Combat Medic Archive

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or i should just stopi drinking whatever, youre not that bad ofa guy but just look at it from our perpective, look at the people who dedicated almost everything to helping people with master doc/cm... how can we defend ourselfs...

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look at most games out there, medics are not suppose to go toe to toe with guys sporting sniper rifles and rocket launchers. defend yourself - sure im for that; be able to kill everybody including elite professions in pvp - something needs to change.

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Tranced wrote:

look at most games out there, medics are not suppose to go toe to toe with guys sporting sniper rifles and rocket launchers.

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Actually, when I think of Combat Medic it brings to mind Clerics from D&D. Best healers in the game and some of the toughest fighters around also. And yes, they do go toe-to-toe with the guys sporting Uber-Swords and such.

Try thinking of it that way maybe? We are the Clerics of SWG. We are not the local NPC poultice healers.

And I'll be the first to admit I don't play *every* game out there, but which games with medics are you talking about specifically? I need a reference point to go and research your claim, rather than just a blanket 'most games out there'. For all I know there are no games out there with medics. Of course, SWG does have Medics. They are called Medics. Not Combat Medics. Extra word there, you see?

Tranced,

Plz go away. Thx la~

to BenderTheGreat:

well, i guess i mean real medics then. you got combat medics patching guys up in the trenches, and medics (doctors) in the combat hospitals. but honestly, i dont care what kind of medic you are, a rocket launcher or a sniper rifle should be able to take you out (and have a longer range than somebody throwing poison).

to Peracles:

lol. well if you really want me too ...

Ok, so real medics then. I totally agree with you. REAL medics do not throw diseases or poisons. They mostly just heal except in exceptional circumstances. I am in complete agreement with you.

Now, exactly which part of this game is *real*? I know i've gone over this before, but maybe not in this thread =(.

This is a game. It is not real. It in no way reflects any reality of which I am aware of. It is a work of fantasy. It has different rules and physics. It has different standards of conduct and behavior. It is illogical to believe that anything in it will accurately reflect the Reality that we actually live in. To apply Real World examples to a Fantasy Setting is a tenous proposition.

In Real Life Bounty Hunters stealthily track a target, then most likely call in the police to pick them up. In real life Creature Handlers perform in Vegas and do educational TV shows (Jack Hanna, Da Man). In real life if you pull out a flamethrower in a hospital and torch the Doc who's healing the guy you were fighting earlier you can expect the SWAT team to bust you up good. In real life Combat Medics mostly run around trying to save their comrades, fighting only when necessary.

If I wanted to play a game called 'Real Life' I would turn the PC off and go play it. I do quite often In the game of 'Real Life' I have a wife, 2 children and a fulfilling life. Sometimes I want to play the game of "Star Wars Galaxies" in which I am a Combat Medic, feared and despised for my ability to poison and disease without a care for who gets hurt. My SWG game is nothing like my Real Life game, which is why I like to play it sometimes

Anyway, I've droned on about it because I'm tired and I've gone over this so many times now it's becoming numbing. I hope you've taken no offense Tranced, I'm just really really so awed at seeing the same things being said over and over without anyone ever stopping to think or consider that it's been said before.

The nerf is coming, nothing will change that. Not much point in talking about it anymore I think. All this is doing is making me start to actually dislike the game and many of the people in it. That's not what I play it for.

I will be a good little sheep from now on and accept whatever my Dev/BH/Commando/Creature Handler Masters tell me I must be. No more arguments or discussion, just time to play the game again.

to Bender:

hehe, you bring up a good point. the thing i was hammering on is that more than this nerf needs to happen because youre gods in pvp (the competent cms at least). so, of course, the question of "what is a cm anyway?" has come into play, but even if youre suppose to go toe to toe with a commando or bh and be able to have all these great healing skills than great - ill switch to cm. but as it stands now youre even MOREpowerful than a bh or commando in pvp and therein lies my argument.

