Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Dev Feedback on medical DoTs...
I know what was stated here, but I also know what was stated on the Correspondent forum. Call it an informed guess, hence my statement that it would be a Safe Assumption, but not necessarilya Sure Thing. I'd call it a pretty darned safe assumption, though, and just leave it at that.
KJFett wrote:
He said
The Devs feel that Poison and Disease damageis relatively balanced and there's not as much reason to change them.
I don't see anything about 75% there. Nor do I see it say anything about PVP. Nor does it say they wont change them...just that there is not as much reason to (meaning there still is some reason to). Relatively balanced to what? each other? PVE? No one can honestly say the 300% increase over the other professions 75% decrease is balanced. Give me a break!
How about this.
You dont get the 75% nerf, I do.
If you dont get it, I dont want it, that means you can have your 600dmg tick poison, il take my 2-3000dmg per second that doesnt (~170 accuracy+30-40%) miss.
Sure, the range is a problem, no doubt about that, I was pop'd at 92m today inside a bloody building, yep, one poison, incap.
A cm with no combat skills comes up and death blows.
Leme tell ya, if they say that Cm poison is balanced, then firstaid needs to cure poison, no questions asked.
The fact that you have to take up an elite profession (which requires a basic one) just to combat the CM ability is unbalanced. It would be different if it was say, a Mstr medic ability, or a Novice doc ability, but the fact that it isnt, its a specilization, and the fact that you can keep reapplying, and reapplying, and reapplying, faster then it can be cured, is unbalanced.
Heres another one for ya! I wear say, composite, Thats a breething system skippy(On the helmet, dont play blind please), why should some poison effect me? If not complete immune, atleast partial.
I use to play baseball, at 64 meters, there isnt any way in god's green earth you can nail someone with a baseball every time.
How can you throw a glowing ball, say, just for arguments sake 64 meters, yet only shoot that with a ranged weapon?
News flash, Handguns work past 64meters.
For the sake of argument, I will ignore the fact of Health and action poisons, Keep them, even at the far overpowered damage rate.
What i am annoyed by is MIND POISON.
Health and action, they can be healed, at the cost of mind. Mind, cant be healed, save by, ohh look at that bloody profession, A CM. Even still I belive the mind cost and wounds are enough to make it where you get a one timer or two? i could be mistaken, but no CM on my server can mind heal more then twice from what iv seen. Now, if mind damage was toned down to say, 25%, since it is an unhealable pool (Save for jedis) then, well, I woudlnt have any problem with that, asuming buffs, food, and a decent character setup, you "could" 'survive' a mind poison. We will leave out the fact of riflemen can nail your mind ignoring almost all armor, shh! (No complaints on that, riflemen arnt overpowered)
I am an advocate for the Combat Medics. As a matter of routine I report problems that are bugs but would hurt CM if they were fixed (range greater than 64m, Z-axis and AoE, LoS issues, etc.) A 75% Pvp reduction is not one of those issues. If anything, medical DoT damage should stay the same in PvP and multiplied 4 times in PvE.
Ok, so doing 600dmg on giant canyon krayts is ok? Every other class does, what, 60 save commandos and riflemen(Ap3)?
1) Convince the majority of CM that a 75% PvP reduction is the way to go
Lets see, thats like convincing people to fight aginst something, then say its balanced.
2) Convince myself that a 75% PvP reduction would help CMs
Your a cm, why would you flame yourself (Unless your a fair-minded person) and state the obveious, that all OTHER classes see (Cm's are overpowered to be mild). I would be willing to bet, you run around throwing dots and diseases (all of what, 2 seconds?) and wait in your 80% composite for the ticks to kick in, laughing at anything that tries to survive.
3) Convince either myself or the CM community that not having a 75% PvP reduction means we are overpowered.
Lose that train of thought? seems like a half-complete idea to me, il help you out, in green. There, that wasnt so bad?
Read over that, and before you jump up and say "Im the this, Im the that" then go play other classes, see their damage, and remove foot from thy mouth.
All comments and/or opinions are based on PvP with the exception of the Krayt refrence. (Anti pve flame)
Vincentarasin wrote:Leme tell ya, if they say that Cm poison is balanced, then firstaid needs to cure poison, no questions asked.
