CUEmu - Thread Posts

Killtacular

Thu Feb 19, 2004 1:58 am

"BE's have no end user market for chef tissues. We make them only for chefs and there is an easily calculatable benefit to chefs. They are highly experimented component where both the quality of materials and the skill of the BE is highly relavant."

No one doubts this. Please, price your BE comps and let the free market aspect of the game take over.

If everyone would just DO THAT, none of this would be an issue.

But noooooo, BEs see how much Chef food "can go for" and of course just HAVE to get their cut.

This is what you guys are missing....why the h3ll are you worried what Chef food sells for? You are right, you dont have and end user market for Chef tissues.....SO WHYARE YOU SO WORRIED ABOUT OUR END CUSTOMERS!

And Spotty, I don't know why you would ever want to pick up Chef. It would seem obvious that, judging by the response you get on these boards, you would fit in much better on the TKA boards. Oh wait, my bad, I forgot the last patch revamped Chef....you are in the right place (at least until the next patch).

/pukes

Cyene

jason67

Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:06 am

#93

Gotik-CH wrote:

Well said. Thats exactly it. 100k is more than enough for the schematic makers earned skills for 2 minutes.

That wasn't exactly the point he was trying to get across. He was saying he NEVER would sell his schematics for 100k and that it isn't enough. Chef schematics for Brandy can Net the seller millions in credits. If he sells this schematic for only 100k then(lets just assume we are talking about 2 million in profit) he basically just gave away 1.9million dollars in credits. This doesn't seem to be a very smart business move.

Cyene wrote:

What you are asking is absurd and impossible, both in this game and in the real world. You CANNOT expect to price your BE comps based on what the "community" seems to be charging for the end product. As intelligent as your posts are, I can't believe you don't see this.

LOL, duh of course things are priced this way. How do you think they determine the price of anything in this world real or computer generated it is based on what it can be used in and how it performs. Apparently you never caught that small business concept. A top end video card doesn't cost $400 just because it's a video card. It cost's $400 because it can be used in your computer and because it can dramtically improve the performance of your computer. The BE components aren't expensive just because they are BE components, they are expensive because they can be used in your Brandy and they can double the effectiveness of it.

And you will likely say well they are used in other things as well. Ok lets take that approach on my real life example of the video card. You can put that $400 dollar video card in a 486 computer if you like. That however would be a waste of a really good video card that was designed to run in the newest Pentium 4's. Yes it has a slot for it but that doesn't mean that it should necesarily be used for it there may be a more appropriate item for it.

Cyene wrote:

What CAN be answered, and what is the real subject of this hijacked post is.... why are BEs afraid to set a price for their goods? Why do you need to know what I'm selling for to determine what your wares are worth?

Ok two things on this. First BE's have set prices and you simply didn't like them. Tough dont' buy them then. Second This BE didn't ask what you were selling it for, he doesn't care about the $$ Cost of your product he wanted to make a trade and wanted to find out what you guys would consider and equitable trade BE tissues for Brandy for both parties. Still trying to figure out how you missed that part 0_o.

Cyene wrote:

I categorically disagree with your assumption that they need to be equitable in any sense. That is not how free trade works.

But this "I know how much you are going to sell this for and I want my cut" cr@p is ridiculous.

Ok you dumb ass this is the way it works. EVERYONE gets a cut out of the final product. That is Exactly how free trade works. And NO ONE would trade if it wasn't equitable. One would wonder how stupid one person could actually get, I guess we know now.

Cyene wrote:

I have siad several times that I havea BE friend who is not interested in Chef food and prices my comps based on the quality of resources used (which ironically is how I price my food).

