Combat Medic Archive
Thread: How to defend againest poison and disease
Rikilii wrote:
Why should Doctors be able to 100% counter AOE attacks. Right now, one doctor can effectively cure 5-10 people before any significant damage is done. If one CM is hitting more than that, they need better tactics, or more doctors. If Doctors could counter 100% of what a CM is doing, what's the point of having CMs at all?
What if I told you I also fully support the idea that a CM should be able to fully counter what a Doc does by being able to debuff?
In fact my stance is that Docs and CMs should be the complete counters to each other, except that a straight MCM should have a bit of an edge over a straight MD.
I love it when the opposition makes a point for me.
Zarlor wrote:
The point of "significant" damage.... not sure I buy that one. 5-10 people without significant damage? That Doc will have no mind. Super easy kill.
Zarlor wrote:
Same could then be said for a CM. However, we also know that's going to change in some way when those actions start coming off of a new "specials" bar.
You're kiding me...are they actually doing that?
Krazz wrote:
Achilles467 wrote:
Morganite wrote:
Don't want to give up that fencer/rifleman/tkm template? Then cry me a river, you made a choice to set your character up to be hard to hit for most people, set your character up so those people can hit you, and we wont be able to hurt you instead to couter our diseases. Then you can go to the other people's forums and ask what you can do to stop their defense..
Irony. I'm not a def stacker, never have been. And we all know that the def stacking thing is being "fixed" in the next publish. I've said this 1000 times already, every other skill in this game has a counter that can be bought and sold by an individual person no matter what their character setup is that gives them at least a fighting chance against that skill. This is not the case with CMs.
I swear some of you must have been CHs back in the day before the nerfs.
I totally agree. Lolz.
The really Lolz thing here is you guys want to strip us of half of our effective skills of our class, yet offer us nothing in return. The reason everyone argues with teh nerfcryers, is nobody comes in giving us suggestions of what point we would have if our offensive capabilities were completely able to be negated. If you support allowing an innoculation to give 40% poison/disease resists, I could live with that.
I truly dont understand all the complaints, anyone who uses their wits and brains can beat a combat medic if they choose their terrain well. The problem with the whole concept of "every other skill in this game has a counter that can be bought and sold by an individual person no matter what their character setup" is that you either completely resist our damage, or you dont. The armor has not been made that can resist 100% damage yet that I am aware of.
Oh well since we are allready more off topic as we can be might aswell stay so.
Just yesterday I gave up on CM and switched over to Doc. Yes I know shame on me. I did not do it because I was fed up with the profession or angry... just wanted to try something new. And with about 4 crates of each advanced subcomponent ready you can bet that I will be back one day. But even then I have been a CM for 3 months now and still know what Im talking about
While I was training up Doc I started thinking. Zarlor I am going to need your help just aswell as the help of the Doc Corespondant.
I know there is a skill for CM's to apply Poisons and Deseases in one of the skill boxes. Does the same thing apply to Doc's and cures? I mean do Docs need a certain skill for cureing or do they only need the appropiate "medical use +" ability to use the cure packs?
I agree that right now Doc's are hopelessly overwhelmd when a group gets poisoned. Till now it might have been only a minor problem. Now with the new Geo loot problems are arising. Not only that Docs need up to 3 cures... no we also do over 1000 damage to everyone with each tick. I think I have mentioned in other threads that I am not a big friend of these things.
This brings me to 2 problems/ideas:
1.) I don't understand why the stronger a poison ticks, the more cure's are needed. If you ask me this should be effected by the Potency of the poison and not its effectivness. If this were to change, we would see some real resoning behind experimenting in potency or effectivness. Either it sticks for several cures... or it really hurts. IMO it should never be both!
2.) Cures. I know that Docs' are supposed to be the sate healers of this game. But lets face it: In a big battle you will mainly see medics. One thing I would like to see is the "cure ability" (be it a skill box ability or with medical use) moved to master medic. One thing I don't want to see is a novice medic useing some godly curepacks (see stimm B). The medical use of cure packs should be so high that only Cure pack A's are availible to Master Medics (but still only made by doctors). In combination with the change above that would allow more professions and more people to have the ability to cure.
