Combat Medic Archive
Thread: -----To those whinning CM is over powered-----
P__Day wrote:
What i said was unbalanced was the fact that the CM debuffs can be applied without breaking paralyze, its about the same as a smuggler being able to use /lowblow without breaking concussion shot, its the reason the disarm/startle got nerfed. The same reason force cloak is heading right for a nerf. The same reason force speed and doctor speed buffs are getting reduced. Its used in combination with other things doc speed buffs are not unbalanced by themselves, but forcespeed +adrenaline buffs +mushroom pie + speed tapes + more speed tapes its very unbalacing.
I'm sorry but who exactly said the following:
"Now a 4-0-0-0 doc/cm can heal just as much as the jedi could pre nerf, which is unbalanced when combined with other templates, like for instance m.bh/m.rifleman, whom in many cases can outlast a full forcebar, doc/cm ended up getting the heals jedi used to have which they themselves claimed were overpowered. Myself on my cm/rifleman can tank 20+ pickets in recon armor untill my mind runs out simply by spamming heals on myself, just like i used to do on my jedi. Imo both jedi healing and doc healing needs to be kept at the levels they are but both timers put at 4 seconds, that would be the closest we could get to balance.
The current inbalance isnt that doctors or cms can heal to much, its that they can heal themselves to much for to long, i dont want doc or cm nerfed because the heals are keeping me alive on my cm along with my group, but having a single doc stand toe to toe with 3 other players because he can outheal their damage untill they run out of action is not balanced."
And
"The issue isnt a m.cm or m.doc healing more than 4-0-0-0 healer, its than someone with just 4-0-0-0 cm or doc can heal equally to a master with a cheap be shirt."
Your main focus up until recently has been how over-powered HEALING was. Now you seem to be backpeddling and saying that is not the problem but the debuffs not breaking paralyze is! So what is it man?
P__Day wrote:
Its pretty much the same as when me and a coupleof friendsbegan stacking thyroidruptures, lowblow and warcry to put people at -120 combat speed, im sure that is going to get nerfed sometime to.
Stacking state effects like that should not be allowed. Not arguments there.
P__Day wrote:
IMO though it would be great if jedi got separated from non jedi totally, since that way no jedi would cry nerf on jedi and jedi wouldnt cry nerf on non jedi and we would have jedi crying nerf on eachother and non jedi crying nerf on eachother in peace.
Yeah, I agree! I would love a Jedi free server. However, SOE already made it clear it wont do this. Doesnt surprise me. Jedi is SOE's marketing hook to help bring up subscriptions. Alienating such a player base would be a dumb move on Sony's part financially speaking.
P__Day wrote:
Oh and let me make it very clear for you to IM NOT HERE TO CRY NERF ON CM'S IM HERE TO ANNOY HYPOCRITICAL BASTARDS WHO ONLY SEE SOMETHING AS OVERPOWERED WHEN ITS SOMEONE ELSE.
First, *you* need to get *your* story straight and pick a position. Is it UbEr healing, debuffs not breaking paralyze, or state stacking that is preventing you from killing those pesty MBH/MCM and MBH with CM any faster then 12 secs?
You're trying to make a case how CM needs to be balanced but you backpeddle and contradict yourself every post along the way. CM is perfectly balanced in PvP. There are many ways for the right Jedi and non-Jedi template to beat it. The *only* place CM becomes a little unbalanced is in PvE (IE soloing ancient Krayts). However that can be easily fixed w/o in any way touching CM (just give Krayts res to states and/or up its regen).
You may be a CM and you may have good intentions but you've made no case. While I cannot speak for others, I'm all for balance of *all* professions whether it is my chosen profession or not. What I'm *not* for is pandering to whinny crying little Jedi who get pissed when they cant own everything in PvE and PvP. There should always be classes (both Jedi and non-Jedi) that offer advantages as well as disadvantages. Right now I dont see anything fundamentally wrong with CM, At the VERY most one can up the mind cost of some specials for templates that dabble. However, as far as full MCM I dont see a nerf in any form being necessary.
Message Edited by SomeUser on 07-23-2005 12:22 AM
Vezek /salute
"If they can be fooled, they can be killed." LMAO!The Jedi do make me laugh.
Take my template for example. I'm a MCH first and foresmost. This is beautifully laced with more bugs than a NHS hospital ward and now the devs have decided to make it so that my pets no longer take most of the aggro so the big bads all come after me (even tho I haven't even done anything yet)
My other template is MCM, which I took up to assist friends in PvE and also to heal my pets during battle (yes... I'm a big softy) 
. I have a line in BH for the weapons only.
