Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Nerf CM's? AKA To the whiners:
I think some of the problem is the ability to stack the different levels of poisons. I don't think you should be able to stack anything. Doing just that will probably help to decrease the damage a CM can do. But I personally think it is crazy that people are crying about dying if you don't have doctor around. You should have tactics if you are going into battle and one would definitely have the team that you need to be effective ie. doctor, cm, etc etc. You can easily counter a CM poison if you yourself bring one to the fight. You can be healed if you bring a doctor. It isn't a CM's fault or the CM profession's fault that you go into battle without thinking about all you may encounter and take measures to counteract them.
PoisonPeZ wrote:
I have an area poison which ticks for860 which can be stacked with a single-target poison that tics for 1060. I have an area disease which tics for 538 wounds which can be stacked with a single-target disease that tics for 560 wounds. If I eat Havla I can chuck the stuff at an insane rate. There are alot of people who have better "stuff" than me.
If I throw the stuff at someone who doesn't have a doctor nearby, they are DEAD. I have assisted in the deaths of at least three Dark JediGuardians (players).
As far as I know, combat medicswere not in any "Star Wars" movies, literature or games - until now- yet they are the most dominant force in this game.
I have played otherprofessions which have been nerfed to the dust and this is the first profession in which I support nerfing.
Aladine wrote:
I'm not an avid PvPer so I don't tend to jump on the nerf this or nerf that bandwagon, but I have one question for combat medics. What reason do you have for being the only class NOT included in the 75% damage reduction? This is not a flame or anything, I just really want to know. For all I know there is a DAMN good reason for you not to be. Just wondering.
Thanks
Cryo
Since I think you are actually answering the question (as opposed to trolling)...
For the sake of argument, assume that riflemen and carbineers can do 400 damage per second, and pistoleers can do 100, and assume that there are no other "special circumstances" (such as damage types, state attacks, etc), and that they should in theory be equal. However, it is fairly obvious that pistoleers are much weaker than carbineers and riflemen, and it is not very balanced. Now, if the devs put a 75% damage reduction on riflemen and carbineers, all of them do about 100 damage per second, and are balanced.
Implementing a 75% PvP damage reduction would simply bring back the original situation, only at 1/4 the original level. To argue that combat medics should get a damage reduction like everybody else implicitly makes the assumption (which may or may not be true) that everybody was balanced before the first reduction happened. So in the above example, you would end up with pistoleers doing 25 dps and carbineers and riflemen doing 100 dps, which is about as unbalanced as before you started.
The common belief is that combat medics did not receive a 75% damage reduction because they did not need one, they were originally underpowered and the 75% reduction brought everybody else down to their level. Put another way, one could argue that PvP combat is the base line, and that all classes except combat medic have a x4 multiplier in PvE combat.
Whether or not combat medics are balanced with everybody else in current PvP is another argument I do not want to get into (as invariably this subject degenerates into an unproductive flame war). But that is the generally accepted reasoning why combat medics didn't get a 75% PvP damage reduction.
jfang wrote:
Aladine wrote:
I'm not an avid PvPer so I don't tend to jump on the nerf this or nerf that bandwagon, but I have one question for combat medics. What reason do you have for being the only class NOT included in the 75% damage reduction? This is not a flame or anything, I just really want to know. For all I know there is a DAMN good reason for you not to be. Just wondering.
Thanks
Cryo
Since I think you are actually answering the question (as opposed to trolling)...
For the sake of argument, assume that riflemen and carbineers can do 400 damage per second, and pistoleers can do 100, and assume that there are no other "special circumstances" (such as damage types, state attacks, etc), and that they should in theory be equal. However, it is fairly obvious that pistoleers are much weaker than carbineers and riflemen, and it is not very balanced. Now, if the devs put a 75% damage reduction on riflemen and carbineers, all of them do about 100 damage per second, and are balanced.
Implementing a 75% PvP damage reduction would simply bring back the original situation, only at 1/4 the original level. To argue that combat medics should get a damage reduction like everybody else implicitly makes the assumption (which may or may not be true) that everybody was balanced before the first reduction happened. So in the above example, you would end up with pistoleers doing 25 dps and carbineers and riflemen doing 100 dps, which is about as unbalanced as before you started.
