Combat Medic Archive
Thread: CM AOE Ignoring Line of sight is getting old.
I am only repeating what others have said, but here goes anyway.
The problem is not line of site, not Combat Medics, not the inability of Doctors to cure poison, not an overly powerful class. The problem here and with this game in general is allowing mind damage to incapacitate you period. If a stat is going to incapacitate you, then it HAS to be healable in some form. To not allow these two basic tenants of game design is to create an attack that is so overpowered that everyone will want to be able to attack it.
I don't have any problem with the current buffs for mind. Leave that the way it is. I think if anything though, doctors need innoculation packs. It is my thought that innoculation packs should also use combat medic components like our ranged heals require doctor components. If you are going to have this **edit**-for-tat, or yeng-yang thing going on, then it has to be taken to the fullest extent.
If the developers would implement either one of these two ideas then the shape of combat medic would change.
Or my other idea would be even more fun. Remove all the grouping and enemy requirements on area of effect weapons. Meaning the poison would effect everyone friend or foe within the area of effect range. This would then essentially make the spamming of poison throwing lesson for fear of poisoning your own people.
Actually I like this idea the best even though I know other people would scream bloody murder about it.
Moun Gold is not a mind stim, it is a mind buff and a relitively small one when compared to the ammount of mind damage you recieve per tick of an area mind poison. Even using mount gold, 2 golucous, and 1 fishak, you will still be at 1 mind in a matter of secconds. That is unballancing.
SchakaRuu wrote:
BUT would everyone please understand that poison would not even be a topic if MIND could be healed? Mind damage is the problem, other pools can be buffed and healed.
Not here to Flame, Just too point out the obvious.
Moun Gold.
We are talking about a game, a PvP platform that needs to be ballanced so that it remains achallanging and fun form of compitition. Relisim is good to have to an extent, but you can not take it all the way because well... this isn't real. If it were, we would be able to don gas masks and the CM issues would be a moot point.
SchakaRuu wrote:
Rencon wrote:
And the line of sight bug, and yes it is 100% a bug, is just making base attack/defence stupid and pointless. If you throw an AOE poison on someone outside of a base, it will poison everyone within a 20m sphere, ignoring walls, dirt, and LOS.
Again, not here to Flame just point out the obvious:
Ever boil an egg? They smell like a Fart and make your entire house Reek-unless you have the doors to your rooms closed.
Ever Stand beside a building on a Cold windy day? Stand right next to the corner and the wind isnt too bad. Move away from it Five feet and the wind will cut you again.
AFHyper wrote:
rLHitman wrote:
I totally agree rencon. It really does all come down to who has a combat medic, or who has more of them. One resolution I though of, is to give them on health and action poisons and diseases. Since doctor's can't buff mind, why should combat medics be able to specialize in destroying it?
Just because doctor's don't buff mind stats doesn't mean that they can't be. This is the realm of Dancers/Musicians/Chefs/Smugglers. Also, by your same logic why should rifleman be able to 'specialize' in destoying mind?
Riflemen do not have an area bleed that hits the mind pool. They also do not have an area damage shot to hit the mind pool. Also, the fact that they can do mind damage is about the only major perk for their class, CMs have many other abilitys they can rely on.
Rikilii wrote:
Well two things here -- I'd have to disagree with you that the only way to defend a base, or even the best way, is to to do it from inside the base.
That said, I agree that poison and disease should not go through the closed door of a base. On the other hand, I don't think it should have anything to do with LOS, because of the obvious nature of the weapons
1. Poison resistance built into armor (as already discussed)
2. Friendly fire (including on yourself) on all AOE effects
Good sugestions. I never said that the only way to fix this problem was to remove mind poison. There are several other options, I just said that it needs to be ballanced to keep the PvP platform competitve. The glaring fact here is that SOE mucked up in beta when they removed mind healing. It was one of their patented duct-tape half ass fixes to prevend a medic loophole in XPing. The system was never designed to have mind damage be the determining factor in combat, but currently mind damage IS the determining factor in combat and that needs to change.
- Give doctors or combat medics the ability to use area mind stims, remove the wound cost because it is rediculous in nature.
