Combat Medic Archive
Thread: CM AOE Ignoring Line of sight is getting old.
BuB64882 wrote:
Wow, Serenius, I'm surprised at you. For a dirty imp
, you always struck me as exceedingly intelligent. Don't buy into the same old arguments that your hearing. Granted, I know you have more than your fair share of PVP under your belt, and you speak from experience, however...
You stipulate mind damage can only be healed by CM's? Really? I've watched you destroy rebels in Theed, and seen your mind bar leap up. Muon? Or a CM hiding in the shadows? There are ways to heal mind.
That's because I have an innate ability for my species called equilibrium. If I'm running around on doc buffs, the health and action are usually so much higher that it restores my mind to full. I can only use this ability once an hour, and half the time I need it, I'm stunned and can't use it. Currently, the only way to heal mind is with a Combat Medic.
Yes, Mind damage can wreck a group, but it's caused by more professions than CM. After our poison and disease hit, guess what? Your TKA's are going to tear us to shreds. We have no defenses, and no way to fight off any seasoned combat profession. So, the "good players" you mention DON'T bunch up, and they DON'T wait for us to throw and run away. They hit fast, take us out, then meditate the effects off.
That's all good for city fighting, but base fighting is a completely different story. You're forced into a tiny area, and if there's a lot of defenders in the base, there's no where to run off to in order to meditate off the effects. Your only option is to simply fight until you're incapped and dead. There's no way around it as is.
I've seen it work.
Tolvar, your better than this...Don't join the nerf chorus.
To be quite honest, I've never liked the combat medic profession. If it was totally removed from the game, I wouldn't shed a tear. I'd buy everyone a round of Jawa beer.
P.S. Precious +500 per tick? IF I had one, it WOULD be precious...know why? Ask Adune...That's a LOT of resources. Without LFD to support you, try and come up with the resources needed to make 1 vial of the stuff. It's not easy.
One of our CMs, Lovi, has some insane poisons and diseases (800 damage per tick disease. Say goodbye to your mind bar in 20 seconds, cuz one tick is all it takes) and she gathers all of her own resources, as do most of our CMs.......wait, all of our CMs.
To be quite honest, I've never liked the combat medic profession. If it was totally removed from the game, I wouldn't shed a tear. I'd buy everyone a round of Jawa beer.
I would. Not becuase I wouldn't adapt, but because combat medics potentially are an important part of the rock-paper-scissors concept of balance. Right now, we are the best way to cut through armor. We are also the best way to cut through these uber-defensive templates that stack 200 ranged and melee defense. It's the introduction of dynamite to the rock-paper-scissors game. It potentially enriches PvP (good). It also potentially completely turns balance on it's head (bad). So while I am willing to argue possible "fixes" to the CM profession, getting rid of it entirely will simply make the GCW less interesting.
Wow, Serenius, I'm surprised at you. For a dirty imp , you always struck me as exceedingly intelligent. Don't buy into the same old arguments that your hearing. Granted, I know you have more than your fair share of PVP under your belt, and you speak from experience, however...
You stipulate mind damage can only be healed by CM's? Really? I've watched you destroy rebels in Theed, and seen your mind bar leap up. Muon? Or a CM hiding in the shadows? There are ways to heal mind.
Yes, Mind damage can wreck a group, but it's caused by more professions than CM. After our poison and disease hit, guess what? Your TKA's are going to tear us to shreds. We have no defenses, and no way to fight off any seasoned combat profession. So, the "good players" you mention DON'T bunch up, and they DON'T wait for us to throw and run away. They hit fast, take us out, then meditate the effects off.
I've seen it work.
Tolvar, your better than this...Don't join the nerf chorus.
P.S. Precious +500 per tick? IF I had one, it WOULD be precious...know why? Ask Adune...That's a LOT of resources. Without LFD to support you, try and come up with the resources needed to make 1 vial of the stuff. It's not easy.
Rencon wrote, "Riflemen do not have an area bleed that hits the mind pool. They also do not have an area damage shot to hit the mind pool. Also, the fact that they can do mind damage is about the only major perk for their class, CMs have many other abilitys they can rely on. "
Such as?
