Combat Medic Archive

oh and just to show u that im not a hypocrite, if mind damage is removed from the game i fully except and support that mind dots be removed from the CM class...

i think its totally unfair that we can abuse a unhealable pool as well

What you don't get is that your premise is perfect, "there needs to be a counter for everything," but your reasoning is flawed.

The counter for Medic/Doctor is Rifleman.

What you are proposing is to REMOVE the only counter that exists for medics. Perfectly reasonable, since you are, yourself a medic, but you might as well be a TKA complaining that he can't hit at range, a Carbineer complaining that he doesn't shoot as fast as a Pistoleer, or a BH asking to keep knockdown AND make his bounty targets easier. Of course you want to be able to heal all damageable pools, but the fact that you CAN'T is what makes your class fair and un-uber. The complaint is that basically there is something that medics can't heal... but the reasoning, that there are wounds a sniper can inflict which could not reasonably be recovered from, is right on the money.

Besides, every once in a while, a MOB will hit your mind pool. Do you want to remove that ability too? I understand that your complaint is about PvP, but realize that there are much bigger problems with PvP than riflemen. I've seen a single BH mow down 15 players using knockdown, including me... twice. How did I finally get him? Not with a one-hit kill, but with the horrifying mind-bleed. My one-hit kill is still too unreliable (my laser rifle does 15damage on a bad shot), but I knew the mind-bleed would bury him. And it did. It's the ONLY thing we have... and no, hitting H and A are not the same. BH's already do that, and they're better at it than we could ever be.

We're SNI-PERS.... snie-pehrz... we aim for the head and we are less accurate (even at range) than many other classes, but when we hit, we're deadly. That's the whole point, and the system works JUST FINE. I've seen it in PvP and being able to attack mind makes us almost, almost a viable elite combat class. We're STILL disadvantaged in PvE compared to the other classes, and not by just a little bit. This makes it much harder to climb the tree, and the ONLY long term benefit is that we can counter medics by hitting the mind pool. Medics should be just like every other class... limited. Riflemen are, and we're a whinybunch of children (for the most part, just look at our forum!), but those of us of some actual intelligence, realize that we're a necessary counter for the easiest and least risky class in the game to master (aside possibly from the combat-useless musician), the MEDIC.

He's just another sniper-kiddie trying to dodge the nerf-bat. His lamo sig makes it pretty obvious.

He took CM and rifle so he could do 2 stacking mind-damage DOTs, and heal himself if anyone got close to fight. I had a friend in my guild with the same template.

Don't give him the time of day Elenora. Mind-damage will get the nerf soon enough. It's all you see people using in serious PVP nowadays.

I suppose we'll see about that. BTW, I don't stack the poison with mindshots... not because it's a bad idea, but because poisons suck. And I would indeed love to dodge the nerf bat, particularly since I can't even hold my own in PvP right now. And yes, all the lovely reasons why medics aren't gods are valid, but they don't change the fact that a medic can put someone KO'ed by a rancor back up to full health in one action. That's an awfully, awfully powerful ability. It's just not very useful in PvP. You're all arguing that you want to be amazingly useful in PvE AND PvP... and frankly I think only Master BHs should be able to do that... they spent 200+ points to get there. I'm good at one thing... as I keep pointing out, but you'll not that I'm not even very GOOD at that. BHs, pistoleers, etc. are far better at PvP in a one on one basis, and a Pistoleer or Carbineer with a good Medic behind him is unstoppable. Unless....

The counter for this combination is the rifleman... but look at what the medics in the field are ALL doing.... healing the damage that pistol and carbine users take from mobs and deal to themselves with their special shots. Ultimately, this is, and should be, the function of medics. You're all just upset because this combo, which I have SEEN used against uber mobs successfully (2 players going legit against a dark jedi? Could we BE any more uber?) doesn't work against ONE class. That's the class designed to counter yours. And it works. Deal with it, plan for it, or don't PvP. I'm not a crybaby about getting owned by a master BH... I got what was coming to me for fighting someone designed to be able to kill individuals like me on his terms. Why are all my fellow medics whining about not being able to scoop up somebody's vaporized brainmatter, slap a bandaid on the gaping hole intheir headand declare them healthy? It doesn't even make sense. We hit minds because we shoot heads. What's your excuse?

last time i checked, in reality people taking head shots died from physical not mental wounds....

so u wanna talk about an idea that totally screwed up in the first place is mind damage...

the fact is this game is gonna go into the **edit**ter because there is absolutely no balance to anything...

having a unhealable mind pool is unbalancing...

if u look at the primary problem in the early days after release it was mind damage..

mind damage has recently taken a back seat because the large number of people hitting upper level combat classes and getting cheezy spam moves...

if that is ever fixed, there will still be the glaring problem of mind damage. Personally, I dont care if they fix mind damage or not...because once i get sick of the issue, ill just quit the game and move on to a game that makes more sense, but the devs better care because i know a bunch of people that will take their money elsewhere if PvP isnt fixed...right now the game is heading rapidly towards becoming 4-5 classes...

I'm sorry, but I just can't agree with you. The fact that mind can't be healed is the ONLY reason a group with a couple medics isn't able to fight indefinitely in PvE. Give Medics (or anyone) the ability to heal Mind and a good group of players with a couple of medics who know what they're doing will never lose a big PvE battle again. That's just wrong. What fun is a big battle if you know you're not going to lose? What's the point?

Unhealable Mind is NECESSARY in the PvE dynamic of the game. Otherwise, there would be no downtime, there would be no way for the AI to take anyone out of a fight for any real amount of time (the AI isn't smart enough to specifically target thosewho have been incapped recently), and the players would never lose a big PvE battle. Not to mention the fact that you'd give medicsthe ability to perform any action in the game an unlimited amount of times in a row without having to wait for anything other than the action timer. In groups, the penalties for using the crappiest, most poorly-made armor wouldn't matter. Spamming expensive, high-powered special moves wouldn't matter. Groups will be able to go on and on and on until the Medics run out of supplies. Healable Mind would break the PvE dynamic of the game in a million different ways.

