Combat Medic Archive
Thread: So what are CMs going to gain to mitigate this nerf?
Morbius858 wrote:
For over a year, Combat-Medics have dominated PvP. With outcries for a nerf for over a year. First with the massive range,112meters and then some, with poisons that incap players. Then they got fixed. 96meter range, poisons that didn't incap, but poison and disease that could very easily incap together, Havla that caused even more problems.
Now they get balanced. They can't throw over 64m, they won't be able to throw and hit every single time, which was rediculous to begin with.
Combat-Medic - A support profession. One of the 3 in the game, was being used as a heavy offensive. 800tick poisons that would render a 3500 mind bar to 1 point in less thanone minute.
Combat-Medic has been over-powered for a year, and when it gets brought down to balance, crying is heard throughout the galaxy.
Flame me all you want, I love fan mail.
does calling you an ignoramous count as fan mail?
Funzoner wrote:
vortexala wrote:
Funzoner wrote:
Moot point. CM is not a combat profession, it's a healing/support profession. You can't expect the same damage output as an offensive profession, when offense is not your primary role.
vortexala wrote:
Every other combat class also has MORE then two offensive specials. Every other combat class also has a way of acheiving initial damage with their attacks. Every other combat profession doesn't have to worry about healing their team in the thick of battle while dodging fire. It's a simple request from the CM Community, wether or not you approve is irrelevant.
Reading is FUNdamental. Really, it is.
We're not asking for increased damage output. We're asking for increased DEFENSE. Every other Combat Profession has better defense to go alongside their offense. Bounty Hunter doesn't get any. Commando barely gets any, except a little in the master box. If/when those professions get some defense, you might have a solid point there. All we want is an increase in defense at this point. That's nice! Ask away for it! Doesn't mean you'll get it.
As to your whole "You're not a combat profession" nonsense, seriously, get some new material. That's been used ad nauseum on this board and is STILL as irrelevant from the likes of you as it was from those who came before you. It's been said over and over, because it's the truth. CM was never intended to have as strong an offense as it had, If the devs intended it to have strong offense, why are they nerfing it now? If CM was "working as intended" they wouldn't be changing anything.
bounty hunter doesn't get ranged mitigation 3? 20+ ranged? you should crawl back under the bridge now.
Funzoner wrote:
Kragen77 wrote:
Well since you don't have a red title on your name and obivioulsy don't work for LA or SoE (cause you sure have no club about the game) Everything you post here is simply your opinion. You want to say CM are support. You go ahead.
The rest of us consider ourselves Combat Chars.
Have a nice day
Ok, then explain to me why CM offense just got nerfed. If CM offense was "working as intended" no nerf would have taken place.
But hey don't take my word for it, that CM isn't supposed to be "combat" look at the patch notes, taking that very ability away from you!
Doesn't take someone with a red name saying it to make it obvious.
Then again, maybe for someone thick-headed like you, it DOES take that.
you really are clueless
Funzoner wrote:
yebach wrote:
Funzoner wrote:
As stated by the DEVs in the 19 questions thread, the ultimate authority on whether a CM should be support or offense is the CM who plays the profession.
Sure, you can play any profession, any way you want to. By the same logic, I can play architect as an offensivecombat profession (doesn't mean I'll be any GOOD at combat by doing so).
And just so you know, that dev quote is a diplomatic way of them avoiding having to actually come out and say "CM isn't supposed to be offensive, so we're nerfing it," because if they came out and said that, it would piss people off. Like you.
Loonytic wrote:
Funzoner wrote:
Kragen77 wrote:
Well since you don't have a red title on your name and obivioulsy don't work for LA or SoE (cause you sure have no club about the game) Everything you post here is simply your opinion. You want to say CM are support. You go ahead.
The rest of us consider ourselves Combat Chars.
Have a nice day
Ok, then explain to me why CM offense just got nerfed. If CM offense was "working as intended" no nerf would have taken place.
But hey don't take my word for it, that CM isn't supposed to be "combat" look at the patch notes, taking that very ability away from you!
Doesn't take someone with a red name saying it to make it obvious.
Then again, maybe for someone thick-headed like you, it DOES take that.
CM offense didn't get nerfed, doc (once again) gotsimply got some lovin... These are not perma buffs people are getting, only the well prepared will even be buffed, most people I doubt caught by an attacking forcewill be buffed andby all reports these only last about an hour.
What the PvP CMs are going to do now is create high potency venom poisons 200+ potencyfor anyone that is using these buffs, and normal power poisons for all the other ppl they catch thats not buffed. These buffs are not going to be the end of CM in PvP
for those of us who do not spam poison/dz, it will severely limit our usefulness as compared to novice medic.