Rencon, you seem to have a problem with bugs, not CM's. I watched as my own turret killed me...I couldn't target Imperials, but I could target other Rebels? And yet, a Rebel in my own group (and I was overt rebel at the time) was unhealable by me? All that tonight alone.
All these things are destroying PVP base attacks...Mind poison is going through walls and TEF exploits are the issue...not CM's and their abilities.
Curious...Would you like me to duel you with only a ranged stim? 'Cause that's what I'm hearing.
~Rathnak
Rencon, you responded to post with this:
"But, here, I will post it again, maybe this time you will take 20 seconds to read it before replying, so that you have something worthwhile to add instead of becoming insta defensive in fear of loosing your uberness.
Good sugestions. I never said that the only way to fix this problem was to remove mind poison. There are several other options, I just said that it needs to be ballanced to keep the PvP platform competitve. The glaring fact here is that SOE mucked up in beta when they removed mind healing. It was one of their patented duct-tape half ass fixes to prevend a medic loophole in XPing. The system was never designed to have mind damage be the determining factor in combat, but currently mind damage IS the determining factor in combat and that needs to change.
- Give doctors or combat medics the ability to use area mind stims, remove the wound cost because it is rediculous in nature.
- Spend more than 10 minutes making a decision on how to prevend the medic loophole and come up with a better idea, or remove mind damage from the game.
- Give Doctors the ability to area cure.
- Fix LOS issues, or pass out gasmasks."
I didn't respond, because I don't see anything new here...Area Mind Stims would drag a fight out to tedious extremes...it just doesn't make sense. The mechanics of such warrant a seperate thread, if you feel like explaining. But it's similar to saying the balance to AT-ST is Ewoks, or X-Wings...It's meaningless at face value.
I do not see how the medic loophole or removing mind damage is relevant. I'm sorry, but if your problem is mind damage, are you posting on the Rifleman and Swordsman forums also? It'sa fundamental game mechanic. It's the only limiter in combat...And it's what keeps a duel from lasting 4 hours. Would you rather see wounds be the limiter? Yuck.
Doctor's are already so much more worthwhile than CM's, and for less skillpoints. Doctors can already heal our best stuff in one cure. They need to see each patient, instead of healing a whole group...Too bad.
Fix LOS issues, or pass out gassmasks. THIS I can get behind. As I said before, no one wants bugs in the game, least of all us. I couldn't poisonanother playerlast night, because "you have lost sight of your target". He was standing right in front of me. Gas masks, as well as fire extinguishers, should be able to be used/made by players. I don't really care who or how, but this I agree with. It's been brought up before on these boards, and is met with favorably by a lot of CM's. In fact, a gas mask is the only way I can get behind the 75% reduction.
Contrary to your belief, CM's do not want to be griefing uber players...But we do not take kindly to players calling for the removal of the ONLY useful tool we have in PVP (or PVE, if your trying to support a rifleman against big game). Despite your protests to the contrary, that sounds to me like what your saying.
All of this is moot, really...The changes coming with the next publish could make this all meaningless. Doesn't mean it's not fun, though. 
Serenius,
"That's because I have an innate ability for my species called equilibrium"
-I always wondered what was underneath that composite.
"That's all good for city fighting, but base fighting is a completely different story"
The problems with base fighting are too numerous to list...But ONE scenario is not enough to base major changes to a profession on, IMO. Especially not MINE.
"To be quite honest, I've never liked the combat medic profession. If it was totally removed from the game, I wouldn't shed a tear. I'd buy everyone a round of Jawa beer."
Okay, your opinion, and your entitled to it. I feel the same way about merchant. But it's there for those that want it, and I just have to deal with it. There are a lot of play styles out there. Here on the Combat Medic Forums, I would imagine thatthere are many who find theCM a worthy addition to the world of SWG.
"One of our CMs, Lovi, has some insane poisons and diseases (800 damage per tick disease. Say goodbye to your mind bar in 20 seconds, cuz one tick is all it takes) and she gathers all of her own resources, as do most of our CMs.......wait, all of our CMs."