But what must be clear: A master Medic that is tring to cure a high potency poison with Cure A packs.... must take a long time to do it(several ticks). The only one's that should take out those highly contagous poisons/deseases are the Doctory with high quality Cure packs.
Ok ok.. I'll stop trying to give good ideas allready
Nah seriosly. What do you all think? Could this help? Do you see way of exploiting this? What do you think of Balance? Corespondants of the proffesions: has something like this allready been suggested?
Thanks Asbalon, I’ll keep the info in mind.
Question, will a knockdown attack interrupt a CM’s throwing of poison and disease? Or dose it need to be a kd/daze attack?
First off that's still not nothing (and you'd have 50 points left over on mind with a 450 poison plus the added regen rates.) I'm still trying to figure out what you are driving at, though. Call me stupid if you must, but please outline what the issue here is exactly. You're seem to be trying to argue so many points at once that I'm not sure what the heck the position is that you are trying to defend. (Assuming we are even talking at cross purposes here, mind you. Best I can figure we actually agree on a few things and more than a few things you have issue with are either bugs or should be fixed within the next few months, so I'm not sure what you would be trying to accomplish in arguing on those points.)
BTW, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or anything, here, in case you end up reading this that way. I really am trying ti figure out your position here but have just gotten lost.
Asbalon wrote:
*sigh* New record. Took a grand total of 2 replies before it got off topic
Try that for a topic and you'll se it sticks 
Asbalon wrote:
I know there is a skill for CM's to apply Poisons and Deseases in one of the skill boxes. Does the same thing apply to Doc's and cures? I mean do Docs need a certain skill for cureing or do they only need the appropiate "medical use +" ability to use the cure packs?
Yes, those are also seperate skills like for CMs. I believe /curePoison is Level 2 in the Speed line and /cureDisease is level 4 in teh speed line. (BTW /cureFire, or whatever the new command is, is level 3 in the same line.)
I agree that right now Doc's are hopelessly overwhelmd when a group gets poisoned. Till now it might have been only a minor problem. Now with the new Geo loot problems are arising. Not only that Docs need up to 3 cures... no we also do over 1000 damage to everyone with each tick. I think I have mentioned in other threads that I am not a big friend of these things.
Actually I think the problem with folks doing the 3 cure thing is that a lot of Docs mistakently thought that only the charges stat on their cures was important, when in fact effectiveness on the cure packs is what determines how much effectiveness on a CM DoT it will effect. Some eariler testing I had done suggested that actually Doc Cures are overpowered compared to the same resource/effectiveness-experimented and level poison. In other words it's possible with even a poor resource B packs (experimented on effectiveness) to one-shot cure a mid-level resource C poison. We can do a lot more testing on this int eh near furture since they have finally realized that the effectivness rating on cures was not being displayed and they just changed that on TC for Publish 7.
This brings me to 2 problems/ideas:
1.) I don't understand why the stronger a poison ticks, the more cure's are needed. If you ask me this should be effected by the Potency of the poison and not its effectivness. If this were to change, we would see some real resoning behind experimenting in potency or effectivness. Either it sticks for several cures... or it really hurts. IMO it should never be both!
Well, there is still a need to experiment Potency to overcome the food and loot-drop resitances that are available. And I do know that "immunicty packs" have been brought up as a possible consideration for a Doctor skill which would, presumably, increase medical DoT resistances, hence further enhancing the need to for experimenting potency in order to get a DoT to stick.
The current system would seem to imply that a Cure's effectiveness rating would, in some way, directly remove some amount of effectiveness from a given poison. Thus a lower level cure should be able to at least reduce how much damage a poison will tick for, if nothing else. I can;t say that I have ever really tested that aspect, though. Hopefully the rating listed on the cure packs will help out with figuring out better the exact ratio that this works in.
2.) Cures. I know that Docs' are supposed to be the sate healers of this game. But lets face it: In a big battle you will mainly see medics. One thing I would like to see is the "cure ability" (be it a skill box ability or with medical use) moved to master medic. One thing I don't want to see is a novice medic useing some godly curepacks (see stimm B). The medical use of cure packs should be so high that only Cure pack A's are availible to Master Medics (but still only made by doctors). In combination with the change above that would allow more professions and more people to have the ability to cure.