The fact that you have to take up an elite profession (which requires a basic one) just to combat the CM ability is unbalanced. It would be different if it was say, a Mstr medic ability, or a Novice doc ability, but the fact that it isnt, its a specilization, and the fact that you can keep reapplying, and reapplying, and reapplying, faster then it can be cured, is unbalanced.
Also, one other thing. Why should a BASIC profession (medic) be able to counter a HYBRID profession (Combat Medic). You are saying, that someone who spends about half of the skillpoints I spent, be able to completely ignore something (my main offensive weapon at that too) that I can do.
Pahdbacca wrote:
KJFett wrote:
PVE and PVP damage is supposed to be different, why on earth would they feel that the CM was balanced in PVE and still balanced with a 300% increase in DMG in PVP? Why don't you ask them specifically about the lack of a 75% PVP reduction?
I am an advocate for the Combat Medics. As a matter of routine I report problems that are bugs but would hurt CM if they were fixed (range greater than 64m, Z-axis and AoE, LoS issues, etc.) A 75% Pvp reduction is not one of those issues. If anything, medical DoT damage should stay the same in PvP and multiplied 4 times in PvE.
Because I am an advocate for the CM community, if you can either
1) Convince the majority of CM that a 75% PvP reduction is the way to go
or
2) Convince myself that a 75% PvP reduction would help CMs
or
3) Convince either myself or the CM community that not having a 75% PvP reduction
then I will go forth and ask the Dev's to re-examine PvP damage. Otherwise I will not. If CMs are sooo powerful in PvP, start grinding out Master Medic, get your combat exp for ranged support, the work your way to Master CM to get these "UBER" Dots. If you don't feel it's worth the effort, then quit bugging CMs about a 75% PvP reduction.
If you don't thing DoT damage is never brought up in the correspondent forums, then you are mistaken. I can't post everyting that goes on in those forums (which might be less than you think) and the devs are kinda busy to sit planted in front of the forums. I saw the chance to report back some feedback andI did so.
Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 01-27-2004 09:15 PM
I would expect you to defend your peers as you have stated, it is sad that you can not see past that though and see that the Combat Medics did not receive the damage reduction as intended, and thus ask the devs to make it right to balance the game.
Is it really to muchfor you toask the devs if the current lack of a 75% reduction in PVP combat damage is intended? And is it really to much to ask that the Devs post this for all to know in a thread created by a "red name"
That would solve it all right there. If the devs were to make that thread it would all go away I am sure. Until that happens, the threads will continue as more and more people turn CM, or get killed by the CM with huge poisons and diseases.
Reality is....We don't have to convince the CMs that something is wrong. The CMs are the ones with the tarnished image in the other players eyes. Its your job to clean that image up. Balancing the PVP damage would go along way in that regard.Balance is not CM=100% and everyone else=25% in PVP.
I'll just address one point in this since theothers have already been beaten to death.
TempestSquad01 wrote:
Vincentarasin wrote:
Sure, the range is a problem, no doubt about that, I was pop'd at 92m today inside a bloody building, yep, one poison, incap.
Yes that is a bug that needs to be fixed. You have never seen other bugs or heard of them?
A cm with no combat skills comes up and death blows.
He has no skill because he plays cm right? Haha well thats what you get for being overt, its war, tactics have always been dirty.
The fact that you have to take up an elite profession (which requires a basic one) just to combat the CM ability is unbalanced. It would be different if it was say, a Mstr medic ability, or a Novice doc ability, but the fact that it isnt, its a specilization, and the fact that you can keep reapplying, and reapplying, and reapplying, faster then it can be cured, is unbalanced.
So basically you want combat medics nerfed completely so they can't do anything but heal right?
Heres another one for ya! I wear say, composite, Thats a breething system skippy(On the helmet, dont play blind please), why should some poison effect me? If not complete immune, atleast partial.
If you want to compare everything to real life; how does armor stop infections or biological weapons? It doesn't.