Funzoner wrote:
Kragen77 wrote:
Funzoner wrote:
Kragen77 wrote:
Well since you don't have a red title on your name and obivioulsy don't work for LA or SoE (cause you sure have no club about the game) Everything you post here is simply your opinion. You want to say CM are support. You go ahead.
The rest of us consider ourselves Combat Chars.
Have a nice day
Ok, then explain to me why CM offense just got nerfed. If CM offense was "working as intended" no nerf would have taken place.
But hey don't take my word for it, that CM isn't supposed to be "combat" look at the patch notes, taking that very ability away from you!
Doesn't take someone with a red name saying it to make it obvious.
Then again, maybe for someone thick-headed like you, it DOES take that.
Whatever...at this point you just want to hear yourself talk.
We are not asking for a way to deal uber damage. Simply a way to make us a more useful class over all. No one here is saying that there shouldnt be some counterblanace to our poison. We simply want to have more support abilities and not have all these abilities given to doctors.
But of course you are focused on being a troll and calling people names. So go ahead. I would love a reason to report you to the moderators and get you banned anyway
Have a nice day
I didn't call anyone names, though I did get called a troll by several people.
Whatever, though, I don't care.
You don't have to read my posts, listen to my ideas, or respond to them, if you don't like what I have to say.
However, dont try and act like you are leaving because I acted improperly. You'requitting this argument because you lost, plain and simple.
You have a nice day too.
they did not lose. you are just so clueless it become pointless to proceed
Funzoner wrote:
Kragen77 wrote:
Funzoner wrote:
Kragen77 wrote:
Funzoner wrote:
Kragen77 wrote:
Well since you don't have a red title on your name and obivioulsy don't work for LA or SoE (cause you sure have no club about the game) Everything you post here is simply your opinion. You want to say CM are support. You go ahead.
The rest of us consider ourselves Combat Chars.
Have a nice day
Ok, then explain to me why CM offense just got nerfed. If CM offense was "working as intended" no nerf would have taken place.
But hey don't take my word for it, that CM isn't supposed to be "combat" look at the patch notes, taking that very ability away from you!
Doesn't take someone with a red name saying it to make it obvious.
Then again, maybe for someone thick-headed like you, it DOES take that.
Whatever...at this point you just want to hear yourself talk.
We are not asking for a way to deal uber damage. Simply a way to make us a more useful class over all. No one here is saying that there shouldnt be some counterblanace to our poison. We simply want to have more support abilities and not have all these abilities given to doctors.
But of course you are focused on being a troll and calling people names. So go ahead. I would love a reason to report you to the moderators and get you banned anyway
Have a nice day
I didn't call anyone names, though I did get called a troll by several people.
Whatever, though, I don't care.
You don't have to read my posts, listen to my ideas, or respond to them, if you don't like what I have to say.
However, dont try and act like you are leaving because I acted improperly. You'requitting this argument because you lost, plain and simple.
You have a nice day too.
How about reading your own post. Calling people thick-headed?
I'm not quiting any argument. in fact it's not much of an argument. All you keep saying is "your are not a combat class". Devs nerfed us because we were not "working as intended".
Hard to argue with someone who simply keeps repeating the same 2 lines.
And you had the nerve to call me thick-headed.
I repeated that point, because you failed to respond to it, and you still haven't.
If CM is supposed to be an offensive class, why is its offensive capabilty being intentionally weakened by the devs, in the form of counters to it, range reduction, throw time reduction, etc.
If YOU were a dev, and CM was SUPPOSED to be offensive, you wouldn't nerf it.
Then again, if its NOT SUPPOSED to be offensive, wouldn't it make sense to reduce that capability?
Simple point.
It's there for you to understand.
I haveled you to the water trough.Now you must drink, horse. (oh jeez i called you another name)
Gnuut wrote:
Funzoner wrote: The "play it however you want" quote is one of their ways of trying to be diplomatic and not piss people off. There IS a difference between what the devs tell us, and what they intend. It would be naive to believe otherwise.
As opposed to making up "facts" and posting ignorantly?
lol
Funzoner wrote:
Kragen77 wrote:
Now this is getting funny. Again for the 20th time today. I have not argued against thefact they added the ability to counteract CM poisons. Read allof my posts and you will not see that ONCE.
My comments were not directed solely towards you and your comments, except at the end.
What I am argunig about id the fact they gave all of these newhealing powers to another profession. Thus takingthe only thing that made us a viable class in thefirst place and giving us nothing in return.
That wouldn't make sense to make CM be its own counterprofession. That would make CM's EVEN MORE dominant.
NO ONE here wants to debate the fact that poisons made us TOO strong in pvp.
That's not true at all. Maybe YOU aren't arguing for it, but quite a few people on these forums argue that it's unfair CM's got nerfed, and that they were "never overpowered in the first place." I never said YOU said that, but there are people on here saying it.
i have not seen anyone say that the venom poisons are appropriately powered for the game to be balanced.
but of course you insist on argunig a point no one is debating.
