Cities And Housing Archive
Thread: City Warn
cloudwalker1
Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:22 am
#14
city warn should be brought back with a two minute timer, If a player is there to access a POI in ur city they can and city warn is disabled whilst in POI boundaries. The moment they step out it is activated again for 2 mins. Plenty of time to leave
To stop player using POI as a exploit(like battlefields at the mo) once engaged in combat they have a tef which stops them entering said POI
GrafvonSoden
Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:18 am
#15
grayseven:
I don't know if you are a responsible adult or idiot kid
I'm offended by this statement. I've never been responsible 
Shadine
Thu Jan 27, 2005 11:25 am
#17
Grayseven I've choosen you to reply to, because I'll have the most fun with your argument. 
GraySeven wrote:
There are a limited number of cities per planet. Because this is a limited number, no matter how great your community is, it still isn't your city.
Incorrect, a city is the property of the mayor and the citizens of that city. They allow all others to use thier services so long as they behave in an acceptable manner. (Otherwise cityban wouldn't be around)
One star all you want, the simple fact is that no PC should ever have the ability to restrict access to ANYWHERE in a game. The game can, and CSR's can, but no one else. (I'd only one star you if I thought your argument is crap. I don't think that. I just disagree with what you say)
I don't know if you are a responsible adult or idiot kid, and I have no way of knowing. Neither does SOE and so they can't possibly give the ability to ban someone to you or me or anyone. (you contradict yourself, SOE gives City Militia & the mayor the ability to ban someone from using thier city)
What possible reason could you have to use /citywarn of /cityban? There are no good ones. Some guy comes in talking smack? /addignore is already in place, and fixes that problem. Since no one can do anything but talk smack, there is no need for any other option. (There is a good reason, building a city, a base, a house means saying. "This is mine(ours). If you want it. you have to take it from me(us). Cityban does not stop you from entering a town. It no longer gives you a TEF (which it should). Citywarn is the function used to remove someone whom you don't want in your city. This power was given to militia and the mayor, meaning that someone thought they were responsible enough to have this power.)
Why should I be able to go anywhere I want? Because I paid the same amount of money to play this game as you did, and should not have to worry about whether or not the city I'm shuttling into because its close to where I want to go has some punk who thinks griefing is funny. (first of all you are allowed to go anywhere you want, you sound like you a Bi*ching to the fact that if someone bans you you might have to drive a long way to get where you want to. SHUTTLE PORTS ARE A PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT. and if someone has set a city near or on a POI it doesn't stop you from visiting that POI, it just makes it more challenging. If you don't like challenge your playing the wrong game.)
And that is what it boils down to. If griefing is possible, griefing will happen. No content, even player cities made by others, should be restricted.
The Dev's agreed with this and fixed the problem. (the thing it "boils down to" is that Dev's have taken away one option of dealing with people you don't like, don't want, don't need in your city. This is wrong, because they don't have the time to deal with our grievences, but yet they take away our in game options)
And I do contribute to cities on my server. Every time I purchase items from vendors in these cities. I'm pretty sure that the city I spent 14million credits in purchasing resources from vendors was really happy with their 10%.... (cool you make sure that they all charge a sales tax? or did you just assume? what about the other cities? did you make a donation? I doubt it, but then again you might have. bottom line don't want to get citybanned or citywarned, don't go into a PC city. EVER.
Message Edited by GraySeven on 01-27-2005 10:10 AM
Now I'm going to move onto the productive part of my post.
City ban should be allowed. Personally I'd like it to fade after 30 days or so. Maybe be able to pay a fee to "patch things up" (to an NPC only). make it useable once per day. The fee would be set by the mayor. As for people who Grief by re-banning someone after they pay the fine. *shrug* oh well. Some people are a$$holes. if you go pay the fine a second time with him standing there, you're a fool. I don't think there should be any grace period because then someone could go unban themselves, attack a base and still leave on the shuttleport.
City Warn, however should only be useable by faction members that are militia that have a base in that town. This makes it a GCW thing not just aI don't like you thing. However having one of each bases would negate this feature.
