Combat Medic Archive
Thread: How many of you plan to drop Combat Medic if 1hp poison goes live?
to rhaspede:
fatalis on our server is one group of pvpers who have at least half their members be cms (i could be wrong, but it seems like it). ask any of them, they consistently poison everybody in sight from 80m within a manner of seconds. however, even though i dont agree with the cm poison, i respect their pvp style because they do whatever it takes to win, in this case mass aoe mind poison.but with the increasing # of cms popping up, and the fact that a group of cms can dominate a much larger group of master elite combat classes, something needs to change.
Sounds like I need to be on Starsider then, cause it sure aint like that on Kauri!
So, the problem seems to be an overwhelming range for posions and such from what I've read so far. How does making them stop at 1 HAM fix that? At least in PvP, (which seems to me to be the only area where this fix will actually make cm's less dangerous) if they can bring you all the way down to 1 HAM from 80m away, it's a simple task of closing to 64m and blasting away with your pistol or whatever you use. Even with your accuracy gone out the window cause you're so far off, you'll land one of those shots. So it doesn't fix the problem of cm's "owning PvP" as so many people put it. Unless I'm missing something.
I decided to craft some poisons tonight. I normally have 255 effect, 97 potency, and 33 range. The new ones I crafted are 156 effect, 97 potency, and 38 range.
This means instead of hitting you for 490 at about 50 meters, I can hit you for a whopping 280 every 8 seconds, from 78 meters. But remember, as soon as I toss that poison, I stop dead for about 3 seconds. That gives most people time to close to 64 meters to shoot me. it also takes about 3-4 ticks instead of 2 ticks. thats 24 to 32 seconds of battle I have to stay alive against BH's, pistoleers, CHs, Commandos, etc rather than 16 seconds.
It's a wash either way, all the range does is give more of a headstart.
Lexy wrote:
It's a wash either way, all the range does is give more of a headstart.
Still doesn't prevent the inevitable huh Lexy? hehe
"anyway, the point im trying to make is that yes i can kill you in one hit, but look what i sacrifice to kill you:"
the reverse can easily be said, even if the 80 meters was true (which from a MCM perspective i beleive you highly exagerating), we sacrifice power for range.
you can incap someone in a single hit of your flamethrower (common knowledge, ie- see it done every day) and if they dont die from that, the first tick offlame generally gets them i think. And the offside is that its a short range.
With our poisons we can throw from a longer range (and trust me, play a combat medic and CHECK your range you can throw) but from my experiance is it less range than a pistol or rifle (whatever that range is, i beleive my range to be half what theirs is, as i experiment only on effectivness)
So bearing that in mind,
compare our damage at point blank to a teras kasi or commando? we both know there is little point bringing numbers into comparing that dont we.
compare our damage at pistol range, to a rifleman / pistoleer / bh. Ok i dont have numbers, but i have NEVER, seen one of these proffessions incap from my poisons, BEFORE they incap me first, so i know their damage output puts mine to shame considering i have master doctor buffs, and they dont.
So the only method i have seen 'reliably' work for a MCM to incap someone is to hit and run, i dont want to break it to you, but every proffession with a gun has the capability to do this to anyone with shorter range than them. Even with our poisons being shorter range than the gun proffessions, we can poison and run, before they get us on target and realise which one we are sometimes, BY THEN, we may be 80 m away. if they react fast however, wedie before they do.
The poisons we use simply do not compare to the damage of any other combat proffession,what sets us apart is the ability to apply, and then forget, we dont need to keep fighting you, you will eventually go down without the aid of a doctor, that is what offsets how slow the poison takes effect. we HAVE to run after applying the poison, or have the ability to stand still and take 16 seconds worth of damage from any of these proffessions.
I would trade my 50 ish? m poison, for a 18 m instant incap any day. Would you trade the reverse? i doubt it somehow
"cms do mind damage (youre dead in 9 seconds w/out a buff) at 80m"
LOL are you stupid or just retarded?
I agree COMPLETERLY with Aynianu. Took the words right out of my mouth. That's why I use the fire and forget tactic. If I'm alone, it's the only tactic I've found to work. Even if I'm buffed on food, spice or doc buffs and somehow managed to afford a suit of super armor with a really good PSG, I still don't belive I can stand there and take 20-30 seconds of damage from anybody other than a novice artisan.
Now apply this style to group play and it becomes very viable. The group attacks the mob or player(s). I throw one posion, then hang about 40m away from the fight and toss ranged heals till the fight is over. If someone goes down, I close to within 12m of them and drag them back to my 40m happy place so they can take their nap safely. I go back to tossing 40m ranged heals. As soon as that mob or player sees me, I'm running for my life because I know that if they catch me, I'm dead.
thanks bender, i just caught my math error too
anyway, the point im trying to make is that yes i can kill you in one hit, but look what i sacrifice to kill you:
almost suicide on my part if youre with anybody else because i have to get with in 16m
an almost guarantee that somebody will have a stim handy to heal you
-- now be aware that as it stands, im comparing cm to commando (which has a very high damage per attack). take any other weapon type, and the gap in power between that weapon and poison becomes even larger. --
with poison as it is now, you have no danger from throwing a stim from 80m, or even 65m, because its out of everybodys range.
and the guarantee that nobody will heal your target (im assuming that the aoe hit multiple people, and the doc cant save you in time, if there even is a doc near and aware of whos poisoned etc.)
on top of that, it can effect a whole group of people, destroying an army in 9+ seconds, at least for 90 seconds, the time it takes to get up from incap. thats if somebody doesnt db you, or shoots you once and hits your mind pool for another incap.
additionally, poison dmg is not blocked by armor, which all other weapons succomb too.
i personally dont think this 1hp dmg is going to cut it, but i understand the need for cms to havesomething bio-ey (not a word i know ) to attack with. ive just always been under the impression that cms excel at healing in a battlefield, and docs excels at healing in a hospital (or more generally when not fighting). now having an offensive move is great, more power to you; but as poison works now, soe gravely misjudged just how powerful the cm would be in pvp.
on a side note im going to bed cause im tired, and thus im not responsible for any spelling/grammar mistakes
We get no resistances to flames. You shoot, we burn.
again, its the range issue. 16m to 80. nobody i know is going to come close to a guy with a flamethrower. im not gonna go so far as say that me running at you 80m away had the poison incap me before i get there, but i will say that a 65m head start in a battle (which generally become very confusingas far aswhere the cms are) is way too large a distance for me to recognize the cm, run at the cm, and have the cm not have the presence of mind torun away.
ok now im going to bed ... really 
With the changes being made to CM componants it "may" be possible to get a 82m ranged poison. Of course this would appear as 41m on the poison itself. Add in the CM range and you might get 82. However this would severilly decrease the effectivness and potency. When I first became an MCM and was playing with the stats of poisons I know that I had awful resist rate precentageson AOE poisions at 75 potency. I had to push it up to 89 or so before they became deadly consistant. The power also suffers. lets say the effectivness is at 125. That would be approx 250 for an MCM. It would take 3-5 ticks, depending on how you have your mind set up, to kill you. Thats 24-40 seconds rather then the 16 seconds of powerful close range poison. It may be possible to craft the "sniper" poisons but your sacrificing an awful lot. Besides in a city it would be difficult to get in 80m LOS.