Combat Medic Archive
Thread: The Power of Poisons
Tranced
Wed Jun 09, 2004 2:43 pm
#14
also, as far as the pve issue is concerned, i would love to see your guys damage get quadraupled, and then have the 75% be active in pvp. that way you wouldnt have to stack when fighting creatures ... because pve damage is way undercompensated.
Tranced
Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:19 pm
#15
i can see what you mean
when youre facing a creature that has very high resists to everything, poisons can outdamage other professions. the problem is nobody has poison resists, so again ... like you stated ... it very much depends on the creature. however, i still wouldnt be against cms getting an increase in pve damage.
when youre facing a creature that has very high resists to everything, poisons can outdamage other professions. the problem is nobody has poison resists, so again ... like you stated ... it very much depends on the creature. however, i still wouldnt be against cms getting an increase in pve damage.
jfang
Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:02 am
#16
Gnuut wrote:
Problem with reducing range is that it is also tied into charges. Dropping from a 47 charge poison to 36 charge standard is one heck of a nerf.
No, it doesn't have to be. It can be, but it can also be compensated. For example, if the devs reduced the standard poison from having 45 charges to 44 charges, but made it so each experimentation point added 50 charges, this would be a tremendous powerup. An exaggeration, but you get my point.
It's all about what other balances the devs implement to compensate for a change in the system. And if they do substantially change how poisons work I expect they would tweak some other game mechanic to compensate, as they are currently happy with how poisons and diseases work (last official line from the devs several months ago, and I *think* alluded to at the fanfestalthough I can not confirm this).
Also, since a lot of other things are getting a nerf as well (such as armor, judging by the quality of bounty hunter armor), just because something is decreased doesn't mean it's a nerf. If poisons were reduced in strength 25%, but everything else went down 50% in strength, poisons would in fact have gotten a powerup. Everything in the game is relative (which is what makes balancing so hard)... 
Pahdbacca
Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:50 am
#17
Gnuut is very far from a noviceand very far from FotM....
Trust me 
Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 06-09-2004 03:51 PM
Templar1865
Thu Jun 10, 2004 12:54 am
#18
1. make havla not work for poisons and diseases
Fine by me.
2. increase the timer between throwing
2. increase the timer between throwing
Nope. If you do number 1, you don't need to do this. Increasing the time between throws will also likely increase the time between ranged heals.
3. limit the range to 64m MAX, including aoe effects
3. limit the range to 64m MAX, including aoe effects
Makes sense, but I'm not sure how the devs are going to program things to take into account AOE radii. If I can throw at 64 and have a radius of 10, then it looks like it's going to go to 74. Are you suggesting reducing the maximum range of throws to something less than 64 so that the AOE maxes out at 64?
4. get rid of stacking on a single pool
4. get rid of stacking on a single pool
If the combat balance allows for this, you could argue that it makes sense (you could also argue that these are different types of poison and different strains of virii, which would all affect a target differently and should therefore stack). The biggest issue with this right now is PvE. As a hybrid healer/combatant, the class is--in PvE--overbalanced to the healer side. if you heal for 1000 health, that's going to set a lot of folks at maximum (or close, depending on buffs). However, with the "it goes to eleven" mentality of the devs with high-end mobs (DWB battle droids, high-end monsters, etc.), the offensive capabilities of CMs are very underpowered, making stacking very close to necessary to be successful in offensive combat.
4. give doctors a range cure (which the devs have already stated they will do)
4. give doctors a range cure (which the devs have already stated they will do)
IMO, bad idea. Give doctors the ability to innoculate against disease and poison, give them inherent resistances to disease and poison (CMs, too!), low-power mind healpaks, but don't mess with what makes CM unique. Give the ranged stuff to the CMs.
Brainplay
Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:25 pm
#19
The problem with stacking is that you are still using disposable poison packs one 1 npc or pc (singles and areas) to get this 3k per tick damage some of which will get resisted if below the C mark. In PvE 3k every 10sec is practically nothing unless the npc has uber resists and heavy armor (hope you bring someone to tank for you or you're a deadman) and even then we are still head to head with some professions in damage output. In other words I'm saying that basically as these are disposable they should come with an advantage to use, that being the ability to stack.
In PvP the potential is there but to accomplish it requires alot of backup, havla and luck. Although being able to stack enough to reach 1k MIND damage is usually enough to do that job. As many have stated the failure of that one stat pool is what gives CM's that "overpowered" aspect. Ifthe mind poolis re-worked in the combat revamp I believe that the "overpowered" title will be long gone and the true combat effectiveness of poisons (or lack of) will be more apparent.
Brainplay
Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:44 pm
#20
My kingdom for an edit button and removal of my butterfingers.
So like I was saying, justifying stacking removal of a disposable item isn't really justifiable at all. If we could craft our best packs and have them never run out I can understandnerfing "stacking"
Also I never understood the whole "less than 64m" ranged arguement. Being capped at 64m seems fair enough. The aoe portion is debatable although you would still have to bounce it off a target at 64m.