I don't disagree that you have a point. But it's something in the middle of your post.

The Competent CM's can go against a BH or Commando. That's true. And I believe it should be.

Now, a Competent CM against a Competent BH or Competent Commando? I do believe I should lose. And to the good ones, I usually do. I have no problem with that at all.

What I don't like is my prof being dumbed down so that Incompetent BH's or Incompetent Commandos can handle me with no problem

to Bender:

lol, please lets not get into a discussion of competency, theres room to go on both sides

what i meant by competent is poison and then run away as to not get hit. in my mind a smart cm wouldnt stand there as their target is running at them. run for a few seconds and he's gonna incap, so thats all i was saying.

Looks like these arguments can be broken down to 2 aspects (real life example, balance example).

Real life example/argument for power of a chem spec over another class

1) I think a chemical warfare specialist, given the right situation with preparation time, should and will be more powerful/feared then a small armed specialist. A real life example would be 'Chemical Ali' being on the U.S. list of men wanted in Iraq, whereas there are no small arms/hitmen/whatever else people on that list. Chemcial warfare weapons are considered weapons of mass destruction.

Balance example/argument for CM as is

2) I think balance should be weighed on effort/risk/reward but I also think that there needs to be apaper/rock/sissors aspect to the game.

effort/risk/reward excellent great good average poor

These are all based of just the class itself and not combinations.

CM - Poor: Skill points (high amount) to be effective at PvP (master cm - 81 points left over)

CM - Average: Skill points (average amount) to be effective at PvE (support line maybe craft line)

CM - Poor: Downtime (must craft - cant just log in and have fun)

CM - Poor : Expense (expesive to gather resources and run and own a factoryat 50k)

CM - Poor: Cash making (cant solo pve well, cant sell crafted items well)

CM - Poor solo pve ability

CM - excellent group pve ability

CM - excellent solo pvp ability against 90% of classes great against other 10%

CM - excellent group pvp ability

BH - Poor: Skill points (high amount) to be effective at PvP (eyeshot - 81 points left over)

BH- Poor: Skill points (average amount) to be effective at PvE (LLC 1)

BH - Excellent: Downtime (log in and fight)

BH-Good: Expenses (100k for composite 20k for llc 14k for scatter pistol u are set for months - if wookie no armor then its excellent)

BH- Excellent: Cash making (can solo lower level missions with llc easily - also get money for doing bh missions)

BH - Excellent: Solo pve ability (llc)

BH - Excellent group pve ability (llc)

CM - Excellent solo pvp ability

CM - Excellent group pvp ability

Paper rock sissors: *generally speaking*

Offensive = Person who is attacking, surprisingly

Defensive = Person who is being attacked

Good TK in city cant be beaten by poison if CM is on defensive

Good TK in city will own a CM if CM is on offensive (being aggressive and chasing TK)

Good BH in city or open land is better then CM in city if CM is on defensive

Good BH in city or open land is beaten by CM if CM is on offensive

Rest of mastered ranged Classes are beaten by CM if CM is offensive, andbeat a cm if cm is on defensive, with exception of pistoleer, who may still win.

Throw an available doctor in and things change towards other classes slightly

IMO CM is fine AS IS and balanced.

to nhilism:

lets not forget, youre a medic. you shouldnt be able to go up against commandos or bhs because you have the ability to heal, and none of youre starting skills do damage.

but for conversation ill assume that you are suppose to have a 50/50 chance against a commando or bh. now, you say that whoever is on the offensive will win the battle - and you say that the chance of that happening is 50/50. if youre dueling or overt you should be aware of your situation (im a commando, and cant remember the last time a tka snuck up on me - its just too hard not to see that red dot coming). now on top of the fact that you can out range ever elite combat class in the game, that attack also is aoe, does mind damage, is a pure dot, and a guaranteed incap. to bring doctors up is a joke, when im poisoned i barely have time to heal myself before the mind bar drops completely.