- Spend more than 10 minutes making a decision on how to prevend the medic loophole and come up with a better idea, or remove mind damage from the game.
- Give Doctors the ability to area cure.
- Fix LOS issues, or pass out gasmasks.
Oh.. what's the best way? Please edumacate us on how to defend a basemore effectively from the outside given the current state of bases without having superior numbers.When the line of sight issues are fixed this may be true, but currently you can own a 64m circle around the base with very little risk of attack by sitting inside it.
Rikilii wrote:
Well two things here -- I'd have to disagree with you that the only way to defend a base, or even the best way, is to to do it from inside the base.
AcidRaineV wrote:
Ummm my poison wont incap it just brings down to 1 mind... wonder what I'm doing wrong
Continuous incaps? When is the last time you were poisoned?
Try tossing a disease at the same target. It's a bug but it is happening currently and every CM I've encountered has taken advantage of it.
RhenGordon wrote:
I am only repeating what others have said, but here goes anyway.
The problem is not line of site, not Combat Medics, not the inability of Doctors to cure poison, not an overly powerful class. The problem here and with this game in general is allowing mind damage to incapacitate you period. If a stat is going to incapacitate you, then it HAS to be healable in some form. To not allow these two basic tenants of game design is to create an attack that is so overpowered that everyone will want to be able to attack it.
That is exactly the problem, they made a duct tape fix for a medic loophole, and in doing so made PvP combat rely on mind damage as a determining factor. If you can't heal the pool, in the same manner than all other pools can be healed, than you should not be able to become incaped from it.
I don't have any problem with the current buffs for mind. Leave that the way it is. I think if anything though, doctors need innoculation packs. It is my thought that innoculation packs should also use combat medic components like our ranged heals require doctor components. If you are going to have this **edit**-for-tat, or yeng-yang thing going on, then it has to be taken to the fullest extent.
This is also a great recomendation, a good start on finding a place of ballance where PvP is competitive, not dominated by a few classes. Only think I would have to change is that I think dancers/musicians should buff mind for 3 hours at master (just like a doctor with high level buff packs) and it should only take 3-5 minutes to recieve the full buff (again just like a doctor). Entertainers might not have to search for resources and make buff packs, but the point here is that mind damage is throwing PvP off kilter and we need some counters to it.
If the developers would implement either one of these two ideas then the shape of combat medic would change.
Or my other idea would be even more fun. Remove all the grouping and enemy requirements on area of effect weapons. Meaning the poison would effect everyone friend or foe within the area of effect range. This would then essentially make the spamming of poison throwing lesson for fear of poisoning your own people.
I sugested this a while back on my server boards in the middle of a heated CM debate. Needless to say it didn't go over too well, but I still think that it is a good idea and would make PvP a lot more interesting.
Actually I like this idea the best even though I know other people would scream bloody murder about it.
Sigh, yet another encounter with a bugged GCW and overpowering combat medics tonight.
Make your base invulnrable!
Put it next to a cloning center, have your troops clone rush the base to gain your covert CMs a TEF, have the CM run into the base when attackers go in, attack someone once with a pistol. Everything turns red, throw one area mind poison, one area mind disease, rinse and repeat.
Pretty stupid, and definetly not fun PvP.
Rikilii wrote:
Rencon wrote:
If a master CM can poison 20 people with one shot
Yet another Nimrod who thinks the best tactic is to get all his friends as close to him as possible during a battle.
The issue is faction base wars. If you do not engage in faction base offense/defense, you wouldn't really understand and that's OK - this is just one small part of the game and shouldn't necessarily be used as a balancing point. When attacking or defending a faction base there is no other tactic. The entrance to the bases are narrow - you have to bunch up to get in. At the same time, the area inside the base is small, so the defenders have to bunch up as well because there's no where else for them to go. It all comes down to how many CMs are throwing poisons in vs. how many CMs are throwing poisons out. It's just not very fun when only one profession matters in these engagements and that's really the biggest problem, making these engagements more fun for a balanced group of combatants.