Did you not read his post when you made that comment? compare everything to real life? He was talking about composite armor...which is in the game not RL. Comp armor does have a enclosed sealedhelmet just as ubese does. Both have 1 to 2 hour oxygen cannisters as well as scrubbers designed to filter out toxins in the books. So yes it can stop infections and bio weapons in the books, and should in the game as well.
I use to play baseball, at 64 meters, there isnt any way in god's green earth you can nail someone with a baseball every time.
It is a game, just like baseball. Baseball has just been around longer to work out all the fixes.
How can you throw a glowing ball, say, just for arguments sake 64 meters, yet only shoot that with a ranged weapon?
Because this is a video game, if you don't like it send an email to sony.
News flash, Handguns work past 64meters.
News flash, this isn't counter-strike.
Vincentarasin wrote:
How about this.
You dont get the 75% nerf, I do.
If you dont get it, I dont want it, that means you can have your 600dmg tick poison, il take my 2-3000dmg per second that doesnt (~170 accuracy+30-40%) miss.
600dmg a tic psn? wow, wish i made stuff that was that good...and the tick is only every 6-10 seconds. in that time, WITH your PvP reduction you can hammer out a solid 1500 dmg without breaking a sweat. why do you need the 75% reduction? b/c w/o it noone would be able to withstand 1 shot. Poisons CANNOT incap, and do not do anywhere near what dmg you can do.
Sure, the range is a problem, no doubt about that, I was pop'd at 92m today inside a bloody building, yep, one poison, incap.
Incapped from a poison at 92m? hmmm when was this? i'm thinking mid-late september, when all that was in effect. although a few 92m poisons still exist and i'll even give you that you can sometimes be hit when inside a building (though this should've been fixed by the dev's by now...), THERE IS NO WAY TO BE INCAPPED BY A POISON AS OF NOW.
A cm with no combat skills comes up and death blows.
Leme tell ya, if they say that Cm poison is balanced, then firstaid needs to cure poison, no questions asked.
You sound really sore for one who also hits the mind pool, buddy-remember that bit about "unlhealable"? you hit it too, like it or not.
The fact that you have to take up an elite profession (which requires a basic one) just to combat the CM ability is unbalanced. It would be different if it was say, a Mstr medic ability, or a Novice doc ability, but the fact that it isnt, its a specilization, and the fact that you can keep reapplying, and reapplying, and reapplying, faster then it can be cured, is unbalanced.
That would be a doctor specialization...just as a rifleman can hit mind and a commando can set you on fire...its one of the things that makes a profession unique-so just learn to live with it.
I use to play baseball, at 64 meters, there isnt any way in god's green earth you can nail someone with a baseball every time.
I beg to differ. First off, a CM is skilled in throwing stims and poisons. It's not like you wake up one day and can throw something 60m...just like anything else, it takes time and practice (eg xp in this case)-brings to mind the "ranged healing distance" tree. yes, you slowly work up that and can throw farther and farther.
And if you must pull RL into this game, think about this: A year or two ago Mariner Ichiro Sazuki threw a baseball from far right-field to nab a runner moving to third. he got the out and it was one of the highlight plays of the year. Now, maybe it's just me, but i'm a big mariner's fan, living in Seattle and all, and i know the size of safeco field. I would say that that throw went at the very least 50m (~150ft) and the field is pretty big, being near 300ft out for a HR...Ichiro was pretty deep in Right field when he made that play, so i would say that he was AT LEAST 192ft out, which is convieniently aproxamately 64m
How can you throw a glowing ball, say, just for arguments sake 64 meters, yet only shoot that with a ranged weapon?
Good question, try asking the dev's. For argument's sake i will say that b/c most wps in SWG are energy bolt based, the bolt fizzles out and has no effect after that.
News flash, Handguns work past 64meters.
Yes, but if we had handguns that fired laser bolts maybe they wouldn't
For the sake of argument, I will ignore the fact of Health and action poisons, Keep them, even at the far overpowered damage rate.
What i am annoyed by is MIND POISON.
Hmmm...i'm guessing this is because this is the pool that your major ham costs are taken from... you might have a different opinion if your major costs came from the action pool (see carbineer, pikeman...)