the fact that you didnt see the red dot is your own fault, thats why radar was put in, so you can see whats coming. poison and run away - you have a 15m head start on the guy. and you wont have to run very long anyway, because hes gonna incap in 12 seconds anyway.

but i forgot youre balanced, and the balancing factor must be that you have to spend more money and dont have as much time because you have to craft. if youre an elite class money shouldnt be a problem, and if you dont like crafting then dont craft - buy your poison. in my mind the money you have to spend shouldnt balance the fact that youre the best pvp attacker AND healer. crafting is generally a skill for people to sell what they make, so saying that you cant make money makes absolutely no sense in my mind, theres enough ways too earn money in this game - especially as an elite class.

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Tranced wrote:

but i forgot youre balanced, and the balancing factor must be that you have to spend more money and dont have as much time because you have to craft. if youre an elite class money shouldnt be a problem, and if you dont like crafting then dont craft - buy your poison. in my mind the money you have to spend shouldnt balance the fact that youre the best pvp attacker AND healer. crafting is generally a skill for people to sell what they make, so saying that you cant make money makes absolutely no sense in my mind, theres enough ways too earn money in this game - especially as an elite class.

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the crafted items we make can only be sold to other CM's so not a whole lot of money there. Our poisons do not count for the mission terminals, so we don't get the 10k missions like BH and commandos, unless we travel to the advanced planets. With all the changes they are making on TC who know's how long anyone will be able to pull missions from the terminals on advanced planets. CM's as a profession have a very high outflow of cash to maintain a stock of needed resources to stay competitive.There is not a high enough demand for the resources we use for other proffessions to bother harvesting them for us, so good luck finding them on the market, and if you do they are normally way overpriced.If you ever try playing a CM you would understand why an elite class can have problems with making money.

oh, and a person has at least 20 seconds before they are incapped from mind poison unless they are a rifleman or BH spamming specials.

4) and if you dont like crafting then dont craft - buy your poison

You have to get crafting 4 to get master CM.

going to bed so ill try to spend moe time reading your post. just some quick notes:

generally when i talk about pvp im talking about out in the open. the reason why is because you choose to go into a tight area like a med center, and you can choose not to go in there. if theres a guy standing by the door then dont go in, simple as that. as far as being out in the open you dont have anywhere to go (or hide).

oh lets see, also as far as "real life" or "in game" either/or works. im making that statement based on both rl and what i think should happen in the game.

as far as money yes that is an issue but not as large a one as i believe you are making it. when discussing balancing that should never come up, because frankly it doesnt matter unless a profession's costsare much higher than any others. everybody has costs (ie: probe droids etc.) in the game.

as far as bh being the best pvper in a city this comes down to the range issue, because yes you can sneak around trees and buildings, but the fact that you have to do that puts you at a very large disadvantage anyway.

being able to hit from 80m in the open eliminates every single profession from pvp with the exception of bhs who "are the best close-quarter fighter." rifleman get the shaft, which are suppose to be the long range mind dealers, along with everybody else. even using the argument (which i dont agree with) that because you spent more points that you should be better than a rifleman doesnt mean youre suppose to neutralise him completely. if that was the case then bh (who would be considered the best pvper by the standard of skill points) should be able to take out large groups of elite classes singlehandly every single time, with no leeway for the other elite classes to win.

and finally:

"1) you can outrange any class in the game."

frankly, what makes this worse is that youre attack is a mind attack, is quick (dont tell me its not quick, its much more potent and fast than any other bleed in the game - including flame which can be healed with stims by the way), is aoe, doesnt get affected by armor, hasnt had the 75% pvp reduction, and is very hard to cure (unlike bleeds - one first aid does it, with poison 2 c packs are traditionally required) makes poison way too powerful not to have somebody raise an eyebrow to it. nobody can dominate a group of elite classses, hell nobody even comes close, when compared to cm.

(sorry for anything thats incoherent, its late)