Combat Medic Archive
Thread: So what are CMs going to gain to mitigate this nerf?
Kragen77
Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:06 am
#131
MyT_Chicken wrote:
You're ignorant. CM's will still be just as powerful as before.
It is cry babies like you who brought changes like this about.
Don't worry, you will have something new to cry about when they decide to nerf buff and armor next.
I can't wait.
And watch who you call ignorant you troll. Niamb is one of the few people here who is trying to discuss this in a civilized fashion. Now go back into that box you call a home
Gnuut
Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:29 am
#132
What you all don'tunderstand is CMs are not asking to be damage dealers or devastating in PVP.
We want our profession to be worth 169 points that we spend to master it.
Area Heals? Doesn't cut it.
Ranged Heals? Doesn't cut it.
Mind Heals? Doesn't cut it.
Poison and disease in it's current form? You guessed it. Doesn't cut it.
Kragen77
Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:37 am
#133
Gnuut wrote:
What you all don'tunderstand is CMs are not asking to be damage dealers or devastating in PVP.
We want our profession to be worth 169 points that we spend to master it.
Area Heals? Doesn't cut it.
Ranged Heals? Doesn't cut it.
Mind Heals? Doesn't cut it.
Poison and disease in it's current form? You guessed it. Doesn't cut it.
Yes exactly! Things has to change. Simply negating the advantage we haddoes not solve the problem.
Why did both innoculations and area cures have to go to doctors? Why couldnt we get one and doctors get the other?
Arcurium
Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:46 am
#134
As buffs, armor, and weapon damage gets a hefty beat down, the importance of combat medics in groups will become of greater importance. Right now, other than buff packs, doctors have very little use in PvE. If you followed an armored, buffed TKM around hoping for medical experience, you would be wasting your time. They are hardly damaged at all. And they can heal their own wounds. Wait for more changes, then the usefulness of ranged and area stims will prove itself much more useful.
,Veusheesras Teacas
Kragen77
Sat Jul 31, 2004 12:55 am
#135
Arcurium wrote:
As buffs, armor, and weapon damage gets a hefty beat down, the importance of combat medics in groups will become of greater importance. Right now, other than buff packs, doctors have very little use in PvE. If you followed an armored, buffed TKM around hoping for medical experience, you would be wasting your time. They are hardly damaged at all. And they can heal their own wounds. Wait for more changes, then the usefulness of ranged and area stims will prove itself much more useful.
,Veusheesras Teacas
I agree, but the question is will it happen.
As a guildmate of mine said. Buff and Armor revamp is one of the sacroscant types of issues which folks always threaten to quit about. If a TKM, Swordsman or Commando..etccan't suddenly solo a high end mob they will cry till the cows come home.
I hope the buff/armor revamp happens, but I really doubt it will
Brainplay
Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:26 am
#136
Gavvot wrote:
neutrineaux wrote:
Gavvot wrote:
And even if CM is partialy combat related, it is not an elite combat prof.
And it's shouldn't deal the same kind of damage as a full, and only combat profession. We are only capable of that thanks to armor and chef defense foods. Fix thoses and that solves a big issue. Not to mention I use up more points as a CM than any "elite" profession and I still cant come close toequaling them in PvE.
ahem, cm is an elite and a hybrid profession, actually.*
we should not deal tons of damage? why not? it is an elite/hybrid profession which uses biological and chemical weapons. that is all about hurting a lot of people badly at the same time. yup
*elite = requires a master level in an entry profession
*hybrid = requires elements of two or more entry professions
You don't get the point.
I'm all for giving the damage output of other combat prof to CM.
Only for one counter part : They cannot heal at all. Yeah too bad healing can be taken care of by a novice medic, is not a major issue, is rarely needed except for high end PvE.
Even if CM is a combat profession, it is not a pure damage dealing profession. We're also not a pure healing profession either. Like the devs and the book says, we're both and we choose how we want to play it yet it more beneficial to poison/disease since there is large lack of healing needed in this game. The only MMO, board game, card game, or any other type of combat oriented game where there is a lack of healing and a dedicated healer.
SL don't have uber damage dealing. No they are the only profession who's sole purpose is to augment a group. That definition is stated in the book and by the devs. Currently their support ability suxxors and need alot of fixing.
BH neither, they have some usefull stuff and their own Mission. I have a BH and I have yet to see what all of the complaining is about especially now that the point requirement has been lifted. The only thing that hurts BH now is the switch delay and of course god-like jedi. BH has always been a serious PvP asset 1v1.
You get the picture?
A combat profession elite or hybrid or whatever you want is not only offense and defense.
