Combat Medic Archive
Thread: Crowd Control
FeD_x
Wed Apr 20, 2005 3:51 pm
#14
paralyze is very important when fighting meele it's probably the best thing to use on them and it works very well....it stops them dead in their tracks for ten seconds and hits WAY more often then kd well they are stopped u can throw poisions or heal ur self and if ur ranged u can just kite them
noran_vaz
Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:20 am
#15
Don't mean to sound stupid here I just really don't know. Do you mean is thyroid rupture is an AOE attack? If so cool. Although I really would like some more AOEs 
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mcorey
Thu Apr 21, 2005 11:43 am
#17
noran_vaz wrote:
How do we (CM's) rate 3 in crowd control?
My best guess?
a) It's done with the assumption that we're *not* solo.
b) It's done with the assumption that our group is fighting a crowd, but can pull the crowd off of us because of our infinite aggro potential.
c) It's done with the assumption that we target each mob in the crowd, one by one, and apply states. Lather, rinse, repeat.
It's crowd control the slow and tedious way!
MC
Brainplay
Thu Apr 21, 2005 8:29 pm
#18
After extensive testing, I'd rate our crowd control as more of a 1 or 2 tops. The chemical applications require you to be within 15m unlike our DoT's which are at 35m. They are single application only. They also use the 4second root to apply rule as do our DoT's and our bacta toss.
The same is applied to all of our other debuffs. In terms of high content, this isn't so bad. In terms of PvP its horrendous. Tried some group PvP and found to be lacking. Even engaged with someone you can still un-target them and hit your special which will set off the timer. Chasing down someone to apply a debuff was not easy especially if they are melee and dont have a speed reducer mod (why should a 20lb. pike not slow you down like a 20lb T21..... or 1lb. scout pistol?). Using stopping shot is much better than "paralyze". Come to think of it, most of the weapon specials are better than our chemical versions minus the action debuff. Snare icons stack but the effects do not. Still need to test that against some of the other stuff.
Alot of the information thats been posted has sadly been tested in 1 vs. 1 duels. As most real PvP'ers know, 1vs1 is a rarity in the current live and with the role/grouping thing going to be even more rare after the CU.
I'll update my earlier post later. Been having comp. problems that kept me from testing.
Ixtlitlxochitl
Sun Apr 24, 2005 6:37 pm
#19
"Crowd Control" doesnt mean dealing damage or doing specials affecting multiple mobs at once, it means to pick off mobs by stunning or "mezzing" them so they can't help their friends. for example, making a fight easier against a crowd of mobs by using Paralyze on one of them, disabling it and slimming the crowd down.
noran_vaz
Mon Apr 25, 2005 11:12 am
#20
Crowd control makes sense (to me) as being defined as the act of dealing with multiple persons at same time. ie. How effective is 1 person against a mob & how does that differentiate itself from fighting against single creatures/npcs or pvp.
You may be right. If so I think the term should be more like:
"skills at disabling the effectiveness of 1 target in mob"
Now... if they gave us back our area poisons like in current... then that'd be an effective crowd control. err perhaps crowd kill.
You may be right. If so I think the term should be more like:
"skills at disabling the effectiveness of 1 target in mob"
Now... if they gave us back our area poisons like in current... then that'd be an effective crowd control. err perhaps crowd kill.
noran_vaz
Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:00 pm
#21
interesting. I guess that's what they mean then crowd control = stopping 1 npc in a crowd from doing damage for a short peroid of time. Ahh makes perfect sense... mm on second thought no it's dumb.
My frustration at this is really starting to show isn't it :/.
The bright side? I'm not expecting class 5 crowd control as a smuggler or pistoleer. Sorry smugglers & pistoleers
My frustration at this is really starting to show isn't it :/.
The bright side? I'm not expecting class 5 crowd control as a smuggler or pistoleer. Sorry smugglers & pistoleers
JediArashi
Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:29 am
#22
noran_vaz wrote:
Crowd control makes sense (to me) as being defined as the act of dealing with multiple persons at same time. ie. How effective is 1 person against a mob & how does that differentiate itself from fighting against single creatures/npcs or pvp.
You may be right. If so I think the term should be more like:
"skills at disabling the effectiveness of 1 target in mob"
Now... if they gave us back our area poisons like in current... then that'd be an effective crowd control. err perhaps crowd kill.
I agree with you on the "crowd" part of corwd contol. But it doesn't denote AOE abilities. Smuggler is supposed to be the best "mezzer" along with Pistoleer, but we don't have AOE attacks either (though Panic Shot is supposed to be, but isn't working properly atm). The only way for us (Smugglers) can be use AOE abilities is to use our specials with Commando AOE weapons.