That's great apparently you are the one that doesn't know how the free market economy works. It's called Supply and Demand the exact same principle that allows Most(this means not all for those that need it spelled out, Cyene) Chefs to charge what they do at the moment. And what company do you know that sells their products to the lowest bidder. I can't think of any. Any BE is going to sell their Enhancements to whoever is willing to pay the most for them especially since they are a somewhat limited item due to their high meat costs. If you choose to sell your products based purely on your resource costs(all harvestable using harvestors with the exception of the BE/Tailor enhancements) instead of current market value then that is great and I'm sure you are making several people happy. But that is not the way economics and business work, they base items on market value not cost to manufacture. Do you realize that it cost Ford about $5,000 to produce their top end SUV's and yet they sell them for $40,000+. Sounds to me like they price based on Market Value and not on actual Material Cost.

Next time try not to make comparisons of a concept you apparently seem to have no grasp of. Sure it's nice of you to price your items based on your actual material cost's vs market value but don't expect everyone to price theirs on the same concepts as they are not the same concepts that rule the real world.

And all this coming from someone who is not a BE.

HostageH

Valcyn

Master Doc/Master Rifleman

HostageH
Master Lightsaber /3003Enhancer /4100Healer /0044Defender
/0044Force Reflexes /Master Force Combat

Arisa
MasterWeaponsmith(125exp/130assembly/25repair/22weapons repair) /MasterArtisan(14pt) /MasterShipwright /4400Force Crafting
Vendor Location 2355, -3922 just outside Coronet

apulieus

Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:10 am

#94

Lol gotik.

I shake my head in disbelief that you really believe your skills to make schematics are worth a pittance, that it's all about resources and you couldn't care less about destroying the market by dumping schematics on it.

Emalie

Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:44 am

#95

LovePudding2 wrote:

Master Bio-Engineer / Novice Chef

As a MBE, I make more money dealing with Tailors. One clothing tissue, which is less meat resources than some medium food additives, costs tailors 3K. One create of (some tissue) cost 75K per crate. Most chefs are not willing to pay that much for a crate for medium additives. So... I simply sell to the highest bidder.

It's people like you who make this class a disgrace. While there are some chefs that are gouging the market, there are some of us who would like to make BE food remain at a reasonable cost to be able to sell it to others. At 75K for a crate of your BE, which is over a 60K profit, you are forcing chefs to increase the cost of their foods. Then you come here and try to place blame on chefs. LOL

Here is the other problem with you BE's raising the prices....you make it so that it's not worth creating ANY other foods than Brandy and Canap as BE. I sell almost all the other new foods for 50 - 100 credits per a dose. How am I to offer those cheap still if I am being charged 50K - 75K for BE enhancements?

Message Edited by Emalie on 02-19-2004 08:31 AM

*~*Halle's Bar and Grill (3218, -3174) Mazius, Talus outside Dearic*~*
Halle, Master Chef, *~*MazX*~*
Emalie, Master Combat Medic, *~*MazX*~*
Makayla, Novice TKA, *~*MazX*~*
Radiant Server

jason67

Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:56 am

#96

I think Chef's in general are way overcomplicating this. Perhaps because this is their first experience with cross profession dependance.

If it costs you more to produce then charge more for it. If the consumer doesn't like the high prices explain to them that it is the high costs of BE components that increase the end cost and if they would like to supply the BE components that you could decrease the cost(or perhaps for meat as that can be traded to BE's for components as well). It's truely as simple as that. Everyone understands when production costs go up that end costs go up as well. If you give your consumers the ability to help control this many of them will either bring you the tissues or meat or will simply pay your asking price.

Alternately if you supply your BE's with the meats needed they will drastically reduce costs of the tissues for you as that is their truely limiting factor on the tissues.

HostageH
Master Lightsaber /3003Enhancer /4100Healer /0044Defender
/0044Force Reflexes /Master Force Combat

Arisa
MasterWeaponsmith(125exp/130assembly/25repair/22weapons repair) /MasterArtisan(14pt) /MasterShipwright /4400Force Crafting
Vendor Location 2355, -3922 just outside Coronet

jason67

Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:59 am

#97

Oh one more thing....

I also think for most Chefs this isn't truely the issue and that it is simply a good excuse to charge 300k+ for a crate of 25 BE enhanced Brandy(I did say MOST not ALL). This being the case I still do not begrudge the Chef his right to make a good profit, just don't expect the BE to not want to make a good profit as well since his component is required for these high end units.

