Combat Medic Archive
Thread: BHs lobbying to get medic skills build into class
ilya...you are definitely the case of the pot calling the kettle black. As it was you crying for docs to get skills unique to CM's.
As for TN we get that at MASTER and its a whopping +10...that hardly "aids the combat medic at getting to injured comrades faster"...but oh wait we have ranged heals you say...I hunt almost everyday all day on endor now...and given how most ppl play...im still running to heal ppl when they get outside my 35-40m...now if every1 and there brother has CH or even a little explore they WILL outpace you. so this isnt an unreasonable request on our part.
On the matter of rez...if you look at other post regarding that issue here(which judging from your post you hadnt) you would also have noticed that a large % of CM's do get wound treatment IV just so they can rez...and what most ppl here wanted was limited version that allowed for a temp rez or a rez with a greatly increased grogginess state.
as for a dropping the dropping the other skills in marksmen...its always fun to find yourself aggro'd in a cbt on some planet and only have a pathetic CDEF pistol to try and use specials...oh wait the 2 taht we had to get..suppresionfire and warningshot...well gee one now has the 30sec timer on it cause its a posture change and the other doesnt always work...so now im using a CDEF pistol and trying to scare some mob off and every 30sec i get to try and use suppresionfire on AND im trying to run away with a measely +10 TN bonus (compared to most mobs +## TN)...going to be very good at astronamy very quickly.
as it stands we only cbt med use from ourcombat medicSUPPORT line...one would assume that means we get some abilities or bonuses that support us in the field to keep us alive and our patients alive as well. thats why we asked for some sort of defense bonuses/skills.
as for the original reason for the posting...i agree i dont think the BH should get any form of healing built into their class...the investigation line should give bonuses similar to the Hunting tree in SCout but give bonuses for NPC/PC races...i mean could you imagine something low like just a +5 bonus at each tier...at master get another +5...they'd have +25 bonus against all NPC/PC races...
The only reason I could see bring the revive skill over to combat medic is the ONLY time revive is used is in combat. Basically people are saying two things at once:
1. Combat Medics are medics for combat and should not be actually fighting; ie: throwing poisons and diseases.
2. Medics should not be able to revive on the battlefield.
In actual battle, doctors do not do CPR, medics do.
You need to pick one. Either we have battlefield healing techniques or the ability to nerve gas a 15m radius.
Kirus wrote:
In actual battle, doctors do not do CPR, medics do.
In actual battle, medics don't heal fallen soldiers completely. But this is a game and it was design decision they made so you do.
If it was more like actual battle, CM would be no different than any other Combat Profession, you'd be able to move, shoot, and communicate with best of em. And all any Medic or CM can do is stop the bleeding and just get people up from incap so they can stagger back to rear of the line for doctors to heal them.
But that wouldnever work for PvP so we got system now where CM are best damage healer bar none, which I actually like better.
And since only place people get poisoned or dieased is on combat too, so shouldn't CM get cure poison/disease? I mean what are the chances that you would still have poison/diease when you go to city to see the doctor?
And if I am not mistaken, only time you need enhace buffs are when you are engaged in combat, so shouldn't CM get enhanced skills too? I mean why would anyone need their HAM buffed sitting around city?
If you ask me, I think Dev should have combined Doctor and CM, but thats all water under the bridge I guess.
Ok I was a BH that was 244 3 and now I am a combat medic that is 2 2 2 2. I think in this post I have some knowledge on both sides of the field. I think the big problem with BH getting medic skills is this. Most BH I know don't even run investigation line. So i would be pretty worthless to most of them. But now they would right..which is good so they would end up using more skill points and give a reason to master profession. Well here is my problem with this. It would end up being uses mostly for PVP. Taking on a Bh is pretty tough in general in PVP. Now he doesn't have to waste the skill points into medic to heal himself in PVP but can just add them to his CH skills. (not saying all would do this but alot would) so now we have a BH with medic abilities, all his normal need specials and tricks (I had them so I know alot of those specials are nice) and he can now call up a graul by his side or whatever big tough pet they want.
On the other side of the token I don't think CM's should get bio weapons...well actually more of them. We have them already just in the form of a grenade. I could agree to more defense bonuses since normally healers are notorious for being first things targetted (well if other team is smart) but I could see that for BH also....cause I don't think they have any bonus's to defense.