Health and action, they can be healed, at the cost of mind. Mind, cant be healed, save by, ohh look at that bloody profession, A CM. Even still I belive the mind cost and wounds are enough to make it where you get a one timer or two? i could be mistaken, but no CM on my server can mind heal more then twice from what iv seen. Now, if mind damage was toned down to say, 25%, since it is an unhealable pool (Save for jedis) then, well, I woudlnt have any problem with that, asuming buffs, food, and a decent character setup, you "could" 'survive' a mind poison. We will leave out the fact of riflemen can nail your mind ignoring almost all armor, shh! (No complaints on that, riflemen arnt overpowered)
HA! as a master cm, i know for a fact that even though the would amount is (sometimes unbearably) high, i can heal mind a good 10+ times before my secondaries drop below 200, and become obsolete. So the nextquestion i would pose is this: what are the secondary mind stats on the CM's on your server? And for the record, if you took the time to find out that a better/more easily healable mind system is in the works you wouldn't worry about this. and again poison DOES NOT incap (i feel like a broken record i've said this so many times over the past 2-3 days...).
I am an advocate for the Combat Medics. As a matter of routine I report problems that are bugs but would hurt CM if they were fixed (range greater than 64m, Z-axis and AoE, LoS issues, etc.) A 75% Pvp reduction is not one of those issues. If anything, medical DoT damage should stay the same in PvP and multiplied 4 times in PvE.
Ok, so doing 600dmg on giant canyon krayts is ok? Every other class does, what, 60 save commandos and riflemen(Ap3)?
Oof. lowblow here. again to get a poison that can do even near 600dmg is terribly hard, near impossible i would say. And i also have to ask you how many CM's you see going up against the GCK's? and as a marksman with pistols 4 i could do 150-200dmg easy, even on a GCK.
1) Convince the majority of CM that a 75% PvP reduction is the way to go
Lets see, thats like convincing people to fight aginst something, then say its balanced.
2) Convince myself that a 75% PvP reduction would help CMs
Your a cm, why would you flame yourself (Unless your a fair-minded person) and state the obveious, that all OTHER classes see (Cm's are overpowered to be mild). I would be willing to bet, you run around throwing dots and diseases (all of what, 2 seconds?) and wait in your 80% composite for the ticks to kick in, laughing at anything that tries to survive.
Grrr...you're walking on thin ice, bud. As a Master of the CM prof, i still have to wait a good 4 sec before i can throw a second poison, stim, ect. And i could easily modify this paragraph and post on the Rifleman forum, because i would bet that many ppl other than myself feel similarly about the Rifleman prof (600-1k mind dmg every 1 sec? talk about balance issues...)
3) Convince either myself or the CM community that not having a 75% PvP reduction means we are overpowered.
Lose that train of thought? seems like a half-complete idea to me, il help you out, in green. There, that wasnt so bad?
owch man, don't flame the "doc" correspondent like that, they're one of the best i've seen-ever. You really need to take some time to think before you type, otherwise you just make ppl like me pissed correcting you. I spend 90% of my time posting correcting ppl over myths and legends and crooked views they have, and i hate it. i get to post maybe 1 thread that actually gives support to another idea or posting a new one, b/c there are so many "flame" posts by uninformed ppl that need to be corrected.
Read over that, and before you jump up and say "Im the this, Im the that" then go play other classes, see their damage, and remove foot from thy mouth.
BTW, many of the ppl who post ARE in other classes, not just CM. Why? because w/ justcm you can't incap, and you can't do **edit** damage at all. I am pistoleer and going smuggler. I have also done other profs on other chars, so don't tell me to "go see their damage", i see it EVERY DAY. Before you post again make sure you have the correct info on a prof, and by all means don't flame w/o reason and solid evidence, chances are you have ahorribly skewed opinion and you have no reason to post when you have never truly experienced a profession from a different angle. I know i don't go flaming the Rifleman forums, i expect you to have similar respect for the forums you post on also. Next time you decide to cry nerf on a profession, you'd better have reasons that a) aren't bugs and b) aren't opinion and one-time happenings.
I have spent so much time correcting flames like this it makes me sick. Please do not post just to flame another profession. It wastes my time, the time of others, and most of all it just pisses people off.