Redheadedminx wrote:
Can they please stop being so bloody selfish and consider themselves lucky their lightsabers and most of their other Jedi tricks aren't bugged so bad as some other peoples professions are. I bet the moment the poor Smugglers get a break in this game, they'll want something in their profession changed because it upsets them.
Exactly! And that is where my main dislike of Jedi comes from. They are bloody selfish little children who cant stand it when they arent 100% all-powerful when compared to any other profession.
My post was made to illustrate how post CU the combat system was made to be along the line of paper, scissors, rock. One type of template might work well against another yet work poorly against another. Some Jedi (and other players as well) seem to think because one type of template gives them a hard time there is something wrong with that template!
This issue is compounded with Jedi because they feel that their profession should be fundamentally better then ANY other profession no matter what the template. This is an error.
Any non-Jedi template can be beaten by the R-I-G-H-T Jedi template but not A-L-L non-Jedi templates can be beaten by any Jedi template!!!!!!!!!!!
Those Jedi whinners who cry over MBH/MCM or MBH with healing dont seem to want to understand the problem isnt that Jedi isnt powerful enough or that CM or Doctor is overpowered, it is the non-Jedi templates is a counter to their specific Jedi template. This is working as intended! If a Jedi cant hang with a CM then pick up the MH in Jedi. Granted other templates will now kick your ass but that is how this game is suppose to work. Having one template kick EVERYONE's ass is lame. If that is the kind of player one is go buy KOTOR. This game is not KOTOR
Anyhow, being objective the only unbalance in CM is that certain high level creatures (like ancient Krayts) are being soloed again. It is this author's opinion that NO profession (Jedi or non-Jedi) should be able to solo certain high end creatures. Therefore the right thing to do is to just re-examine high end creatures and tactics that certain professions are using to solo them and make it more difficult for those tactics to be successful.
Then no one is NERFED yet the overall integrity of the game remains intact.
Message Edited by SomeUser on 07-23-2005 11:37 PM
I doubt a template exists that could consistently top MLS/MDef/Healer3000/Enhancer2000 if everything else were equal. With all these crappy post-CU sabers in use I'm sure it has happened more than once, but if the other player were also gimped by his weapon the fight would still favor the MLS/MDef/Healer3000/Enhancer2000.
To Jedi: Don't listen to anyone telling you that you need Total Heal to counter MBH/MCM templates. The template above will beat the best of them consistently if your equipment and skill (behind the keyboard) are even close to theirs. That said, don't complain when you and your terrible post-CU saber fall to someone with months more experience and a weapon enhanced with 200+ damage Krayt Tissue (for example).
I think it is crazy that whenever some people lose they assume it is because their template is underpowered or their opponent's is overpowered. Equipment and skill behind the keyboard play a huge part in the outcome of the duels. A friend and I with very similar templates dueled the same jedi. I had never fought a jedi with the template before while my friend was very experienced with it. I suffered an embarrassing defeat within a few minutes while my friend strung the fight out for over 30 minutes before finally falling. My equipment wasn't quite as good as his, but the real difference between the fights was skill and experience behind the keyboard. You could have given me five supposed "i-win" buttons, and I still would not have done as well as he did.
Message Edited by TheOtherDude on 07-24-2005 01:52 AM
Message Edited by TheOtherDude on 07-24-2005 01:52 AM
TheOtherDude wrote:
I doubt a template exists that could consistently top MLS/MDef/Healer3000/Enhancer2000 if everything else were equal. With all these crappy post-CU sabers in use I'm sure it has happened more than once, but if the other player were also gimped by his weapon the fight would still favor the MLS/MDef/Healer3000/Enhancer2000.
To Jedi: Don't listen to anyone telling you that you need Total Heal to counter MBH/MCM templates. The template above will beat the best of them consistently if your equipment and skill (behind the keyboard) are even close to theirs. That said, don't complain when you and your terrible post-CU saber fall to someone with months more experience and a weapon enhanced with 200+ damage Krayt Tissue (for example).
I think it is crazy that whenever some people lose they assume it is because their template is underpowered or their opponent's is overpowered. Equipment and skill behind the keyboard play a huge part in the outcome of the duels. A friend and I with very similar templates dueled the same jedi. I had never fought a jedi with the template before while my friend was very experienced with it. I suffered an embarrassing defeat within a few minutes while my friend strung the fight out for over 30 minutes before finally falling. My equipment wasn't quite as good as his, but the real difference between the fights was skill and experience behind the keyboard. You could have given me five supposed "i-win" buttons, and I still would not have done as well as he did.
First, Jedi are suppose to be 1.5x more powerful then non-Jedi if all other things are equal. Non-Jedi BH can winhowever ifthey exhibit better tactics and/or have better equipment. A skilled PvP BH with sound tactics and good equipment *will* consistently win over a "lesser" MLS/MD/H3000/E2000.