But what must be clear: A master Medic that is tring to cure a high potency poison with Cure A packs.... must take a long time to do it(several ticks). The only one's that should take out those highly contagous poisons/deseases are the Doctory with high quality Cure packs.
I have definitely seen more than a few suggestions of this nature before. It's not on the Doc issues or Medic Issues list (although you are more than welcome to head over to the Medic forum to pitch it and see if you can get enough support to get it onto the list). The question, of course, comes in the nature of balance. Are medical DoTs so prevalent (and devastating) and Docs so few that it would require this level of change?
While I think they may becoming more prevalent, the devastating side of the issue is the one that is primarily in question, And I think that the only way we can really see how that plays out is to wait for some of the majory changes that we know are already coming, primarily the Combat Revamp. Without more direct knowledge and experience of how the revamp will affect all of the combat systems all we are really doing is shooting in the dark. I mean what if they did move cure poison down to Master Medic, would, because of the revamp, the pendulum swing too far back away from CMs making poisons useless? It's just too hard to tell right now, I think.
(BTWm I hope you are aksing for Corre opinion only because we're all pretty experienced with all three of the primary medical professions, all of us having played them since Beta, and not because we are Corres. I only say that because our personal opinions really matter very little in the overall scheme of what we do in the way of passing along information to the Devs about what our respective forums are pushing as their top issues. Occasionally we do act as a form of focus group, but I can't really say that we have had much discussion with the Devs at all about CM balance issues and I pretty firmly believe that is because they are also waiting to complete the revamp first.)
Kudos to you! *bows*Like I said I just started the Doc professen and had no Idea about how cure packs worked. I find it highly interesting that it took 7 publishes to get effectivness showing
. Maybe you're right and Docs have just been useing the wrong packs till now. That of corse would explain why potency is so high on poisons to begin with (useing advanced comps)... maybe it was intended to be high enough to go against normal B cure packs. With expermientation on the potency it might be lesse efektive.. but even C cure packs don't cure it in one go... very interesting.I agree fully with you when you say we have to see the greater swifts of the combat revamp. Eventhough I try to read about each profession as much as I can, I still have to rely on those that have been here longer. That's why I didn't realy try to propose fixes.. just asking about whats been discussed and what not (abit like brain storming if you will
).I am really looking forward in seeing what the oposing side of the CM's (docs) have to offer and how they work. Then I only have to find a CM I can battle with
Ps: Mild-Breeze-Trooper you are probably right. That topic would definatly stay on topic... now I don't know if I should cry or laugh about that
...
Hello again,
It seems my thread has gotten off the trail a little bit, I do have more information and a better idea of how to surviveand or maybe avoid the DOT. Some of the response's are not what I was looking for, I asked how to counter or survive the DOT without a doctor.
The Doctor, after he heals himself has time to get 2 maybe 3 more people before a tick, if he can completely remove the poison in one attempt, then he will have to do it again as a another poison is applied. This is only if one type of poison were applied, I understand that one tactic is to apply as many poisons as you can so that doctors must start at the health and work their way to the mind. The odds are terribly small that doctor will get to me before he is poisoned again.
To become a doctor myself and get the necessary skills to cure poisons and diseases is 97 points, that is not a viable solution,Also every master commado, master bounty hunters, and rangerwould not have the skillpoints left over to accomplish this (rangers could, they would have 8 points withoutnovice marksmenor brawler) I'm not even sure if I could craft the the stims required myself at the that level, or if I could if they would be strong enough to cure the poison.
If the said arguements in this post and others were applied then one of two things are going to happen: 1) All fighting characters will forced to be terrible doctors, the only people winning out being the doctors who sell the cure poison stims to the dabbler doctors. 2) Combat Medics would be reduced to area heals and practically non existant.
What I asked for were solutions for non-doctors at the current time, if youdo not want offer a solution, or if they are all offered please take the arguements somewhere else.
Thank you again