Let me get this straight.... you are upset cuz we can dish out 70 damage a second?
You want to reduce that to 18 damage a second...You really think that is fair?
This is rediculous. Ther is no way that medical DoTs are going to get a 75% damage reduction.
If you want realism...what are the chances that a Doc that made a poison antidote that can cure every engineered poison. If things were real, give a specific pack 1 chance in 4 to cure.
Composite armor is an enclose suit with a breating apparatus good for 2 hours? Ok, after 2 hours you need to go to an Master Armorsmith to use a repair tool on your helmet...with the same chances of success, damage, or destroying it.
You had to master Medic and take one line of Doctor to get a poison or disease cure....Newsflash...CMs had to master Medic to throw those poisons. You know how effective poisons are without mastering CM? Not very.
1) Devs said they thing damage is balanced.
2) you want to argue damage output, ok, we'll argue damage output.
3) you want to argue realism ..... in a STAR WARS .......GAME? You figure out how to make a lighsaber or throw force lighning in RL and then we'll argue that.
Until then, learn some tactics in PvP and suck it up.
There are bugs in the game that are VERY bad for PvP. 75% damage reduction isn't one of them. Trying to imply that CMs are dishonerable or their image is 'tarnished' because they don't think that little bit of offensive ability given to them should be reduced? That smacks of immaturity at the best.
It's sad that you guys are conditioned to cry 'nerf' every time you lose a game of marbles. Sometimes you are the Louisville Slugger, somethimes you are the ball. Get used to it.
/salute to all the valiant CMs that have defended our class against thread after thread from the evil nerf herders.
you did it guys good work 
But wait I thought you said there was nothing combat related like toxins or infections in the expanded universe that would constitute the existance of combat medics. Me thinks someone may be making up ficticious information to solidify his already errant pointss
KJFett wrote:
Did you not read his post when you made that comment? compare everything to real life? He was talking about composite armor...which is in the game not RL. Comp armor does have a enclosed sealedhelmet just as ubese does. Both have 1 to 2 hour oxygen cannisters as well as scrubbers designed to filter out toxins in the books. So yes it can stop infections and bio weapons in the books, and should in the game as well.
PD = Poison and Disease
PD itself isn’t the problem. It’s the area mind PD that is the issue here. You can take every other form of PD and nobody really cares about. You can’t heal mind really so that when DEVS look at poison, it’s a bit unfair to consider mind area PD balance by looking at the total balance of PD overall.
The problem is that it seriously hurts PVP, you CM’s have to see this. When 50 people on each side, show up to battle, this use to be tons of fun when CM’s pretty much sucked. The battles lasted awhile and once again, it was tons of fun. When PD first became strong, I know a number of people didn’t want CM’s around, even on their side because it took the fun out of it. Why would u want to see the other side to fall quickly when only ends the fun. Now and for awhile, CM’s are accepted because everyone figure the other side has one, which is probably true.
Let me explain this in another form now. When you sit at your base during vulnerable times, how many of the players there are actually hoping that the enemy shows up? Probably just about all of them… Those that sit there know it’s pretty **edit** boring just waiting. So the question remains, why would you use this mind poison knowing that it’s only going to end the battle sooner and you’re going to sit there bored again soon after?
I mean, isn’t the point of the game to have fun? I mean really now, in logical is there really anything you can do to end the war or actually hurt the other side? You can’t stop the other side from building bases, getting faction points for a base isn’t that hard so if you can’t really win the war, isn’t the only thing left to have fun?
Why are people crying nerf? Most aren’t because they are jealous of the power. It’s because they just want to have more fun and make these PVP battles longer lasting and tons of fun again.
So for all the CM’s, you really need to ask yourself. Is applying poison to 10-20 people at a time really THAT much fun that you’d rather sit around waiting being bored again shortly after u throw it? Also think about, are you CM because it’s something you really want to be, or is it that mind PD is so out of control that the only way to fight PD is with PD.
I think you all should really consider making this an issue for yourself, not because everyone else wants it, but because you should want it also.
Kuurus – Former Master CM