There are more stuff out there, and eliminate them from the equation, of course CM damage output will looks like it sux badly, but guess what, that's normal, because a game is about balance, and to have balance, you have to take into account everything, not just DPS and defense. Since when is this game or these changesabout balance? It just made the Doctor profession the most relied upon profession on and off the battlefield. Now I will have to either go doctor or join the commando/ranger/squad leader ranks and wait till next year's (or so they keep saying) revamp before I become a viable combat AND medical support profession.
Comparing Combat Medic to other broken professions is just plain stupid. If this stuff goes live even those "broken" professions will have more viability than Combat Medics.
I'd post more but Neutrineaux is beating me to it and doing a good job.
Nisdain
Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:34 am
#137
According to many CMs the groups dont have doctors, so nothings really changed if that were true 
BigLands
Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:37 am
#138
I understadn you're not happy - but let's be honest -CM's were historically radically overpowered in PvP.
(I'm a pistoleer/smuggler so I've been on the receiving end of CM several times and it was over the top)
Having said that, I do believe there needs to be a trade off between taking away so much and giving something back.
Might I suggest that you ask for one/several of the following:
Short duration ranged area state effects:
(Chemical weapon packs similar to modern CS gas)
Blind and/or Dizzy
Targetted / Area effect Debuff
If Doctors can buff, shouldn't the counter to that be debuffs from CMs?
A large debuff on a single target, a small debuff on an area of targets
Area effect State resists
Ranged packs that boost (say ranging from +5 atlow levels up to+20 at mastervs Dizzy, Blind, Stun etc for a short duration
The converse could also be an idea - Area effect State resist reduction packs - though that would require waaay more balancing.
Gavvot
Sat Jul 31, 2004 3:38 am
#139
We are only capable of that thanks to armor and chef defense foods. Fix thoses and that solves a big issue. Not to mention I use up more points as a CM than any "elite" profession and I still cant come close to equaling them in PvE.
You are capable of much more, you just don't care.
Yeah too bad healing can be taken care of by a novice medic, is not a major issue, is rarely needed except for high end PvE.
Yeah, a novice medic can heal a whole group that take 1k damage after armor in each hit...
We're also not a pure healing profession either. Like the devs and the book says, we're both and we choose how we want to play it yet it more beneficial to poison/disease since there is large lack of healing needed in this game. The only MMO, board game, card game, or any other type of combat oriented game where there is a lack of healing and a dedicated healer.
Well, welcome to the real world.
When a profession is hybrid, meaning they can do 2 different and usefull things, usually, specific profession in one of the field is much better than them.
Guess why?
Because they do not have the other part.
No they are the only profession who's sole purpose is to augment a group. That definition is stated in the book and by the devs. Currently their support ability suxxors and need alot of fixing.
No, they are not the only profession who's sole purpose is to augment a group.
CM is too.
And their support ability is great.
Since when is this game or these changes about balance? It just made the Doctor profession the most relied upon profession on and off the battlefield. Now I will have to either go doctor or join the commando/ranger/squad leader ranks and wait till next year's (or so they keep saying) revamp before I become a viable combat AND medical support profession.
This change is about balance because CM poison disease is not balanced in PvP.
You can deny it if you want, lots of people will laugh at you, but that's your call.
Don't get me wrong, for me Doc is currently the most imbalanced profession in the game (way before CM).
And I don't like the way they treated this balance issue.
But something had to be done, and be made quickly, so that's what we have.
If you want a trade off, the best idea I've seen so far is the debuff idea.
Ask for a buff that lower stats value for a short period of time.
Max it at 500, and allow them to stack.
More tactical moves for everyone.
Or, make it % based and maxed at 30% of the stat.
This way it'll be also very usefull in PvE.
The problem is that like those new stuff, it's only a temporary fix that would have to be removed when buff are tweaked.
You are capable of much more, you just don't care.
Yeah too bad healing can be taken care of by a novice medic, is not a major issue, is rarely needed except for high end PvE.
Yeah, a novice medic can heal a whole group that take 1k damage after armor in each hit...
We're also not a pure healing profession either. Like the devs and the book says, we're both and we choose how we want to play it yet it more beneficial to poison/disease since there is large lack of healing needed in this game. The only MMO, board game, card game, or any other type of combat oriented game where there is a lack of healing and a dedicated healer.
Well, welcome to the real world.
When a profession is hybrid, meaning they can do 2 different and usefull things, usually, specific profession in one of the field is much better than them.
Guess why?
Because they do not have the other part.