Any one else have some additional thoughts?
Scoooter
Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:08 pm
#18
Shadine wrote:
Grayseven I've choosen you to reply to, because I'll have the most fun with your argument.
GraySeven wrote:
There are a limited number of cities per planet. Because this is a limited number, no matter how great your community is, it still isn't your city.
Incorrect, a city is the property of the mayor and the citizens of that city. They allow all others to use thier services so long as they behave in an acceptable manner. (Otherwise cityban wouldn't be around)
One star all you want, the simple fact is that no PC should ever have the ability to restrict access to ANYWHERE in a game. The game can, and CSR's can, but no one else. (I'd only one star you if I thought your argument is crap. I don't think that. I just disagree with what you say)
I don't know if you are a responsible adult or idiot kid, and I have no way of knowing. Neither does SOE and so they can't possibly give the ability to ban someone to you or me or anyone. (you contradict yourself, SOE gives City Militia & the mayor the ability to ban someone from using thier city)
What possible reason could you have to use /citywarn of /cityban? There are no good ones. Some guy comes in talking smack? /addignore is already in place, and fixes that problem. Since no one can do anything but talk smack, there is no need for any other option. (There is a good reason, building a city, a base, a house means saying. "This is mine(ours). If you want it. you have to take it from me(us). Cityban does not stop you from entering a town. It no longer gives you a TEF (which it should). Citywarn is the function used to remove someone whom you don't want in your city. This power was given to militia and the mayor, meaning that someone thought they were responsible enough to have this power.)
Why should I be able to go anywhere I want? Because I paid the same amount of money to play this game as you did, and should not have to worry about whether or not the city I'm shuttling into because its close to where I want to go has some punk who thinks griefing is funny. (first of all you are allowed to go anywhere you want, you sound like you a Bi*ching to the fact that if someone bans you you might have to drive a long way to get where you want to. SHUTTLE PORTS ARE A PRIVILEGE NOT A RIGHT. and if someone has set a city near or on a POI it doesn't stop you from visiting that POI, it just makes it more challenging. If you don't like challenge your playing the wrong game.)
And that is what it boils down to. If griefing is possible, griefing will happen. No content, even player cities made by others, should be restricted.
The Dev's agreed with this and fixed the problem. (the thing it "boils down to" is that Dev's have taken away one option of dealing with people you don't like, don't want, don't need in your city. This is wrong, because they don't have the time to deal with our grievences, but yet they take away our in game options)
And I do contribute to cities on my server. Every time I purchase items from vendors in these cities. I'm pretty sure that the city I spent 14million credits in purchasing resources from vendors was really happy with their 10%.... (cool you make sure that they all charge a sales tax? or did you just assume? what about the other cities? did you make a donation? I doubt it, but then again you might have. bottom line don't want to get citybanned or citywarned, don't go into a PC city. EVER.
Message Edited by GraySeven on 01-27-2005 10:10 AM
Now I'm going to move onto the productive part of my post.
City ban should be allowed. Personally I'd like it to fade after 30 days or so. Maybe be able to pay a fee to "patch things up" (to an NPC only). make it useable once per day. The fee would be set by the mayor. As for people who Grief by re-banning someone after they pay the fine. *shrug* oh well. Some people are a$$holes. if you go pay the fine a second time with him standing there, you're a fool. I don't think there should be any grace period because then someone could go unban themselves, attack a base and still leave on the shuttleport.
City Warn, however should only be useable by faction members that are militia that have a base in that town. This makes it a GCW thing not just aI don't like you thing. However having one of each bases would negate this feature.
Any one else have some additional thoughts?
I disgree, you are addumoing all bannings are faction related and not because of just a grieving player.
I have a rebel city, we leave covert imps and ban all overts on sight. They are pvpers and we do not want them ever to have an easy time gtting there or ever using the cloner.
