Chef Archive
Thread: Major change to drinks
Numen wrote:
I don't think it is that precise. I'm pretty sure wood doesn't have any flavor stat and fairly sure on PE. I would sure how wood is considered an organic though. Same thing with Hides or anything in the "Flora Structureal" class.
SirVimes wrote:
Yeah...
And in this game, it means anything that does not have both the flavor and potential energy stats.
Ok, now you are just getting nit picky.
The problem was that food requires Flavor, Potential Energy and Overall Quality stats. Having materials from all three would throw off the equation. The container idea removes a lot of materials that do not have all three, giving us some more flexibility and dimensions to our crafting and allowing the developers to get this stuff out to us faster.
Happy? 
I cant walk without bumping into 5 novice chefs anymore...With all the tons and tons of new chefs which will increase even more after patch unless the patch is totally fubarred, perhaps it wont matter that we have to make glasses LOL. Welcome to the new fad profession. Poor chef/DEs are gonna get it coming and going hehe
BlueMorgoth wrote:
Saitek, I am here because I also have a Chef char. You make points, I want to clarify based on the points you make. I don't put Chef in my sig because I have enough traffic already from all my sales that I don't need even more from the Chef line of business. You asked a question, I made a response. What's so hard to understand about that? And yes, I do see a lot of very common things between Chef and any other crafting profession. I'm trying to point out to you that your complaints about time it takes to sell things is neither unique, nor a particularly worrisome situation. Sure it might be nice to reduce factory times for a particular item, but it is equivalent to the requirements and demands of other elite crafting sessions. Perhaps you don't like having that pointed out to you, but it is a fact of life, so learn to deal with it and look outside the window rather than crying over your own perceived mis-fortunes.
Good your a chef, so be smart enough to make examples that partain to chef not to DE. Frankly I dont care how many components DE's have to make, because I keep it in context to chef. I have bought 1 driod ever in my entire character career and thats about all I will be doing as far as DE is concerned. My question refered to compnents and chefs, not components and DE's. I'm not crying over my mis-fortunes, I am pointing out the fact that we may be getting ourselves into more work than it seems, but all you want to do is moan and groan over your DE woes.
Nikii_Nightstrider wrote:
...Ive beena very naughty girl ....
Yeah baby!! 
I know, Nikii. I haven't been a Master long, but have been in the profession for a few months now as I'm more of a casual player, and don't choose to grind. When I was working my way though Chef, I could never find one to train me, and had to pay for my skills. Now, in the past two or three weeks, I've seen more Chefs than I have seen in the whole time I've played the game.
I think that us Chefs who are truly chefs are still safe, though. We'll have an influx after our revamp (as long as the changes are seen as positive), but when folks realize the work involved, and aren't truly dedicated to the profession, they'll move on, and we'll still be here.
Ok...here's a question. If you all are making so much money, millions a day....why don't you buy them? I mean, the small glass is going to be made by anybody, won't require that many resources probably, so you may be able to buy them fairly cheaply.
If the economy worked this way, and any artisans did this, I'd be buying my carbosyrup, dough, and starshine off them already. How many artisans do you know that aren't: 1) really elite crafters, who just mastered artisan along the way for their components or experimentation points and don't bother with artisan things (I fall into this category), or, 2) have better (selling) things to make, such as powerups and vehicles that don't require the purchase of a food factory to run? The only interdependency in the game is enforced - DEs needing master artisan trinkets, Amorsmiths needing synthcloth. Can't even help a newb out - they need experience to get through artisan, not factory runs. And as Saitek & Sly pointed out, it's just less of a headache to slap up an extra factory and churn out the components, than try to depend on someone else who might drop the skill to hologrind, or burn out or get bored or be out of resources. When you have the kind of volume vet chefs do, you need that run of carbosyrup now... not in two days when Bubba the artisan feels like logging in. Same reason Armorsmiths just pick up novice Tailor.
All of that is irrelevant, though, in the face of the real question: who'd use a sippy cup when they can have kegs? The people buying from us are rich, the money-sinks in the game for them are not high enough to drain them. They'll pay anything for the best and the biggest. They don't want crates of five we cut up so middle-income players can sample, they want crates of 25 (and complain that we can't make them even bigger). No one is going to bother with glasses. Glasses are going to be 'cute', just like fire stew, vegeparsine, and the other schematics that are worthless but look neat sitting around or for sale on a roleplayer cantina's bartender. So all we're really getting out of this is an additional step to make the drinks we already can't keep stocked - in other words, more arbitrary work in a game. As Sly noted, without a specific and good reason for masters to use smaller containers over large ones (quality/quantity is a good tradeoff), it's a stepping stone, and moreover, a waste of dev effort that would be better spent elsewhere.