HostageH
Master Lightsaber /3003Enhancer /4100Healer /0044Defender
/0044Force Reflexes /Master Force Combat

Arisa
MasterWeaponsmith(125exp/130assembly/25repair/22weapons repair) /MasterArtisan(14pt) /MasterShipwright /4400Force Crafting
Vendor Location 2355, -3922 just outside Coronet

Emalie

Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:11 am

#98

"One person suggested that they would trade 1 crate of enhanced Brandy for 4 crates of medium BE additives. That will only require me to put together 4000+ of the same kind of good OQ+PE+FL meat (and 12K+ other organics, which is nowhere near as difficult). Do you have any idea how much time that takes? Sure, if Rancors happen to be dropping good meat, that is a different matter. But if not, then you of all people know how hard it is to get massive amounts of meat together."

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well lets see. Last night I hit up Endor on my TKA and scrounged together more than 8K of uber meats in less than 3 hours. That's not long to me. Plus having 3 guildmates with me and give me meats, that's 32K meat.

*~*Halle's Bar and Grill (3218, -3174) Mazius, Talus outside Dearic*~*
Halle, Master Chef, *~*MazX*~*
Emalie, Master Combat Medic, *~*MazX*~*
Makayla, Novice TKA, *~*MazX*~*
Radiant Server

Ophistes

Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:28 am

#99

jason67 wrote:

Oh one more thing....

I also think for most Chefs this isn't truely the issue and that it is simply a good excuse to charge 300k+ for a crate of 25 BE enhanced Brandy(I did say MOST not ALL). This being the case I still do not begrudge the Chef his right to make a good profit, just don't expect the BE to not want to make a good profit as well since his component is required for these high end units.

The problem is that at these rates I will not be able to use BE additives in any food but Brandy. We could make a wide variety of BE enhanced food and drinks but I simply can't see that now :/

Example: Veghash, stack of 5 I think. Non-BE enhanced it gives a +16 bonus to creature harvesting. BE enhanced it would be +30 or more. It lasts for about 10-15 minutes only - If I have to pay 75k for a crate of BE additives the additional harvest doesn't cover the price.

All people seem to see is 'BRANDY!' - we have a new Fishak. Yay.

Ophistes Ceimined= Chef and Musician =
= The singing frog =
"I suppose you're entitled to your own delusions." --Threepio

jason67

Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:59 am

#100

Yes you are right. and that is probably where the light additives will fit in. Medium would be better but because of the demand for them for the brandy just probably wont' be feasable for anything else unless it is worth the premium price to a consumer for a custom order.

HostageH
Master Lightsaber /3003Enhancer /4100Healer /0044Defender
/0044Force Reflexes /Master Force Combat

Arisa
MasterWeaponsmith(125exp/130assembly/25repair/22weapons repair) /MasterArtisan(14pt) /MasterShipwright /4400Force Crafting
Vendor Location 2355, -3922 just outside Coronet

Emalie

Thu Feb 19, 2004 9:59 am

#101

"When you see the kind of results you can get from a food item enhanced with a 110 (not even max) heavy nutrition additive, you understand why non-additive enhanced foods will gather dust once people learn the difference."

Simply not true. Not even close. If I am selling Veghash at 100 credits per dose, I don't see someone paying an additional 4K for a stack of 6. I sell that 6 stack at600 credits. To charge 2600 for the stack of 6 seems like a rip off to me. If someone wants BE food other than the big selling stat foods, they need to special order and then be educated about why the cost is so high...IE: The BE sells me his crate for 50K so you have to now pay 4K for your stack of 6.

Message Edited by Emalie on 02-19-2004 09:03 AM

*~*Halle's Bar and Grill (3218, -3174) Mazius, Talus outside Dearic*~*
Halle, Master Chef, *~*MazX*~*
Emalie, Master Combat Medic, *~*MazX*~*
Makayla, Novice TKA, *~*MazX*~*
Radiant Server

Killtacular

Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:28 am

#102

Jason,

Take it easy there Tex...must have hit pretty close to the mark to get a flame-rant like that.