However citywarn needs back in a non griving form
1) it needs a longer timer to give them time to get away (and if they leave the city limits before timer expires no militia TEF)
2) CSR's need special abilities that do not allow /citywarn to work on them
The last issue I do not have a solution. The other reason it was deemed grieving was people using it of afk players to gank them.
Also citywarn should not be faction related. Not all enemies to a city are imp/reb.
Banning should also stay as it is. Not going away. The mayor/malitia determined that person is an undesireable for wahtever reason. The only lift to the ban should be if that person pleads his/her case to the militia/mayor to be unbanned.
Rebelcapt
Thu Jan 27, 2005 6:59 pm
#19
Ok now, i was just perusing the forums and this happened to catch my eye....
GraySeven wrote:
There are a limited number of cities per planet. Because this is a limited number, no matter how great your community is, it still isn't your city. The Mayor and residents of that city pay taxes and other things to keep that city up, they also pay for and build the civic structures in that town so therefor its theirs.
One star all you want, the simple fact is that no PC should ever have the ability to restrict access to ANYWHERE in a game. The game can, and CSR's can, but no one else. I dont know when you started playing, but back in the day we did this thing called walking. And guess what you are able to walk (or ride) anywhere on any planet, so there for you not being restricted access. You just dont have the convenince of the option of a shuttle. These days with swoops you can drive across the planet in about 20 min. (try walkin it like the old days)
I don't know if you are a responsible adult or idiot kid, and I have no way of knowing. Neither does SOE and so they can't possibly give the ability to ban someone to you or me or anyone. City warn perhapes, but banning is sadly ineffective so big deal if your banned.
Why should I be able to go anywhere I want? Because I paid the same amount of money to play this game as you did, and should not have to worry about whether or not the city I'm shuttling into because its close to where I want to go has some punk who thinks griefing is funny. Again, Walk/ride where you need to go. Just about every thing in game is 15 min TOPS from the nearist starport.
And that is what it boils down to. If griefing is possible, griefing will happen. No content, even player cities made by others, should be restricted. Yet again, you can still go in the city, you just cant use its PRIVATELY owned facilities.
And I do contribute to cities on my server. Every time I purchase items from vendors in these cities. I'm pretty sure that the city I spent 14million credits in purchasing resources from vendors was really happy with their 10%.... You dont contribute to the city, you line the pockets of the vendor owners, and while some will donate cash, most just spend it on other stuff. In my city the credits from the vednors payed for a couple of gardens but not much else.
Message Edited by GraySeven on 01-27-2005 10:10 AM
And just a further question, you werent one of those folks that were against being able to ban people from houses back in the day were you.( i remember there being a stink about that at one point)
And also this aint no communist game where everything belongs to everyone and everyone gets everthing equaly (just doesnt work). You own what you make and earn. Player cities are the property of the players and are not static things.
Message Edited by Rebelcapt on 01-27-2005 06:02 PM
Scoooter
Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:26 pm
#20
GraySeven wrote:
I fully agree that individual home owners should have the right to restrict access to their homes. I also support the right of Merchants to restrict access to their vendors. However...
In "real life" the people who live in, say, Chicago, can not prohibit me from using the Airport, or coming into the city. I don't have to worry about cops looking at me, not liking what they see, and escorting me to the city limits with admonitions to not come back.
Creating the city was your PRIVILAGE. Not a right. You seem to think that making the city gives you some special rights to it, and this isn't true. Yes, you created it and you maintain it, but the only privilage this gives you is control of the infrastructure. Its a public area that all should be able to enjoy without worring about children griefing them.
Shuttle users pay your city a fee in addition to the travel cost. Visitors will most likely be shoppers, so they pay additional fees in the form of taxes. Visitors pay for what they use. People who live there pay for what they use too, through property tax and the like. Residents also have the sense of community. Residents can control who lives there.
So your Guild founded the city....congrats! Good job! But its a city, not a Guild hall or private residence. Cities denote public, not private.
If everyone could found their own city, then I would fully agree that you had a right to banning people. But that isn't the case. Their are hundreds of people on each server who were unable to make a city because the number of cities is FINITE. That means you have to share your city with those who didn't get to make one themselves.