IlyaMasool wrote:
Well I don't know where I said CM SHOULDN'T get that you are asking for, I just said GIVEN that CM as healer ask for these combat skills, I think it is reasonable that BH as combatant ask for their Healing skills. I would think most of you would be behind BH on this. If they get their healing, wouldn't it reason that CM are more likely to get their want?
And all you want is +10 TN, same as all BH want is +5 Med, just enough to use Stimp-B. I haven't seen where BH was asking to use Stimp-E or Ranged Stimp-E.
As for bonus to defense, well it make SENSE that you'dNEED it, but it is still a combat skill, and just as it make sense that BH NEED healing skill (and which combat profession don't need healing skill?), it is still healer skill and that is why you are so iffy about it right?
Basically lot of post here seem to point out to me that if BH want to heal, they should go get a healer friend, which makes the most sense since this is MMORPG. And it make sense since BH want healing for PvE.
On same note, if CM want defense, they should have faith in their group mate to keep them alive and mob away from them and it would work in PvE, but this don't work if CM want better combat ability for PvP, since you can't taunt player off healers.
And as for my right to post here, well okay I am only novice CM, so maybe I will wait few more days until I am master CM before Iearn my right to post here,but as a rule I stay heck away from this forum since what I think of CM (that CM is a healer) is so much different than what rest of CM here seem to think, and anything I say just get your goats up.
In last 2 months I've read but didn't reply on most except forhalf dozenfor that reason but I'd say this is forum to talk about issues concerning CM not a "pro-CM" forum.
1) where does it state in the BH description that they get any kind of healing abilities?? All we've asked for is something to warrant having COMBAT as part of our prof's title...as it stands now the Chemical Warfare Specialist title we get at master ranged healing speed is a better fit for what we are.
2) you misread me...we ALREADY get +10 TN at master...whats missing is the bonuses that back up the skill descriptions for combat medic support tree.
3) see #1 and considering their reqs dont include any medic it does make sense that they'd get medic skills out of the blue.
4) agree totally...have helped quite a few BH friends on their missions. all you really need to cover costs of travel is to get missions going the same way.
5) i only PvE...and play with several different huntings on a regular basis and join "pickup" groups as well. and i have faith that the smarter players will watch my back.
6)as for that i never questioned that...if you want to post..post...what i was getting at was the "I guess if you look thru your own wanted list, you sound little like that girl from Chocolate Factory too huh?"
7)im sorry if it sounded that way...but didnt mean this to be a pro-cm post(s) was responding to your prev post and and i did list an alternative to getting healing skills for BH...
Ok they can have novice medic skills, but make it so stim b's can not be used by novice medics, stim bs and all the novice medic dabblers is what really hurts us.
I agree with you in general - bht that does not work in the case of a BH doing a mark.
"What's next? "Well I feel SOE should allow me to heal my own mind wounds like an entertainer as this will allow me to not have to depend on anyone else when my mind is severly wounded"
Yes it could be a slippery slope... fortunatly mind is rarely a problem with marks. The point isn't that we want to solo - the pointis that we have to solo to advance in our profession. Like I said if you want to follow me to the middle of Endor so that you can heal me 2 times (maz) great... but I don't see many people offering. Remeber you won't be able to fight the mark with me when you get there.
"Don't come looking to the medic/doc/CM forums for sympathy"
I did not - I came to eplain my (not all BHers) point of view on a subject that was started in your forum. I didn't come to start a thread. I didn't ask for anything (except the implied "desire" for a discussion).
"You know how we deal with it? We group with others"
Which I would happily do if it was:
- possible
- practical
How can I say this any clearer? We are FORCED to solo. We have NO CHOICE but to solo. Soloing is NOT AN OPTIONAL thing for us. (see the next point before you respond please).
"Bite the bullet and hire a medic/doc/CM to come babysit you on a mission"
Ok, show of hands, how many of you would be willing to take an hour out of your life to heal someone two times? What would it cost? I would expect that I would have to pay the same cost that you can make in an hour - so what can you make in an hour. I have 830K in the bank right now - how many times could I hire you?
"I know plenty of BHs that use their extra points to buy up some CH skills and get a Graul to tank"
Yeah lets encourage more CHers in the game - there are alread a ton of them. Look at it this way - I am going to spend one hour doing a mark... do you want it to be the difficulty of a gnort or chubba? Why would anyone do that? People who think that they have a need to tank in BH missions need to find another way to do it - same for using spice or buffs (assuming you have novice medic).
"You think it's bad getting Investigation XP? Try Medical Crafting."
I used to do that... no thanks. But Iyou do get more than 100 XP an hour (that is what I average at the moment).
