Chef Archive
Thread: Major change to drinks
Hm, all things considered now... I'm against it.
If animations for food and drink are in the works, let us 'equip' a buff item or stack [or force us to 'get item from crate' to evoke the emote, but adding a subcomponent is yet another mistake of adding work to a game.
So, I vote no.
BlueMorgoth wrote:
Akane, They tried to fix crafting to follow what the FAQ said on TC about 2-3 months ago. There was one almightly outcry from crafters of all professions at the time because it seriously killed the stats of so many things it wasn't funny. I believe that this is the devs 2nd pass at trying to fix the issue by taking a different approach. I suspect you will see similar-style changes progressively roll through the other crafting professions over the next few months. Since DE and Chef are the two big targets for profession improvements this month, that's why we're seeing them first here. SirVimes probably knows more about these than he is allowed to talk about right now.
I do recall those changes on TestCenter a while ago. It was difficult to say what the effect on chef would have been, because the experimental maximums seldom remotely resembled the schematics for food and drink.
Why are the developers are so committed to treating missing stats as 0, however?The reason I can imagine for makingchanges is that, for some schematics (e.g., crafting tools), all stats of a particular resource are ignored. Of course, for clothing, all stats of every resourceused are irrelevant, but hopefully that will change.
If the developers think factoring in these resources is worth making potentially problematic changes to many schematics, it makes sense to make changes to chef and droid engineer. However, aside for the situation I mentioned above, I've never really understood why ignoring missing valuesis intrinsically worse that treating them as 0.
Of course, once these changes have been introduced, it will be hard for other crafters (regardless of how they might feel now) to make a case why their profession should not also be changed to use more subcomponents or some equivalent method to deal with this issue.
Hmmm, just a novice chef here, but I having trouble wrapping my head around the whole "glass-type multiplier" idea. Just because I pour a pint of beer into a gallon jug, I dont get a gallons worth of beer. Ok, maybe I am being too practical but I am having a hard time suspending my disbelief on this one.
Putting that aside and trying to find a use for the glass size, perhaps a certification for using the different sizes in your schematics? Thus forcing (SOE loves to do this) novice chefs and artisans to use them. Or perhaps requiring the smaller ones only in certain schematics, say the artisan ones.
Good lord 1am... no wonder I am not thinking straight!
sciguyCO wrote:
I think the problem they're trying to fix is that a large class of schematics in chef required this tweaking, but didn't get it. Instead of going through every drink and adjusting the Flavor, Nutrition, and Filling calculations, they add this one overall design change to remove the need to tweak.
I didn't see this message before I finished posting, but I don't doubt that making the programmingtasks less complicatedmight be part of the reason for this change. I just don't think this is a very good reason, by itself,for making a major change to an entire line in a skill tree.
However, assuming that there will be separate containers (since the changes are planned to arrive on TestCenter soon),I hope that theykeep the smaller containers useful, perhaps through diminishing returns in the number of servings. For instance, suppose the quantity multipliers were: small glass (x 1), large glass (x 2), cask (x 3), and keg (x 4). If each larger size had diminishing returns (in terms of resource costs), a large glass, cask, and keg might take 2.3, 3.6, and 4.9 times the materials of a small glass, respectively. So (just for this example),if a small glass took 10 materials, the large glass, cask, and keg might take 23, 36, and 49 materials each. If this were the case, it would actually be more expensive, per serving, to produce drinks by the keg than by the glass. The chef (and, ultimately, the customer) would be investing more in the convenience of having a larger stack. Drinking glasses would be in little danger of becoming obsolete; there are always customers who are incredibly cheap no matter how easy credits are to come by. 
I didn't see it in any of the above posts, but is there any word on whether the containers multipliers are going to be experimentable?
Thus, a chef would have to decide whether to offer a big number of charges for a higher cost, or a smaller container for cheaper. The good thing about a linear resource usage based on a multiplier is that a 5x resource usage for the container is not a 5x cost increase for the final product. Because it is just one component of a number, the real increase would be around 2x or so.
Saitek, you're reading far more into my posts than what is there. I'm not moaning at all, in fact I am countering the misconception by non-DEs that you can't make any money as a DE or that you can't have huge sales. If you want to read moaning by DEs, head to that forum. I have a huge droid business and can't keep up with demand simply because the crafting times are so long for factory runs of completed items, just like Chef takes a long time. Once again, I'll repeat that point because it doesn't seem to be sinking in to the participants here: The amount of time it takes to produce a final product in a factory for a Chef is equivalent to any other elite crafting profession. I use droids as an example because that is the one I am intimately familiar with.I could have used other professions (try seeing what it takes to make a Rocket Launcher for complexity and time to produce a single item). I am countering the argument that people are using that it would take too long to produce anything by giving explicit counter-examples of how equivalent complexity items from other crafting sessions take just as long to produce and can sell out in just as short a time. And yes, I am nuts for playing two different characters for two very different crafting professions.
Ooh i didn't realize animations were going to be ready so soon - coolness!
That means there'sgoing to be a LOT of drunk people in my cantina then. (I better order more mops and buckets.)
Hmmm.... so
I'm really torn now .