No they are the only profession who's sole purpose is to augment a group. That definition is stated in the book and by the devs. Currently their support ability suxxors and need alot of fixing.
No, they are not the only profession who's sole purpose is to augment a group.
CM is too.
And their support ability is great.
Since when is this game or these changes about balance? It just made the Doctor profession the most relied upon profession on and off the battlefield. Now I will have to either go doctor or join the commando/ranger/squad leader ranks and wait till next year's (or so they keep saying) revamp before I become a viable combat AND medical support profession.
This change is about balance because CM poison disease is not balanced in PvP.
You can deny it if you want, lots of people will laugh at you, but that's your call.
Don't get me wrong, for me Doc is currently the most imbalanced profession in the game (way before CM).
And I don't like the way they treated this balance issue.
But something had to be done, and be made quickly, so that's what we have.
If you want a trade off, the best idea I've seen so far is the debuff idea.
Ask for a buff that lower stats value for a short period of time.
Max it at 500, and allow them to stack.
More tactical moves for everyone.
Or, make it % based and maxed at 30% of the stat.
This way it'll be also very usefull in PvE.
The problem is that like those new stuff, it's only a temporary fix that would have to be removed when buff are tweaked.
Message Edited by Gavvot on 07-31-2004 01:14 PM
Bob_the_tomato
Sat Jul 31, 2004 4:54 am
#140
The official combat medic description:
"A healer who who also has some field training to increase his odds of survival in battle"
That's on page 75 of the new manual.
Niamb
Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:47 am
#141
Thanks for your imput BigLands. That is the sort of response I was hoping to generate. It seems to me thatthe thoughtful posters agree that CMs have been overpowered in PvP and that is bad for the game. But destroying a profession is also bad for the game. With the kind of results seen in TC from the resist buffs CM will no longer be a factor in PvP. They have never been a factor in PvE (believe me, I use my son's MTKM character, I know what effective looks like). The advantages of armor and buffs have totally negated the value of ranged heals. While an armor/buff nerf might concievably take place down the road, it's not here now and given the huge uproar it would create from folks who are accustomed to soloing rancors, I frankly doubt it will ever be implemented.
Giving these areacures and resist buffs to doctors will completely remove the one thing that made Combat Medic a worthwhile profession to pursue. Before these changes actually go live, SOE needs to consider what abilities they can add to CM to make it worth the 169 skill points it requires or they will have yet another dead profession on their hands. Things like area debuffs or area effect state resists would be the sort of thing which could allow CM to continue to be a viable profession while toning down their overweaning dominance in PvP. But it has to be applied at the same time the area cures and resist buffs go live or this will be be one more broken profession, not scheduled to be fixed for any time in the forseeable future.
Bob, that one sentence description of the Combat Medic profession is not new. That has always been part of the Adventure Manual and was published concurrent with the Primus Official SWG guide. These one sentence descriptions in the manual give no insight into what any of the professions really entail and since the Primus description was published at the same time and goes on for one page, as opposed to one sentence, I would go with the fuller more detailed description. After all, if SOE only meant for CMs to be solely support, why give them disease and poison packs at all? Combat medics were always intended to play both a combat and a support role. It was removing mind healing that gave CMs such an overweaning advantage and that might be another way to compensate and keep this profession viable....give them a usable way to heal mind. That would play into the emphasis on the support side of CM you appear to advocate. As /healmind exists now it is far too damaging to be used in any but the most extreme situations. A few /healminds and your CM is out play, too wounded to heal anyone. Giving CMs a usable way to heal the minds of his/her comrades and still be able to stay in play would be another way to compensate for the loss to the profession's offensive abilities.
I'm already a master doc so I'm gaining inthat profession. I just hate to see one more profession destroyed, which CM will be if they are not given sufficient compensating abilites to make the 169 skill points invested worthwhile.
Bamboozle
Sat Jul 31, 2004 5:52 am
#142
Funzoner wrote:
Increased Defense. Reason: We only have +2 melee and +8 ranged. If we're going to be in the same 64m limit as everyone else, trying to heal everyone else, taking several shots to try and land an offensive med, we deservea better chance at defense then a measly +2/+8.
A lot of combat classes, such as Bounty Hunter, have even less defense than that. You won't be getting any extra defense.
Bounty hunters have +24 ranged defense (which isn't much), but they also have ranged mitigation, which helps a lot.
Pahdbacca
Sat Jul 31, 2004 6:43 am
#143
FYI, the little bit of defence that CMs get does NOT come from the CM tree. CMS get absolutely, positivly no defence bonuses in any of the CM skill boxes (unlike other combat professions such as dancer and musician, which do....check it and see)