Combat Medic Archive

/bump. Pahd, welcome back Hope you had a happy holidays. Can you weigh in? Thanks!

Am I crazy, or was this something you and/or Kave had talked about?

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BuB64882 wrote:

The CM community is severly splintered. It is part of Community Relations' duties to mend that rift, if possible.

• I'm not certain that the CM Community is fractured to the extent you indicate. I agree that the Community will benefit fom unity; however strong debate is healthy.

I do have a strongvision of my CM's role, but clearly, some other CM's, and more importantly, other professions crying for changes to OUR profession, do not. When those cries are answered with nerfs, clearly there is a misunderstanding or a misrepresentation going on somewhere. I am seeking a source that we can point to in future discussions, so that we can move forward.

• I believe there is tremendous misinformation, fear, and flat out liesoccuring in the GCW forums in regard to CM's. I believe the biggest catalyst for the recent attention there is due to a flaw in Faction headquarters that allow attacks to violate the integrity of walls and the Z-axis (above and below you). While I have not been able to duplicate this myself yet, I certainly have seen folks shooting outward while clearly protected within a player built structure. Many folks areciting the above flaw as reason enough to nerf Combat Medics - indicatingquestionable motives.


• Another common complaint is that our packs work farther than 65M. I have tested this many times and still can't throw farther than 65M. This is probably the second most frequently cited reason for nerfing combat medics. Again, until I see a documented way to do this, I believe it's horsepucky, or misinformation as you describe.

And clearly, CM's ARE different from other professions, save perhaps Squad Leader, in this respect. There is no question that a Pistoleer is a combat class. She gains her XP by shooting things. A Doctor gains XP by healing people. The same is not true for CM. I gain XP by healing things, but also by poisoning them. And to become a CM, I had to shoot things AND heal things. So, please tell me if I am a support class, or a combat class. All our discussions of balancing and direction can spring from there, but we cannot continue effectively without this question being answered. I disagree with your opinion that we are a stronger community without a vision statement than we would be with one.

• I don't know if I want the Dev's to make a statement like this. Once they go on the record, and the direction is set, it becomes much harder to change course because folks start in with "You said we were going to be this".

I respect your question, and your desire for clarification. I'm just not sure I want to hear an answer, because it draws a line in the sand. As it might for any other class that has questions about it's role (BH's, Doctors, Rangers, etc.)

And again, I don't see how they can't answer it. How can we on this forum contribute to the future development of this profession without knowing what it's intended role is?

Anyway, thanks for the info Pahd, and the continued efforts.

It amused me to do so, so here's the various descriptions of CMs given in official texts:

Manual:
A Healer who also has some field-training to increase his odds of survival in battle.

Easily the most succinct description given of Combat Medics, doesn't tell you much though. This single line could be used to argue that a Combat Medic is supposed to be a pure support character, but it easily gets trumped by the other two official sources.

Holocron:
The Combat Medic in Star Wars Galaxies is a rather diverse character. As one of the "Hybrid" professions they not only have excellent ranged weapons skills (as they are Master Marksman), but their healing ability is only rivaled by Doctors, (because they are Master Medics also).

The role of Combat Medic involves more then just healing, however. Combat Medics are capable of crafting grenades that can disease enemies as well as cause massive bleeding that deals Damage Over Time (or DOTs, as some refer to them).

The Combat Medic is also proficient with crafting grenades that they can throw into a group of friendly players and do some Area Effect Healing (AE Healing).

Besides the Commando, no other class can craft grenades but the Combat Medic.

All information regarding what is granted and when it is granted can be found in the Skills Interfaces (CTRL-S) while in game.

This provides in my opinion the most interesting view on Combat Medics as it plainly shows that Combat Medics always were intended to be a Combat Class. While there's been some scaling back in terms of the requirements, some of that combat skill remains. And keep in mind that all the abilities granted in the Range Support line require a gun.

Prima's Official Strategy Guide:
Able to dole out life with one hand and death with the other, the Combat Medic is perhaps the most respected unit in any battle. Highly trained in the use of stimpacks, medpacks, and ranged healing devices, a Combat Medic helps keep a fighting squad healthy and capable both in and between battles.

Patching up the wounded is not all the Combat Medic can do, however; the disciple also requires a high levle of ranged weapons skills. Extensive training up through the Specialist levels in pistols, carbines, rifles, and ranged weapons support has taight the Combat Medic a few special moves and abilities when it comes to a firefight. Suppression fire, dive shot, roll shot, and full auto signgle are a sample of the lethal tallents of the Combat Medic.

But perhaps the most insidious and deadly ability in the Combat Medic's repetoire is the concoction and use of poisons. These slow yet persistent agents can be administered from afar, and require advanced medicines to counteract. A few well-placed ampoules can be devestating to an opposing force.

The life of a Combat Medic is not easy; it means complete mastery of two full prerequisite professions, the responsibility for the health and readiness of the squadmates, facing down the focused targetting that such specialized units recieve in battle. It's a difficult path, but one worthy of respect.