Actually the problem might go away when/if they fix the light-of-sight issue on faction base doors (you can currently stand in the doorway and shoot or throw poison outside without line of sight checks- the attackers can also throw poison or shoot back in certain circumstances).Add a LOS check to the front door and a lot of things would change (Melees would have a purpose in the GCW!). Who knows, CMs might look a lot more reasonable after that. I think these threads are getting as old as the line of sight issues though. The issue has been presented many times, we can only hope that it will be addressed with the big combat changes.
In regular ol' PvP where there's just a bunch of people running around shooting at each other, it's a very different story, but base wars are currentlypretty lame (formany reasonsin addition to this one)and that's not good for anyone.
BuB64882 wrote:
Rencon wrote, "Riflemen do not have an area bleed that hits the mind pool. They also do not have an area damage shot to hit the mind pool. Also, the fact that they can do mind damage is about the only major perk for their class, CMs have many other abilitys they can rely on. "
Such as?
lol exactly...we can uh...ya, that is we're good at doing, ummm... Well, I'm glad I'm using my 169 skill points wisely if I can't even think of one other valuable skill besides poison.
BuB64882 wrote:
Rencon wrote, "Riflemen do not have an area bleed that hits the mind pool. They also do not have an area damage shot to hit the mind pool. Also, the fact that they can do mind damage is about the only major perk for their class, CMs have many other abilitys they can rely on. "
Such as?
Ranged stims, Ranged area stims. Health and action poison. Health, strength, constitution, action, quickness, and stamina poison and disease in both the POI and area flavors. Mind heals.
There are plenty of things that the CMs have that make them an important and effective groupaddition in PvP.
BuB64882 wrote:
All these things are destroying PVP base attacks...Mind poison is going through walls and TEF exploits are the issue...not CM's and their abilities.
Granted it would be much less of an unballancing issue if the AOE thorugh walls and TEF were removed from the game, but there still would be no effective counter to the power of a CM to obliterate the minds of a 20m area, read that, NO EFFECTIVE COUNTER. That makes it unballancing.
Curious...Would you like me to duel you with only a ranged stim? 'Cause that's what I'm hearing.
This is the old standby argument that CMs chant when they see their precious mind poison/disease in danger. And it is 100% bogus. Of course 1v1 a combat medic is going to be at a disadvantage, but you know what, that is not the problem and never was. The problem is that in large scale PvP it all boils down to who has more combat medics throwing more mind poison.
Aperently you didn't read some of my replys, like this one where I point out that the problem is not CMs but the fact that they can wreck havoc on the mind pool and there is no effecitve counter. Secondly the problem is that this PvP system was not ment to have mind damage be the determining factor in combat, and Holocron has said so on several ocasions, he has just failed completely to do anything signifigant about it.
But, here, I will post it again, maybe this time you will take 20 seconds to read it before replying, so that you have something worthwhile to add instead of becoming insta defensive in fear of loosing your uberness.
Good sugestions. I never said that the only way to fix this problem was to remove mind poison. There are several other options, I just said that it needs to be ballanced to keep the PvP platform competitve. The glaring fact here is that SOE mucked up in beta when they removed mind healing. It was one of their patented duct-tape half ass fixes to prevend a medic loophole in XPing. The system was never designed to have mind damage be the determining factor in combat, but currently mind damage IS the determining factor in combat and that needs to change.
- Give doctors or combat medics the ability to use area mind stims, remove the wound cost because it is rediculous in nature.
- Spend more than 10 minutes making a decision on how to prevend the medic loophole and come up with a better idea, or remove mind damage from the game.
- Give Doctors the ability to area cure.
- Fix LOS issues, or pass out gasmasks.
Rencon wrote:
Ranged stims, Ranged area stims. Health and action poison. Health, strength, constitution, action, quickness, and stamina poison and disease in both the POI and area flavors. Mind heals.
There are plenty of things that the CMs have that make them an important and effective groupaddition in PvP.
Made a mistake there, should be:
Ranged stims, Ranged area stims. Health and action poison. Health, strength, constitution, action, quickness, and staminadisease in both the POI and area flavors. Mind heals.