Most people see Player-cities as Uber-guildhalls or Super Faction Bases. They are neither.
Yeah but Chicago is not involved in a Galactic Civil War
War makes a big difference on how a city takes measures to stay secure.
GraySeven
Fri Jan 28, 2005 3:04 pm
#21
Nope, don't see the GCW argument working...
Planets don't restrict me, even though in the EU ships were not allowed to leave the surface of Dathomir. Also, to restrict me without cause is a little too much, which /cityban and /citywarn both allow. I have no recourse, none. There are no Courts for me to petition, no steps I can take for reinstatement. Its all arbitrary to a few individuals without any control by SOE.
Power Corrupts. Yeah, most of us arguing this case are responible enough to use /cityban or warn in the spirit the Dev's meant, but if there is even one chance of one punk kid using it to grief, then its too much. And if its ever used to restrict someone for no better reason than "they don't live here" then its too much.
Both cases happened to numerous people, hence it is no more. Regardless of how YOU would use it, OTHERS would use it wrongly...
GraySeven
Sat Jan 29, 2005 1:23 am
#22
I fully agree that individual home owners should have the right to restrict access to their homes. I also support the right of Merchants to restrict access to their vendors. However...
In "real life" the people who live in, say, Chicago, can not prohibit me from using the Airport, or coming into the city. I don't have to worry about cops looking at me, not liking what they see, and escorting me to the city limits with admonitions to not come back.
Creating the city was your PRIVILAGE. Not a right. You seem to think that making the city gives you some special rights to it, and this isn't true. Yes, you created it and you maintain it, but the only privilage this gives you is control of the infrastructure. Its a public area that all should be able to enjoy without worring about children griefing them.
Shuttle users pay your city a fee in addition to the travel cost. Visitors will most likely be shoppers, so they pay additional fees in the form of taxes. Visitors pay for what they use. People who live there pay for what they use too, through property tax and the like. Residents also have the sense of community. Residents can control who lives there.
So your Guild founded the city....congrats! Good job! But its a city, not a Guild hall or private residence. Cities denote public, not private.
If everyone could found their own city, then I would fully agree that you had a right to banning people. But that isn't the case. Their are hundreds of people on each server who were unable to make a city because the number of cities is FINITE. That means you have to share your city with those who didn't get to make one themselves.
Most people see Player-cities as Uber-guildhalls or Super Faction Bases. They are neither.
dakuagi
Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:22 am
#23
just a quick question,if as is stated "shuttleports are a privlege" and "all your citys belong to everyone" then why on earth would the devs allow /cityban to still be in game this stops the player who recieves the ban from using such things as shuttleports ???
And why on earth would the devs have created militia ? i believe to control unruly persons who are not in keeping with the citys rules. And yes there are some greifing kids and adults who play this game but if thats the case you do not,unless you are a griefing mayor, add them to your militia. The people who are on the city militia where i live are responsible people who represent our guild wether it be in our city or in combat and if someone has issues with a cityban order they can send us a tell or confir with our mayor.
There is one city on my server who citybanned me for partaking in a pvp event in there city, i have not been back there since and subsequently have never spent my money on there products or shuttleport,it there loss.
City warn should be brought back to any city at level 4, this will be a reward for any one who has worked hard to recruit for there city/guild and maintain it to lvl 4.
By the way if you are allowed to go anywhere in game why am i not allowed to go insde the rebellion bunker? or further into jabbas?
or if i land in coronet and the corsecs attack the reason is because i am negative faction and they are militia.
Rebelcapt
Sat Jan 29, 2005 3:06 pm
#24
I was reading the reply and that word just hit me. We dont HAVE to do anything. Everyone in this game has the same oppertunities, its just that some dont jump on the band wagon fast enough and gotta catch up. City ban/warn is no differant than rebels goin to crackdown cities, they may be ran outta town by the residents. Also, every person has the chance to start a city in this game, ecspecialy now that politition doesnt take SP. While many of the large player cities will last for years. there are smaller ones poping up all the time that dont last long. Its just a matter of timing and getting people to join to get a city started.