This one really echoes the same description given in the holocron, focusing heavily on the damage dealing capacities of the Combat Medic. These lengthy descriptions often seem to be about 75% Combat 25% healing, which is also reflected in the Combat Medic schematics. Both descriptions are also operating under the assumption that Combat Medic would require Master Marksman. If you take a look at the orginal manual, while it doesn't mention Master Marksman under CM, it does list many requirements that aren't in the game. For example, Commandos it lists Engineering IV along with the current requirement. They wanted Smugglers to have Buisness IV and Engineering IV. If you take a look at the "Current Manual" on the website it still lists these reqs.

I have asked several times in different threads...Never gotten a response worth reporting back. I will try again however, tonight.

Edit: Bumped an old thread from before the holidays thatI started concerning the role of CMs in SWG. I doubt they will get to it as their first priority Monday, but stranger things have happened. I will keep it bumped.

Message Edited by Pahdbacca on 01-04-2004 03:11 AM

The thread I Bumped is very similar to what I wrote here

Very interesting stuff...Thanks for making that so easily accessible!

The bit from the Prima strategy guide pretty much sums up why not to buy a strategy guide for a game that has updates all the time

Well as I said, it pretty much is just an echo of the description given in the holocron, so for all intents and purposes it was accurate, at least as accurate as the holocron description.

Now if you go to the Newbie Space Station at the city selection screen read the little bit about Tyrena, it talks about Stormtroopers walking around in the city. (If you aren't laughing right now you need to take a trip to Tyrena and look for the Stormtroopers.)

So obviously its not very accurate for the current iteration of the CM, but it gives you a good idea of what the orginal vision for the profession was, and in some ways I think a CM with an even bigger combat leaning would be fun to play.

Now this isn't the worst case I've seen. Mythic went as far as rewriting the description to reflect a much more nerfed character that wasn't very good at fighting or healing. While a slight rewrite might be in order for the Combat Medic, I hope that the Devs still have the original image of a hardy fighter that can throw a 'darn' good heal in mind.

Noodle writes, "...can throw a 'darn' good heal in mind".

Was that a pun?

After reading some of these threads I think the primary question a lot of people are skipping is: What do the CM's want Combat Medic to be?

One of the draws to SWG is supposed to be player-based content, which is stifled when a dev steps in to set guidelines on a profession. We are the most effective large-scale healers, bar none, which makes us a support class. We are also able to deal out huge amounts of damage (in certain situations), which makes us a combat class. This is not an ineffective combination, which is why there are BH's screaming for nerfs.

Once again, a profession is dealing with others coming to their forum, calling for a nerf. The 50 minute incap is gone, along with our ability to incap via poison alone. Problem solved, whether or not in the most elegant fashion. It was a bug that we got nerfed to fix. Attacking without LOS is an exploit. Yes, it was irritating, but so was a BH's 15k close range LLC hit (melee damage + multipliers).

If you are most interested in being able to pump out huge amounts of raw damage, then CM is probably not the best choice. If you are interested in being a versatile addition to ANY group, who is able to heal everyone at a glance, as well as dropping a significant amount of damage on the enemy, then you will probably be a good CM.

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BuB64882 wrote:

Noodle writes, "...can throw a 'darn' good heal in mind".

Was that a pun?

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Freudian slip maybe, who knows.

I'm going to weigh in here. Myself, i've been playing a CM since Beta 2, the class really appealed to me, DoTs, AOEs, and since I played a Chanter in EQ, the support function just comes natural.

I am not that high up, i rarely play, plus I work on Carbineer and other things alot as well, but luckily my first holo told me to Master CM...lucky I would say, or fate...

We have a problem with Poisons being too powerful in PVP, and underpowered in PVE. Guns do less damage in PVP, so therefore, everyone thinks the CMs poisons doo to much per tick, altough it is probably in line with other damages/second of other classes. Therefore, it's all we have. However, the appearance is that since we can hit any multiple of targets in a small radius, and do the same amount of damage to each one, then we are "Uber". There are a few things that could be done that could help this, or "balance" if you will, since we are all against nerfing, but I feel would still give our main weaps some value in the fight.

These are all fully separate brainstormed ideas, each would work without the other, and are truly not compatible with one another in this form (My disclaimer):

-AOE poisons do a multiple of damage based on how many PCs are hit. The damage would be spread across all of the targets in the range of the grenade, and scaled back accordingly. Not fully 2/1, but noticable.

-Poisons in PVE need to be jacked up, or PVP needs to be jacked down. But when I mean PVE jacked up, I mean an equivalent to a Pistol or Carbine bleedshot 700+.

-Finally, a Combination in good proportion of the above two ideas, spreading damage out over all targets in PVE and PVP, but have PVE do a fully devastating Debuff, and PVP equal to a Elite Ranged shooting his best special "over time".

We are Elite, Hybrids, that require almost as many skill points as a Bounty Hunter, yet we have no 1-2 punch. Healing isn't really our forte, that caps at Novice to be honest, Range increases as it should, but Damage from our poisons really never offers what any Elite Marksmen type special would give, especially a MP/with BH Pistol.

Regards,

Surlek Kialgar ~radiant