As for PvP... yes, it is a definite problem now. But remember, they're reducing damage in PvP by 75%. That means no more 1-shot Mind kills from those nasty /Headshot3. At best, a sniper will take down a character in 2 shots. More often 3 and likely 4.And what do you call a Rifleman that needs 3-4 shots to kill a Carbineer or a Pistoleer?

Dead.

When I first say the proposal, I was like "Yeah, that's a good idea!". But now that I've given it some thought, it's become obvious that it's a very BAD idea for the reasons listed above. If they changed it, they'd have to change most of the rest of the game dynamics along with it. And I don't know about you but I'd much rather see them fix the bugs, add content, and then address all the other issues with CM's and other professions.

Falin

actually there is a better way to prevent endless PvE...

its already in game and just needs to be improved its called Battle Fatigue...

if mind healing was indeed implimented, BF would have to have much more severe effects like. permanent stat reduction unless healed or making heals totally ineffective on players with BH....so in a way there is already a system they could use to prevent endless PvE...

now im not saying im a fan of mind healing, but if it is put in, BF will have to be much much much more extreme then it is to prevent power xping...

Yes, that's true. Battle Fatigue could become a good mitigator in these circumstances. But then not only would you have to make huge changes to how extreme the effects of BF are, but you'd also have to make sure that characters that don't actually FIGHT (Medics, for example) get Battle Fatigue somehow as well. Changes, changes, changes. And you'd still be seriously prolonging the "combat life" of a group in battle. Unless the effects of Battle Fatigue were serious and sudden, any big PvE battle would be over and won before those effects were felt. And that would be bad for those who DON'T fight in big groups, especially newbies. They'd be puttering along killing easy stuff and then all of a sudden they'll get offed by whatever diseased nuna they were fighting. They'd get the HUGE penalty of that Battle Fatigue change without having the benefit that caused the change in the first place: A medic.

And that still wouldn't address the problems Riflemen in PvP would have. I doubt we'll ever see a PvP fight last long enough for BF to make any difference, even if the penalties were drastically increased. To allow that to happen would completely cripple PvE.

Falin

or have having a mind heal used on u create bf...

that would effectively stop endless healing since trying to regain mind via mind heal for endless healing would create a side effect u couldnt avoid...

thiswoul also help the newbies who didnt have to worry about massive mind damage since getting mind damage healed would creat bf...

the only problem is, this could possibly be used to harrass other players by mind healing them to purposely create BF on them

Having Mind healing cause BF on the target wouldn't really do any good, because in order for it to make a difference they'd have to really jack up the effects of BF like I mentioned before. That would severely penalize the people who don't have Medic skills and don't have a Medic follow them around. And it still doesn't address the PvP issue.

One thing I was thinking about was having Mind Heals cause Mind Wounds on the medic and the target, but it would still leave the PvP problem and the problem with the mob's inability to take someone out of the fight for any useful amount of time.

Really, as much as it may seen like it sucks on the surface, I think that unhealable mind is a pretty good game dynamic. It gives us a chance to actually lose those big, epic PvE battles. If someone gets Mind incapped, the best we can do is drag them out of harm's way and let them recover on their own. We know we're going to be shorthanded for a while, so we have to adjust our tactics accordingly. If it happens to a few more people, we likely have to retreat, drag them out, and regroup. This has happened a hundred times in groups I've been in, and it makes it all the more fun. The big battles are a lot more fun to fight if you know there's a chance you're going to lose.

I most certainly agree with everything else you listed in the other posts though. I just can't agree with this.

Falin

this Bf idea is just an idea if mind healing is put in...

its got a lot of issues...

actually as u know im actually against mind healing and more on the side of a total re-evaluation of the concept of mind..is it physcal damage to the head from rifleshots in which case some type of healing is needed ...or it trauma/mental damage cured by entertainers...

the problem is that right now its both and neither of the systems fit into a working system...

i think the first issue that the devs need to decide is "What is mind damage?!"

once they are set with that then we can take about solutions...as of now, i dont think the devs have any idea what they want mind damage to be...hence the problems of solutions to mind healing...

Now see, this is where we disagree.

What solutions? You only need a solution if something is a problem. The inability to heal Mind Damage isn't a problem IMO, it's a balance to the game mechanics. I really don't think anything needs to be fixed. The only place Mind damage is an issue is in PvP, and that's because of the 1-shot kills that can't be recovered from so it's easy for the Rifleman to lay a ranged deathstrike on them. But that issue is going away because of the upcoming 75% PvP damage reduction.

If you like, you can look at it this way. Getting shot in the head isn't only physical trauma, it's mental/emotional/psychologicaltrauma. It takes a lot longer to recover from those kinds of wounds, and the guy who's actually patching up the physical aspect of the injury really can't help the mental aspect all that much.

So we can just call the Entertainers the Psychotherapists of SWG.

Falin

I would say that mind damage is a problem in PvE just not aas bad as PvP...

you have to remember that with PvP damage reduction and working buffs, mind damage will become very powerful. It will make rifleman more powerful , but i admit that this will be off set by less damage,

but if u realize that fanshot does mind damage and eyeshot does damage as well, now you are looking at pistol speed pistol range mind damage...

if damage was limited to rifleman who had their own weaknesses and 2h melee which have thier weakeness to its not an issue...but when u see that pistoleers and BH will be doing mind damage very quickly and accurately without range penalties...

class balance will fall apart and people with move to classes that can target mind damage...this will really hurt the game...