GraySeven wrote:
If everyone could found their own city, then I would fully agree that you had a right to banning people. But that isn't the case. Their are hundreds of people on each server who were unable to make a city because the number of cities is FINITE. That means you have to share your city with those who didn't get to make one themselves.
Most people see Player-cities as Uber-guildhalls or Super Faction Bases. They are neither.
Coachjohn
Sat Jan 29, 2005 5:13 pm
#25
GraySeven wrote:
/citywarn and /cityban were the stupidest, most un-thoughtout things invented and should never come back.
Player cities are limited, and because there are a finite number of them, making it possible to render this area of content unaccessable to a given individual is wrong. All player cities belong to all people, not just a select few. A guild may be responsible for a city coming into being and growing, but that does not make that city the property of that guild. Player cities belong to all players, and giving the managers of a city the ability to exclude others for any reason is just wrong.
Player cities are mis-named. They should be called Player-created cities. Player cities denotes some for of ownership, which some people believe to be true. No matter how much of your resources, or time, or whatever individuals put into a city, it belongs to every player on that server and should be accessible to them.
If you have a problem with someone in a town, you /report him or her and let the CSR's deal with it. Players simply can't be trusted with any sort of power.
I disagree the cities are entirely owned by the people that built them. If they choose not to let a person into them then to bad for that person. Back when they had the city warn it was very useful for keeping scouts and trouble makers out of our def area and away from our bases. Even now when we are hit by pvp there is always 1-3 covert scout sitting in our area letting the others know our numbers and locations. I would love to see the city warn come back. I see a city no different then a house. You have the right to make your house private and allow who you want into it. The cities should be the same way. Not to mention the Role Playing aspects of cities. We use our city as a fortress. Its crazy to think that a fortress would just let anyone from any faction wander around its streets and bases.
We have the largest imperial city on Flurry. We get idiots from the other faction ( as I am sure the rebels get idiots from our faction) in our town all the time talking smack and being just a pain in the arse. IF city warn was still around I would guess those types would not be entering our town. Not to mention the BH's that are not welcomed with in our borders.
Bravo12
Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:16 pm
#26
All they had to do to alleviate the greifing was to allow the target of the /citywarn to defend themselves. A novice dancer noob on the militia should not be able to /citywarn a MBH or Jedi and be able to pound on them mercilessly until they leave the town. It would make sense that if you want to mess with a town, be prepared to fight the milita - if they want to take you on, they will /citywarn you and you can go at it. But, that whole thing about not being able to fight back was what did the command in. Since it went away, militia has no way of enforcing anything in the city short of the /cityban - and that really doesnt get the person out of the city, in fact, it delays them because they cant shuttle out anymore. Bring back the threat of being killed by on-duty militia, and it might keep people from being a$$hats in someone else's town.
If implemented properly, the /citywarn is used to allow the militia to get rid of greifers and exploiters and such that come to their town. As mentioned earlier, it would also allow faction-aligned cities to make pre-emptive strikes on enemy spies and scouts, rather than wait for their overt buddies to show up in force.
I think SOE might still have a problem with it, though, in that it allows unconsented PvP. Although, you can get around that by allowing mayors to "buy" and place npc militia throughout the city. A militia player has to /citywarn, but it causes the npc militia members to aggro on the person. Limit the number of npcs to a certain percentage of the city's population, like 20% (city of 50 residents could have up to 10 npcs), or have npcs of different difficulty levels and set a limit based on that. Or, as the weeks go by, the existing npcs can be "trained" to be tougher, armed with crafted/looted uber weapons and armor (like the way you can dress and equip vendors). That way, the /citywarn'ed player doesnt get into PvP, they fight npcs.
I'm at work, and have way too much time on my hands...
Message Edited by Bravo12 on 01-29-2005 10:20 PM
Message Edited by Bravo12 on 01-29-2005 10:23 PM