The common belief is that combat medics did not receive a 75% damage reduction because they did not need one, they were originally underpowered and the 75% reduction brought everybody else down to their level. Put another way, one could argue that PvP combat is the base line, and that all classes except combat medic have a x4 multiplier in PvE combat.
Whether or not combat medics are balanced with everybody else in current PvP is another argument I do not want to get into (as invariably this subject degenerates into an unproductive flame war). But that is the generally accepted reasoning why combat medics didn't get a 75% PvP damage reduction.
Ok I do understand your point when you take damage type and armor out of the argument, and perhaps after the armor nerf and the combat rebalance this will again become the case (I hope,) but it seems to me that with the fact that there is damage type, and armorbeing used 99% of the time in PvP making this comparison is like comparing apples to oranges.
It seems like everyone is using at least 65% composite with 80% kinetic protection (with many using stuff much better but I'm going to use lower numbers to represent those like me who don't buy PvP specific gear.) This means that when comparing the 1000 DPS of the carbineer, hit by the 75% reduction, drops it to 250 DPS, then stacked with the 65% resists on the armor you then goto 87.5 dps (no 50% armor reduction because most classes have a weapon that is at least AP1,) while the combat medic stays at the 250 DPS (starting here not 1000 being their reasonnot to get hit with the 75% damage reduction.) Doesn't this turn the tables into the combat medic's favor in a big way?
I can see why to not apply the 75% to them, but perhaps another solution forcombat medicswould be togivea damage "type" to poisons and disease like weapons have, so the resists that are in place on armor could balance the equasion evenly.Again this is not a flame, and maybe my math is off, but it seems to me that if you take into consideration "average" resists then perhaps the combat medics' damage should suffer some penalty, althoughnot the 75% because that would be overkill.One other option would bea 40-50% to bring their damage in line with the rest of the classes.
What are your thoughts on this?
Aladine wrote:
I'm not an avid PvPer so I don't tend to jump on the nerf this or nerf that bandwagon, but I have one question for combat medics. What reason do you have for being the only class NOT included in the 75% damage reduction? This is not a flame or anything, I just really want to know. For all I know there is a DAMN good reason for you not to be. Just wondering.
Thanks
Cryo
Also why is CM the only class able to stack DOTs, if they get to keep that feature after every other profession in game had it nerfed then it needs to be un-nerfed so we can all stack DOTs again and said DOTs should incap just like a CM's mind DOTs that tick for insane amounts every few seconds.
Ehrgeiz Zwiehander
Aladine wrote:
Ok I do understand your point when you take damage type and armor out of the argument, and perhaps after the armor nerf and the combat rebalance this will again become the case (I hope,) but it seems to me that with the fact that there is damage type, and armorbeing used 99% of the time in PvP making this comparison is like comparing apples to oranges.
It seems like everyone is using at least 65% composite with 80% kinetic protection (with many using stuff much better but I'm going to use lower numbers to represent those like me who don't buy PvP specific gear.) This means that when comparing the 1000 DPS of the carbineer, hit by the 75% reduction, drops it to 250 DPS, then stacked with the 65% resists on the armor you then goto 87.5 dps (no 50% armor reduction because most classes have a weapon that is at least AP1,) while the combat medic stays at the 250 DPS (starting here not 1000 being their reasonnot to get hit with the 75% damage reduction.) Doesn't this turn the tables into the combat medic's favor in a big way?
I can see why to not apply the 75% to them, but perhaps another solution forcombat medicswould be togivea damage "type" to poisons and disease like weapons have, so the resists that are in place on armor could balance the equasion evenly.Again this is not a flame, and maybe my math is off, but it seems to me that if you take into consideration "average" resists then perhaps the combat medics' damage should suffer some penalty, althoughnot the 75% because that would be overkill.One other option would bea 40-50% to bring their damage in line with the rest of the classes.
What are your thoughts on this?
Aladine wrote:
I can see why to not apply the 75% to them, but perhaps another solution forcombat medicswould be togivea damage "type" to poisons and disease like weapons have, so the resists that are in place on armor could balance the equasion evenly.Again this is not a flame, and maybe my math is off, but it seems to me that if you take into consideration "average" resists then perhaps the combat medics' damage should suffer some penalty, althoughnot the 75% because that would be overkill.One other option would bea 40-50% to bring their damage in line with the rest of the classes.
What are your thoughts on this?
Message Edited by Arenrag on 06-17-2004 10:58 AM