I basically said what I needed to, in spite of your desire to respond to every line of my post as if I were being cross examined in a courtroom.

Lay off the caffeine and crank bro.

Cyene

jason67

Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:13 am

#103

sry I just get really worked up when people start flaming and dont' make any sense while doing it. I imagine you were simply worked up as well and just weren't really thinking about what you were saying at the time. I know this is a hot topic for many and I just fail to see the real complication. It seems to me that it is being made harder than it really is(likechefs need to make it any harder). If BE's and Chefs will just work together and come to a general understanding of what to expect from one another this mad rush would drop off much faster.

I think there are instances where both parties are being unreasonable but I also see cases(like this one) where the BE(in this case) is trying to be reasonable and trying to figure out what would be a reasonable rate of exchange, for his products vs chef products, and he gets flamed for his post. That is why I got worked up. Someone was simply trying to work around all the BS and just work an equitable trade straight across so $$$ amounts never get involved and he can't even get a little cooperation from the Chefs(once again not all chefs fit into this particular rant).

Don't mean to get worked up I'm simply an outsider with inside knowledge trying to keep up with all the changes and every time I start reading the boards even I end up getting all worked up, and realistically I am nothing to you guys but a consumer.

HostageH
Master Lightsaber /3003Enhancer /4100Healer /0044Defender
/0044Force Reflexes /Master Force Combat

Arisa
MasterWeaponsmith(125exp/130assembly/25repair/22weapons repair) /MasterArtisan(14pt) /MasterShipwright /4400Force Crafting
Vendor Location 2355, -3922 just outside Coronet

Templar1865

Thu Feb 19, 2004 12:32 pm

#104

"Simply not true. Not even close. If I am selling Veghash at 100 credits per dose, I don't see someone paying an additional 4K for a stack of 6."

Really? I think you might be prejudging the situation before you try it out. Take a moment to really consider your market. You're not selling Intellingent Nanonutrient-enhanced food to a new character. Your market is the character who is dropping hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of credits for holocrons, krayt-enhanced weapons, and advanced composite armor.

The cost progression for high-powered items isn't linear. Think of it in these terms: the cost of a vehicle with a top speed of 100 mph is affordable (most current vehicles can attain these speeds, let's say $20,000). Now, what do you think it costs for a vehicle that goes 200 mph? $40,000? No. $80,000? Higher. Doubling the speed attirbute on a vehicle raises the cost by several orders of magnitude. I can buy a PC with a 2.5 GHz processor for $500.A 5.0 GHz processor doesn't even exist in the most expensive production models.

There will always be a market for premium products, especially in such a cash-rich economy as SWG has right now. If you're not comfortable working with the premium market, simply continue with your 100 per dose formula and target the budget market segment. There are characters who can't afford filet mignon, so a burger is justfine for them. It's possible to make a really tasty burger--it's possible to make money at it, too.

Also, be ready for some frustration in terms ofyour customers only wanting the same thing over and over again. I know that as a professional, that makes for a boring life, but the financial reality is what it is. Although I can make billions of possible pets, the only onesthat sellhave armor and high kinetic resists. I work with tailors who won't buy my tissues unless they're +13 or higher (to get the max +25 bonus on 2-tissue clothing items). That's totally cool by me. +12 tissues don't sell, but +13 tissues do. I may want to make something else, but I do so knowing that it is going to sit on my vendor for a while. This is where my "dust on the shelves" point comes in. If you make something that the market doesn't want, don't plan on selling in quickly.

My advice is this--shop around. If you /tell a BE and say, "I'm looking for an additive supplier. So far my best price is 3,000cr per heavy additive. Can you give me a better price than that?" they will either say, "No, that's what I charge as well," or they'll say, "I can supply you with those additives for a lower cost." If you don't have any other issues working (they're a rebel and you're imperial, some RP or guild allegiances), go with the lower price.

Chef Archive

Thread: Would this chef/BE arrangement be fair?