Like I said, some people, maybe not you, are debating it.
who?
Let memake this perfectly clear for you. These are some of the things that I (and many other CM's) would like to see. We don't need to have them all, but 1 or 2 of these things would be a help to our profession:
1) 1 of the 2 new healing capabilities given to docotrs put into the CM profession (either area cures or innoculations
Wouldn't make sense for CM to be its own counterclass. Would make CM's even more dominant than they already are.
combat medics cause damage and heal damage already. that is the nature of combat medic. that is one reaosn it is unique. we are healers and wounders. ew are already our own "counter-class"
2) Either the elimination of the range support
branch or some new skill to compenstate for the extra 29 sp's we spend more than doctors (Mind Healing Stims? The ability to heal mind without such a severe penalty)
Hey I don't disagree with that. Personally, I think CM should get state heals, and some other stuff to make them the best TACTICAL support class.
On that "29 extra skill points" note, lets keep in mind you're the only class that doesnt have to spend points in scout to get terrain negotiation. I think that alone makes up for your 29 skill points you have to "waste" on ranged support.
if you get the scout terrain skill, you also get harvesting, camps, mask scent... more points shoudl give you more goodies. spend those same points to get cm, and the goodies fall off.
3) An equal nerf of doctor buffs and or armor effectivness so that CM have something tot "support" in game. ie. damage to actually heal
They've already said that's happening, but not till combat balance. Buffs and armor are both getting nerfed. And for the record, I completely agree with it.
4) Increase the effectivness of our stims so we are more in par with docotrs in the field.
/agree
5) Increase our defense. Like it our not we are a hybrid class. That means we are partcombat and part medic. All other combat lines have some sort of defense bonuses. We are just lookingfor SOMEthing which complements our profession.
I don't entirely have a problem with this idea, however, seeing as how there are still combat classes that lack defenses, and this is supposed to be a "combat revamp" issue, chances are you wont see it until then, if ever
rebutted elsewhere - basically not true
Again let me point this out so you don't miss the point....
We are not asking that things stay the way they have been for the past year. We do not need to be major damage dealers.
Some people are asking for that, though once again, not you.
who?
We are simply looking tobe a viable profession in our own right.
Hey, I think every profession deserves that in some way, though some people lose perspective and don't understand that "being viable" doesn't necessarily mean "having your cake, and every other profession's cake, and eating it too."
does this actually mean anything?
Is this simple enough for you to understand
you did not respond to this one...
now or do I need to get my crayons and draw a picture?
OOH! Crayons! Crayons are fun!
neutrineaux wrote:
Gavvot wrote:
Happymob wrote:
Gavvot wrote:Do you think MDE worth 140 skill points?
I let this slide in the earlier post, butmaster droid engineer is not 140 skill points. It is 92 skill points, like every other artisan-based profession. Granted, they have a very heavy need for master artisan products, so most DEs go ahead and get master artisan as well (the 140 skill points), but there is a difference between a skill requirement and something that is "very nice to have". Chefs depend extremely heavilyon bio-engineers, but that hardly makes them a 213 skill point crafting profession.
For what it's worth, I think that droid engineers do get a raw deal on dependencies compared to the more lucrative weaponsmith and armorsmith.
As far as I know, BE tissue are very usefull to enhance food.
They are not required part of every single food a chef can make.
Without MA, a DE can do about MSE BOOM droids, and maybe a couple others droids.
He'll need novice DE for the MSE and Master DE for the detonation module.
MA is not something very nice to have for a DE, it's an unwritten requirement.
Take a look at the droid schematics before arguing on that...
And I'm not even talking about the need of some merchant skill to have a chance to sell something.Message Edited by Gavvot on 07-30-2004 08:15 PM
you are confusing requirement with the need to find suppliers. it is not required. it is very handy. otherwise, get a master artisan partner. lord knows they need something to do besides build speeders.
When you need a couple of thousand Master Artisan every week even if your business is really really slow, that is not handy, that is required.
neutrineaux wrote:
Gavvot wrote:
SolSpur wrote:Granted, TKM can do a little more damage than CM in PvEDo you seriously think tkm can do "a little" more damage then cms in pve?A cm at best can do about 600 damage, once every 10 SECONDSA tkm can do double every second.Either you dont know anything about CMs and just mislead or your a troll. You decide.
Well, I'm TKM.
I know I can't do 600 dmg in 10 seconds in PvP.
Even against a non combat prof.
Do the math.
Assuming a TKM do 1K dmg per headhit 1 (truth is less but anyway).
PvP reduction, 250.
Basic kinetic resist most armor have :80%
After armor : 50.
So, even if the enemy has no dodge/counterattack/block, no toughness and no melee defense, the TKM still do less than 600 dmg every 10 seconds.
If, by any luck he can land a KD, for sure it'll increase his damage output.