Outside of that I would say that CM rates well with the other "mezzing" professions, Smuggler and Pistoleer. CM has just as many specials that apply root,snare,movement/damage mitigators, etc.as the other 2 professions do.
Since over in the Smuggler forum we are currentlyrating our crowd contro lto be a 2 or 3 at best when it is supposed to be 5, then on the same scale I would rate CM crowd control as a 1 or 2. Without the ability to affect multipletargets the player endsup applying states to targets one at a time, and not contributing anything else to the fight. Which is better, reducing an enemies movement for 20 seconds or getting 20 seconds of DOT damage in? I don'tthink that question is difficult enough to answer yet. It's pretty obvious that doing the damage is better, when it should be a hard question to answer ifCM's are supposed to be a 3 in crowd control.
UniformMarshal
Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:25 pm
#23
Crowd Control is the skill (note there is no one win button, CC is an art form) to manage damage to the group pure and simple. It means debuffing the mobs on the tank thats pulling all the hate, or pulling the agro off the softy in the group whos getting pounded on cause he didnt watch his special. Snaring, Rooting, "mezzing" are all tools to lower the DPS of the over all encounter.
noran_vaz
Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:45 pm
#24
yeah I got that. it seems strange that a distinction has been made between dealing with crowds VS. single targets.I'm not so sure it'd differ from your general combat strategy on either.
Of course maybe a CMs focus would be on applying these states to every creature in a mob.
I do understand it don't get me wrong. Its just an odd distinction.
Im imagining taking on hi level mobs DWB Corvette etc. If the mob is equal or greater your to groups value it looks like trouble from the getgo. If not your wasting time applying states cause itll be dead in a few moments.
Would be interesting to see it in practice. It's going live soon so I'll be doing it.
if there's gonna be enog
But then again last I checked targets were showing their % of ham yet we get explicit values for the damage we've inflicted on the creature.
Of course maybe a CMs focus would be on applying these states to every creature in a mob.
I do understand it don't get me wrong. Its just an odd distinction.
Im imagining taking on hi level mobs DWB Corvette etc. If the mob is equal or greater your to groups value it looks like trouble from the getgo. If not your wasting time applying states cause itll be dead in a few moments.
Would be interesting to see it in practice. It's going live soon so I'll be doing it
. if there's gonna be enog
But then again last I checked targets were showing their % of ham yet we get explicit values for the damage we've inflicted on the creature.
noran_vaz
Tue Apr 26, 2005 1:52 pm
#25
yeah I got that. Although it seems strange that a distinction has been made between dealing with crowds VS. single targets. I'm not so sure it'd differ from your general combat strategy in both cases. I'm also open to the fact that your strat might completely change.
Maybe a CMs focus would be on applying these states to every creature in a mob.
I do understand it the title (CC) don't get me wrong. Its just an odd distinction.
Im imagining taking on hi level mobs ie. DWB or Corvette. If the mob is equal or greater to your groups level its trouble from the getgo. If not your wasting time applying states cause itll be dead in a few moments anyway. I'm sure there's a middleground.
Would be interesting to see it in practice. It's going live in a day or so & I'll be trying it out.
Maybe a CMs focus would be on applying these states to every creature in a mob.
I do understand it the title (CC) don't get me wrong. Its just an odd distinction.
Im imagining taking on hi level mobs ie. DWB or Corvette. If the mob is equal or greater to your groups level its trouble from the getgo. If not your wasting time applying states cause itll be dead in a few moments anyway. I'm sure there's a middleground.
Would be interesting to see it in practice. It's going live in a day or so & I'll be trying it out.
Mekodeemia
Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:54 am
#26
Ok we seem to have things under control as far as how to make the best of our profession damage wise. We know the ballpark numbers we need to have effective weapons. We are forever hopefulfor duel wielding and even holsters.
But i don't see much on crowd control.I find references back to the pistoleer description, people pointing out to complainers that it is what we can do. but little on how it works.. Near asI can tell
it is minumally effective. I hope i am just doing it wrong. I usually try to use it when i am with a small group of lev 60 to 80 friends. doing lev 80 missions. we are out numbered.. i have tried swithcing targets and sticking them with hinderances. maytimes they dont stick. I thought that the idea of burst shot was to dizzy the attackers for a short time and stop em from shooting while a group could focus on one at a time. All it does is tik em all off at once lol and get my buds clobberd i seem to be able to remain standing though... why even bother with crowd control. All one needs is a rifle and u can pull things one a time. anyway I use the burst shot alot just to keep things active. if the others would stick more often i think things would be better. Butelse might i tryhere that can help me with CC?