I think i want to stay out of this thread for the most part...too many things swirling around with too many undertones...
However, Spiff (if that's a legitimate nickname if not i'm sorry), I think the most constructive way to deal with your legitimate PvE problem with marks is one of two ways:
a. Further tweaking of the mark difficultiesthemselves. This hits your problem head on and doesn't affect PvP at all or how your class balances against others.
b. Ask forfurther separation of your combat abiliities between PvP and PvE. Ask for extra damage of things like EyeShot in PvE. This is a legitimate request of you to deal with your marks that doesn't have implications to PvP class balance.
I think you can get what you want (better abilitiy in investigation) without having to go after medic skills to do it. BHs are soloists, and despite what some others would claim I think BH should be the best or **edit** close to it combat offensiveness. You should specialize in offensive damage to organic targets in much the same way as commandos should specialize in offensive damage to structure and big targets (i'd include large monsters here).
But I don't think you get what you want by asking for more defense (medic) as it bets this maelstrom of swirling notions. As much as I often disagree with Ilya, you enter the murky truth behind argument/sarcasm: rather than each of us wishing to shore up/eliminate our weaknesses, we should seek to better define our strengths and weaknesses.
Jacore
Jacore
"On the matter of rez...if you look at other post regarding that issue here(which judging from your post you hadnt) you would also have noticed that a large % of CM's do get wound treatment IV just so they can rez...and what most ppl here wanted was limited version that allowed for a temp rez or a rez with a greatly increased grogginess state."
Ok... how is that all that much different than a BH getting a lesser heal that ony works on themselves? Here let me turn the resposese to me back on you. You (apparently from what you just said) have enough points to get the rez skill from Doctor. Suck it up and spend the points if you want the skill.
Also, to get back to my point (hey I am a BHer it is all about me right?) how exactly does this proposed skill (the one in my first post on this thread) detract from those in the medical professions? I am not 100% certain if that is the issue or just that you think this is a skill point grab... or both.
I came here asking for far less than that - I think stim-B usage is way too much and would definatly be an offront (sp?) to those in the medical profession.
Sigh... stupidproxy server- I had a nice reply to submit and it died when I sent it in my reply... hope this one is as good.
Eye shot is moving up to master so that won't help with marks (thanks to the 0-X-X-X PvP spammers).
I just came over to present another side of the story and to see the reactions... I wasn't expecting any agreement to come out of it (a boy can dream though can't he? :-) Basically I was after understanding your issues with us getting such a skill.
I said 'like' Eyeshot. I know that version is moving to Master. You're getting another which may or may not be of use at lower levels.
I think for all profession specific difficulties, including our own, we should look for ways to fix it wihtin that field that doens't use fixes that spill over into other venues.
If what you want is a fix to marks, then there's a number of ways to make that happen. I'd support you on that. But while I may be in the minority on this forum, I don't think CMs should rez or cure state. I'm actually fine with the fact we can't survey without extra points.I'm not terribly for the notion of docs or medics healing mind without severe penalties, if they should at all. I think med use is too easy to get across the board (15 or 29 points) given advanced components. But they that's just me.
I think another solution might be to really up the bounties so that taking a medic with you won't be money losing.
Jacore
Just for fun here is the calculation that shows what it would cost me to have a person with novice medic around:
34000 (XP needed) * 100 (money multipler) = 3,4000,000credits
130(number of missions per level) * 4 (number of levels) = 520 missions
4000 credits (average cost of the shuttle/space ship trips) * 520 (missions) * 2 (for each of us) = 4,160,000 credits
1000 (cloning cost) * 520 / 4 (I clone about one in 4 missions)* 2 (I want you want to be cloned too) = 260, 000 credits.
So 3,400,000 - 4,160,000 - 260,000 =-1,020,000 credits.
-1,020,000 credits / 520 = -1961.54
So an average COST to do missions of 2000 credits (oh and I forgot the, say, 150,000 credits for the droids needed to do the missions - server dependent cost though).
The shuttle travel average might actaully be too low as well (but I think it is about right).
Now add into the fact that I would still actually have to pay the person money... and lets say they can make 25000 credits doing missions in an hour * 300 hours = 7, 500, 000 more credits that I need to come up with.So now I lose an average of 16385 credits per mission.
All so I can get 2 * 520 = 1024 heals. Woo hoo. That makes the average heal cost me 8320... and let me guess I'd have to tip you too (that is a joke by the way).
Still think this is a reasonable option?