I'm curious how much exactly the complexity and therefore the factory times are going to be reduced. If they make it akin to oh say anything tossed into an equipment factory... I'd complain less about the addition of extra factory runs.
Haala, here is a question...
We are getting drinking animations. I don't know if they are coming in this patch, but they have the basic animation done, they just need to put it into the game...which is time consuming.
Now, if you have a drink with 1 charge, you can only do the drink once. If you have a drink with five charges, you can take five sips from it.
Still want me to put in your request?
BlueMorgoth wrote:
Saitek and other chefs, I'd like to correct one misconception about droids that you appear to have. We do have renewable products - Bounty Hunter droids. In fact, BHs only buy these by the crate and an average BH will need approximately 15 crates of the seekers and 7 crates of Arakyds to complete the investigation tree (assuming no GCW base terminal slicing or Jedi killing). Now I am located on the biggest of all the servers (Bria) and have been a long established DE so it may skew my perceptions somewhat compared to Sly and other DEs. To give you a rough idea to compare against your own chef experiences:
I have a daily income that is in the 300-500K range from droid sales alone. That does not include other sales that I make from the Master Artisan and Merchant professions (eg powerups, meds, vehicles etc). I sell on average 50 crates a day of BH droids alone (a crate contains 5 droids). Each droid takes 3 or 4 subcomponents (EMMs and GPs from MA). To make a run of 1000 (ie 200 crates) of BH arakyd droids I need to make 4 separate factory runs of 1000 subcomponents before making the final droid. Thus, a run of a single set of droids that will last me less than a week of sales, takes 8 days of factory time. Since I have 4 factories already and two full time apprentices with their own factories, I can run a lot of that in parallel, but it should give you an idea of the shear volume of stuff that needs to go into making just a single DE product, not including the rest of the parts and subcomponents that are generally made in factories too. (eg a probot needs a chassis, which requires as one component microsensor suite, which requires a GP module, control unit and power conditioner subcomponents etc etc).
ok, so 8 days for 1000 BH droids....and from what you've said they're big sellers...perhaps biggest for DE's atm.
a full run of BoH (assuming 6 alludiums, 2 sets of 3 identical alludiums) would take about 3 days (assuming 2 factories for simultaeneous factory runs), then you can take those components, and with hopefully few crit failures make 12-13 full crates with maybe a few in another crate. at 25 per crate...thats 325 or so BoH's in about 5 days...lets say...2 full runs of BoH...4 factories required...5 days...so thats 26 crates, or 650 BoH's...close to BH droids. a high traffic shop could sell those in less than a day....followed shortly by requests for more, or complaints about where it all went.
in 8 days you might be able to get close to 1000...but not quite there...well maybe but I don't want to calculate exact times...but that would mean 6 subcomponent runs, and 3 final assembly runs...total of 9...versus 5
saitek, and slythelove have good points about being able to reliably get good quality subcomponents from someone else...
most of the people who can handle that level of production...are eiher chefs themselves, or already engaged in weaponsmithing, armorsmithing, or some other elite crafting profession. that and if the only thing containers affect are charges...then kegs will essentially be the only thing a master chef would really want to use.
One thing that perplexes me about the drink changes is why they feel that adding a subcomponent is necessary to deal with the problem of missing stats. Missing stats occur in other professions too, but aren't necessarily dealt with through subcomponents.
The crafting FAQ states that missing stats are treated as 0 in the maximum experimental percentage calculation. However,testing reported in the weaponsmith forum a while back(and corroborating posts in other profession forums)stated that it never actually worked that way; Missing values were ignored, not treated as 0s. There are some exceptions to this rule, but for most professions (like weaponsmith and armorsmith), it seems that missing values were never treated as 0s.
Is all crafting going to be changed so that missing stats are treated as 0s for all professions? Or, is this only going to apply to food and drink? I sort of like the idea of kegs, but at the same time I don't understand why chef experimental maximums would need to work differently than those of all other crafting professions.
I'll bet missing stats are treated as zero unless the schematic calculation was tweaked to ignore it in the code. A crafting tool's effectiveness is based 100% on conductivity, but the schematic requires chemical, which is never conductive. However, by using a 1000 Conductivity copper, the toolcan be experimented up to 100%, so the missing conductivity is definitely ignored. Schematics that don't get the tweak may be things like an item depending on Potential Energy and requires chemical. Some chemicals (the fuels) have PE, others don't. This makes some sub-classes more effective, rewarding intelligent crafters. I'm pretty sure I remember seeing some Doctor tests where using Liquid petrochem improved one of the stim components, where the schematic only required generic Chemical.
I think the problem they're trying to fix is that a large class of schematics in chef required this tweaking, but didn't get it. Instead of going through every drink and adjusting the Flavor, Nutrition, and Filling calculations, they add this one overall design change to remove the need to tweak.