Unless you have a lot more experience in SWG then your forum reg date indicates and better experience with wide varieties of non-Jedi BH temps as well as Jedi temps do yourself a favor and refrain from offering your recommended Jedi temp. That isnt a flame and I'm not trying to be mean to you. However, just because your friend/guild Jedi told you what kicks ass doesnt mean it actually kicks ass
As a SWG player since September of 03' and a MBH for the last 2 months I've seen all kinds of Jedi of all skill levels fall to MBH... True, it usually isnt a "all things equal fight" but rather a combo of "first strike" and a bomb droid or two that does em in.
Remember, true MBH dont rely just on debuffs or weapon damage! They use EVERYTHING to their advantage including hiding bomb droids in various terrain, using crated bomb droids to instant pull while **in** combat, sneaking up and striking under cover, pre-stacking food/drink/spices, Doctor buffs, health crystals,in addition to taking full advantage of high damage Krayt weapons (rifles that do 1200+ dam), armor break sliced armor, as well as various armor and clothes tapes.
Some of the most deadly PvPers in SWG are BH because as a BH all things are *not* equal and we are use to it. Going up MD for Jedi isnt the only counter to MBH/MCM nor does it guarantee you a win. It all depends on the Jedi's skill level and what items he has access too (As well as the BH skill level! As you've shown you got your butt handed to you in a few secs while your friend lasted over 20mins). Obviously a Jedi whocries about MCH or CM being "over-powered" isnt the best of players so for *them* MD might be the way to go.
In fact, it was an MLS/MDef/Healer3000/Enhancer2000 that handed me my ass. For that reason, I have a TON of experience against that template. It issort ofa guild pass-time to try to defeat that jedi. We haven't even done it as a group of 2, yet, but I'm sure that is just because there is only one person in our guild that can match the MLS/MDef/Healer3000/Enhancer2000 in terms of equipment and skill behind the keyboard.
I don't anticipate this thread ever becoming anything more than you telling me I'm wrong and then me responding that I'm right. If someone could post a template that compares to MLS/MDef/Healer3000/Enhancer2000 either overall, against bounty hunters in general, or against MBH/MCM templates, I'd appreciate itas creating templates is sort of a hobby of mine.
Anyway, I'll leave the thread on a positive note. Here area couple tips that aren't really out in the open:
Jedi: Don't underestimate the usefulness of PSGs. I know they take up the same slot as your uber-1337 belt with all those attachments, but a PSG will allow 15% less ranged energy damage to get through (That's for a MDefender. It's significantly more useful to those without MDefender). That would have to be some belt to make up for the significantlyhigher damage you are taking. You can easily test how much of a difference your belt makes, but I canpromise you+15LS Speed attachment combined with a +15LS Accuracy attachmentisn't going to raise youractualDPS (seeverbose combat log) by more than10%. It will probably actually make much less of a difference than that. Put your best attachments on a hat, and strap a PSG around your waist.A PSG willprobably help you more against those pesky riflemen in mass PvP because a lot of bounty hunterschoose a weapon for thekineticdamage. That said, plenty of bounty hunters do use energy damage (basically everyonewho uses a rifle deals energy damage).
Healer/Bounty Hunters: Try using Ranged Shot+Placed Shot+Speed Powerupas your standard damage combo. Advanced Critical Shot+Improved Head Shot(for example)+SAC Powerup will deal about 10-20% more damage, but the beauty of Ranged Shot+Placed Shot+Speed Powerup is in the incredibly quick cooldown times. There's nothing worse than launching off a Critical Shot only to have to burn an instant stim while waiting for the cooldown timer. Also, note that SAC is much less of a factor with Ranged Shot+Placed Shot+Speed Powerupso you could have your weaponsmith experiment for higher damage instead of SAC and possibly cut into the10-20% of damage you lost by switching to your new damage combo. Don't forget about your high-damage specials, though. With a speed power up they are all the more deadly when used as a quick blitz. One other thing to be aware of, with a quick-firing weapon (like a pistol)equipped with SpeedPoweruptwo damage specials may not be enough. You could try adding in a third low-SAC special such as Aimed Shot, but that complicates things and adds significantly to the SAC cost. For that reason, this tip works best with rifles.
I hope someone found one of those useful
I really guess that folks don't seem to get the *new* system. It seems that on every forum someone is screaming nerf, blah blah blah.... The new system is meant to allow dabbling, there are strengths and weaknesses to all templates. If you choose to pick up some healing then you sacrifice DPS, accuracy, speed. Whether this is important to the player is a choice. Yes now we have more choices so what's the problem? If you cannot win in today's game (PvP) then it is sad, jedi or not. No one should *expect* to win, be thankful that we all have a chance to win. That is truly balance!
Xak
He who teaches also learns