I have yet to see anything posted about devs considering "ranged" anything for doctors. Having to chase down people is what a doctor has to do unless they want to pay the points and get CM. Even a 15m range is a slap in the face to the entire CM profession.
Answer me this:
1) How can you justify the granting of a ranged ability to a non ranged class in order to counter 2 actions (poison/disease) and nothing else.
2) Why cannot a limited ranged cure ability be given to CM's considering they are master field medics and would allow more than 1 class to be able to counter this ability.
3) Why are the devs granting more combat counters to a non-combat medical class that uses fewer player points and has way far more combat medical "support" potential than one specifically named as such. (i.e. cure states, poisons, disease, fire, resucitate)
Brainplay
Thu Jun 10, 2004 10:45 pm
#21
My kingdom for an edit button and removal of my butterfingers.
So like I was saying, justifying stacking removal of a disposable item isn't really justifiable at all. If we could craft our best packs and have them never run out I can understandnerfing "stacking"
Also I never understood the whole "less than 64m" ranged arguement. Being capped at 64m seems fair enough. The aoe portion is debatable although you would still have to bounce it off a target at 64m.
I have yet to see anything posted about devs considering "ranged" anything for doctors. Having to chase down people is what a doctor has to do unless they want to pay the points and get CM. Even a 15m range is a slap in the face to the entire CM profession.
Answer me this:
1) How can you justify the granting of a ranged ability to a non ranged class in order to counter 2 actions (poison/disease) and nothing else.
2) Why cannot a limited ranged cure ability be given to CM's considering they are master field medics and would allow more than 1 class to be able to counter this ability.
3) Why are the devs granting more combat counters to a non-combat medical class that uses fewer player points and has way far more combat medical "support" potential than one specifically named as such. (i.e. cure states, poisons, disease, fire, resucitate)
cdsixer
Thu Jun 10, 2004 11:09 pm
#22
1. make havla not work for poisons and diseases ok good idea there
2. increase the timer between throwing this doesnt need to be done if u do number 1
3. limit the range to 64m MAX, including aoe effects ok sounds good but dont touch our AOE
4. get rid of stacking on a single pool ok ill go with that as long as u can stack a poison and disease considering there 2 different things
4. give doctors a range cure (which the devs have already stated they will do) no bad idea, CM's are used in range and if this is added then it will only mess it up. a CM is ranged not a doc so this ranged power should be given to a cm and a cm alone (ranged speaking)
MutantSquirrel
Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:39 am
#23
I just have to say that no doc deserves a 'ranged' heal of any kind. You want a ranged heal? Pay the extra 29 pts.
jfang
Fri Jun 11, 2004 7:45 am
#24
Tranced wrote:
4. give doctors a range cure (which the devs have already stated they will do)
I just noticed this. Can anybody confirm that a dev or correspondent officially posted that the doctorswill be givena ranged cure?
I would prefer the seeing the actual post, but if somebody can corroborate that he or she has personally seen the same thing that will be good enough. There are just too many rumors floating around to separate truth from rumors for me.
Tranced
Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:51 pm
#25
jfang wrote:
Tranced wrote:
4. give doctors a range cure (which the devs have already stated they will do)I just noticed this. Can anybody confirm that a dev or correspondent officially posted that the doctors will be given a ranged cure?I would prefer the seeing the actual post, but if somebody can corroborate that he or she has personally seen the same thing that will be good enough. There are just too many rumors floating around to separate truth from rumors for me.
its from the fan fest ... i personally heard them say they were going to implement a ranged poison cure for docs. whether or not this happen is yet to be seen
Tranced
Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:59 pm
#26
Brainplay wrote:Answer me this:1) How can you justify the granting of a ranged ability to a non ranged class in order to counter 2 actions (poison/disease) and nothing else.2) Why cannot a limited ranged cure ability be given to CM's considering they are master field medics and would allow more than 1 class to be able to counter this ability.3) Why are the devs granting more combat counters to a non-combat medical class that uses fewer player points and has way far more combat medical "support" potential than one specifically named as such. (i.e. cure states, poisons, disease, fire, resucitate)
1) im not really going to argue with you on this, because unless youre a doctor and pvp in congested (and heavily lagged) areas you dont know how much this is needed.
2) giving combat medics more cures (in effect making them the total medic for combat) is essentially giving one class the absolute best healing abilities along with the ability to have the best dps. also, if everything was given to combat medics instead of docs than the doctor professon would become nothing less than an alt character, simply somebody who buffs. the devs have stated multiple times that they dont want this to happen.
3) see above -- also note that doctors dont have any offensive skills. all you have to get in order to have the highest dot in the game is ONE tree in marksman. now if doctors got to throw poisons as well than this would be a valid argument, but stating that combat medics dont have as many abilities as doctors is in no way fair.