I can see benefits to both - ppl are defintely going to be playing with the animations, and swigging drink after drink just to see themselves take a swig. So they definitely would opt for "6-packs" in that situation.
But then you get back into the "why buy a small when you can get a medium, why buy a medium when you can get a keg" thing. And the only thing I could picture for a small glass would be for RPing. Someone who'd want to down a glass then belly up to the bar for another one.
So I'm waffling now (sorry bad chef pun) and don't know whether my suggestion would really be useful.
I'd love to hear what others think.Given that animations will be added to the game eventuallydoyou think there wouldbe a market for a single-serving small glass? Or what other function do you think small glasses could fill? (ha ha another pun)
How's this for a trade-off: larger containers increase the filling of the food. So you can have crates of 50 dose stacks, but one bite fills you up, reducing the amount of buffs you can have at any given time.
Also, with the new food effects, the foods are going to be much more situational, so players won't be eating/drinking their way through the same old things all the time (/eat bivoli, /eat ryshcate, /drink angerian, /drink sunburn, repeat ad infinitum). Heck, I might make a point of selling Starshines (reduces time of next incap) in low-number stacks. "Oh, a big tough BH like you won't be dying much, you'll only need a 5-stack".
Nikii_Nightstrider wrote:
I cant walk without bumping into 5 novice chefs anymore...With all the tons and tons of new chefs which will increase even more after patch unless the patch is totally fubarred, perhaps it wont matter that we have to make glasses LOL. Welcome to the new fad profession. Poor chef/DEs are gonna get it coming and going hehe
Couldnt agree more Nikii, we are going to see tons of new chefs trying to make a great profit of this rewamps, battles in boards offering foods and drinks lowering the prices and forcing some old chefs to quit. I really think that the best I can do when these changes goes alive, is to put down the vendor and wait 1 or 2 months only working with customer orders cause I dont want to fight against other chefs underpricing the items to keep my customers with me.
Im excited about the changes, yes, put Im afraid also.... Yesterday a Master chef asked me which stats were important to make Fishaks, cause he just wanted to make money and fishaks are a gold mine......
Akane wrote:
I didn't see it in any of the above posts, but is there any word on whether the containers multipliers are going to be experimentable?
There has been no specific word either way, but the impression I got was that it will not be experimental.
Lestatsp wrote:
Couldnt agree more Nikii, we are going to see tons of new chefs trying to make a great profit of this rewamps, battles in boards offering foods and drinks lowering the prices and forcing some old chefs to quit. I really think that the best I can do when these changes goes alive, is to put down the vendor and wait 1 or 2 months only working with customer orders cause I dont want to fight against other chefs underpricing the items to keep my customers with me.
Im excited about the changes, yes, put Im afraid also.... Yesterday a Master chef asked me which stats were important to make Fishaks, cause he just wanted to make money and fishaks are a gold mine......
Well i wouldnt really worry about all the undercutters and new chefs. Just keep the ole shop where its at, put up your good at whatever price you think is good which more than likely will be much higher than all the other FOTM chefs and wait. All the FOTMers will last a couple of weeks if not a month or so. You'll get to tell a couple people you dont give a **edit** if joe shmoe chef has theirs for 20k cheaper. and Then you can watch as they all crawl back to YOU and pay YOUR prices after all those FOTMers have given up chef or dont have the dedication to keep thier vendors stocked.
Happens with me even now. On my server im expensive. By alot actually. I use the ralloszek guide pricing mostly and there has been alot of undercutting on my server, but i keep a well stocked vendor and they still come and they still pay 200k for that crate of 450 use +560 BOH.
The container is a great idea. It adds to chef components what makes armor and things complicated. People are complaining this will increase factory runs, etc. But if you think about it. Your container, being a simple mineral compound is going to be quick. Real quick. So regardless if it is a food or an equipment factory you should be able to churn out containers like 3 to 1 to the actual drink itself. At least in my eyes, the time is usually relative to the complexity and amount of resources involved. A 8 mineral glass shouldn't take but a couple seconds. Yer looking at roughly 5000 seconds (1 hour 23 minutes 20 seconds) to burn a schematic (1000) of glasses at 5 seconds a glass. From my experience drinks often times take more time to make than a shirt. (again, never gone above Dom IV so feel free to adjust this in your own mind according to literal fact) So if your drink takes 40 seconds to craft yer looking at 40000 seconds (11 hours 6 minutes 40 seconds) to burn a full schematic of a drink. thats an 8 to 1 time ratio, so yer gonna have 8 times as many containers in that same run of drinks. This means 1 factory of containers would cover 8 factories making drinks. In a given time period.
Again, this is all made up and could be complete blasphemy. But in my eyes thats how I see it and I don't see that being much of a hurt. But I'm an honest customer I stick with my suppliers and I wouldn't leave someone for someone else because they're out of stock. I wait patiently for MY tailor and I work well with other players to provide what I can. I am a musician, have been since week two, and continue to, so I know how it is to be a constant harrassment for buffs and such. It can be very irritating, and I am just glad I don't have to have ingredients.
(Though it does take over an hour to make a crate of most instruments, if not longer)Now, having said what I'm thinking I relinquish the forum to the true cators of our delights. All my respect and best wishes,
-Ghrey Ke'lok (Sunrunner)