But in PvP, that's once in a big while.
I didn't added the damage modifier depending of the weapon the enemy is wearing, so indeed damage can be a little higher against for exemple a rifleman if he decide to stand still and not move in front of a TKM...
And that's if the TKM is using a good damage sliced VK. Wich will cost him alot of HAM for every special.
Beside, most of the people think that TKM is THE ultimate damage dealer.
That is far from the truth.
The truth is the damage output of a TKM is one of his weakness.
The TKM job is tank.
His job is to pick and keep the aggro.
That's why he have high speed and accuracy.
As he's supposed to take alot of damage that's also why he does have pretty good defense.
And it's the same reason that his main advantage are states attacks.
That's why in PvP a TKM against an even partial doc that can heal states is toasted.
having hunted pve extensively with tkm, master fencer, & master swordsman, i can say that the damage dealt by them in pve is impressively more than what i can manage as a cm. way WAY more. it is even impressively more than i can manage as a master cm/master carbineer.
We're talking about PvP here.
This change only affect PvP.
Beside, if you want a proof that something had to be done because poison was not balanced, look at the difference of your effectiveness in PvE and PvP.
neutrineaux wrote:
Gavvot wrote:
Make it so a CM could solo like a TKM in PvE by making poisons and disease more effective against NPCs and MOBs.
Hum, a DE use 140 Skill points, he doesn't own everything is PvP or PvE.
but, that's not a combat prof blablabla.
a SL use also alot of skill point and cannot solo anything.
a smuggler use alot of skill point, but he cannot own everything.
a ranger use...
a commando...
a BH...
...
...
Each profession has a role, and the role of CM is not to own everything. PvP or PvE.
Granted, TKM can do a little more damage than CM in PvE, but they cannot poison, they cannot heal their damage, they cannot heal their wounds, poison, disease in combat.
Yeah, they can heal some stuff, with meditate, not in combat, not possible when on fire, not possible when intimidated...
Each profession has a role.
Each profession has strengh and weakness.
And even if CM is partialy combat related, it is not an elite combat prof.
And it's shouldn't deal the same kind of damage as a full, and only combat profession.ahem, cm is an elite and a hybrid profession, actually.*
we should not deal tons of damage? why not? it is an elite/hybrid profession which uses biological and chemical weapons. that is all about hurting a lot of people badly at the same time.
*elite = requires a master level in an entry profession
*hybrid = requires elements of two or more entry professions
You don't get the point.
I'm all for giving the damage output of other combat prof to CM.
Only for one counter part : They cannot heal at all.
Even if CM is a combat profession, it is not a pure damage dealing profession.
SL don't have uber damage dealing.
BH neither, they have some usefull stuff and their own Mission.
You get the picture?
A combat profession elite or hybrid or whatever you want is not only offense and defense.
There are more stuff out there, and eliminate them from the equation, of course CM damage output will looks like it sux badly, but guess what, that's normal, because a game is about balance, and to have balance, you have to take into account everything, not just DPS and defense.
KirmorOrion wrote:
We're still good in group PVP. So Doctors can heal our attacks, big deal... it will just change the way we strategize things now. You can't deny the fact that we were too powerful, so they just made us a less powerful, but our attacks are still devastating.
I don't think our attacks will be devastating. Here is what the combination of innoculations and area cures does to us:
To get a decent hit rate, I have to experiment up potency and sacrifice power and area. According to this thread, a B innoculation will generally take out a C poison. We don't know what a C innoculation will do. But to even handle the Bs, I have to experiment up potency. This doesn't even factor in the resist food and skill tapes, which were currently of limited usefulness, but now may matter when combined with the innoculations.
If I max out potency, I lose 160 damage per tick (approximately 33% of my damage on non-loot poisons).So now I miss more, and I do less damage.
The innoculation Cs have a rating called "absorption". This will decrease the damage further when a poison manages to get through the resists. So now you have been hit by a 33% damage-reduced poison that your innoculation reduces even further.
At this point, your group doctor will hit his area cure C, which will take care of that poison. In fact, his AOE will probably be larger than the poison AOE (since the CM had to sacrifice area for potency). We know that some B area cures have been made with 22m area. These probably did not use ADMs maxed on area. And Cs will go for higher yet.
If the firstarea cure wasn't enough because you are facing 4 combat medics and you only have 1 doctor, the doctor eats havlaand spams another couple of cures.
Here's the bottom line - if the changes on test go live, a single, good doctor will be able to keep his group of 20 cured against multiple combat medics. The only way we are still devastating is if their is no doctor on the other side. So great, we can jump the occasional overt non-doc. That's not my idea of fun. Maybe I am missing the strategy that will bust through a group with a doctor (besides kill the doctor, but that's the same problem as the "kill the CM" strategy - if there's a cloner, the doc will be back).