I'm impressed. Well done. Are they for sale? My point was that an unguilded player goes through a lot to craft those use based poisons and disease. And the 800 tick poison is excellent, but not the norm. The CM works hard for their weapon of choice, not once, not 3 times a year, but every single day...The quality your talking about is not at all easy to reach. I say she earned the damage she is throwing. I've been destroyed by TKA's in about 20 seconds. And I've been blasted from a 3K buff to nothing in far less time against an AT-ST. Still no crying for nerfs from me. All I'm saying is that i'm surprised you and Rincon are over here doing just that.
SchakaRuu wrote:
SchakaRuu wrote:
Rencon wrote:
And the line of sight bug, and yes it is 100% a bug, is just making base attack/defence stupid and pointless. If you throw an AOE poison on someone outside of a base, it will poison everyone within a 20m sphere, ignoring walls, dirt, and LOS.
Again, not here to Flame just point out the obvious:
Ever boil an egg? They smell like a Fart and make your entire house Reek-unless you have the doors to your rooms closed.
Ever Stand beside a building on a Cold windy day? Stand right next to the corner and the wind isnt too bad. Move away from it Five feet and the wind will cut you again.
and one more here, not too Flame, just too point out the obvious.
I have never met a doctor that couldnt administer care the the Cranial region. Devs, have you?
This is exactly the thing we have been complaining about though. Mind damage is not healable and as such that attack in whatever form either combat medic, rifleman, swordsman or any other class that can target that HAM pool is over powered compared to the professions that cannot attack the same pool.
Yes a doctor can heal cranial trama, but that would be to say that Action and Mind are then physical damage. Then if they are physical damage, how do I get damaged when I toss the poison in the first place?, or how about when I use a non-ranged healing stim on someone? So then that would mean that mind is like a fatigue rating, then why on earth is my fatigue so easily damaged,
It would lend itself then to people who come under fire a lot, any combat class, should have a certain resistance to mind damage since they are used to being under fire.
I am firm in my thinking that mind damage should not incapacitate a character if there is not going to be any healing for that pool in the HAM, otherwise there has to be a heal for it. Either mind is physical damage or it is not, we cannot have it both ways.
Instead of screaming for a nerf to any profession because of mind damage, we should all be screaming about the HAM pool that has no healing associated with it, and only healing that can be performed is in the form of a heal that does as much damage as it does good.
I don't think Rincon was calling for a nerf. This issue needs to be fixed, much like the many other bugs that surround bases. With Group TEF abuse, it is impossible to even try and counter an attack. All a cm has to do is walk in a base COVERT and kill everyone.
Do we really want a war where everyone is either a cm/doc or a tkm/doc???? I don't. I haven't seen this tactic countered, but to do so I assume you would need over half of your force to be doctors. And kinda have like a buddy system.
Really lame bug.
Then go outside and warcry, kd, dizzy, blind, head shot, fire, whatever it is your profession can do and kill the CM. You have to think smart. 99% of CM's kills are against people who don't come prepared and have no strategy other than spamming 1 button over and over.
I am a Master Combat medic and I have spent a lot of time becoming one, so much time in fact that I have had no time to get proficient in a weapon profesion. Poison is my weapon! Most of the time I have one chance to do anything in PvP, use poison because of the fact that I need all my Focus and Willpower I do not wear armor. One shot I'm dead, but guess what so is my enemy. I am not saying this as an argument to keep mind poisons because that is not the main argument here. I just think that a CM is like a one-use item. You poison and then you die, so star killing CM faster that is all you have to do.
Also, if anything CM should be able to area cure poison and disease, you would think that someone who can craft the disease or poison could also craft the antidote. All antidotes ever made were made by sampling the original poison.
If you're all so upset about the CM profession convince more of your guildmates to become CM! That will solve a lot of problems.
The problem as I see it is that your armor sure looks encasing and that helm sure looks like it filters but it offer no defence. Our troops in Iraq had a better chance against bio/chem warfare. When a single combat medic can repell overwhelming numbers, then I have to ask what is wrong with this picture...
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=29520&poll_id=0&warned=y