Chef Archive
Thread: General Opinions, Complaints and Suggestions.
fatgit
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:04 pm
#79
I also agree that we are heading in the right direction.
The devs will never allow us to stat buff at the same level as doctors, there are too many doctors that would play hell, and not enough chef's to compete with the noise.
I dont mind skill buffs (hey, wheres the +20 to food experimentation/3 months buff we asked for!) as long as they are worthwhile - something that triggers for 2 seconds but fills you for an hour will never be used by anyone.
The devs will never allow us to stat buff at the same level as doctors, there are too many doctors that would play hell, and not enough chef's to compete with the noise.
I dont mind skill buffs (hey, wheres the +20 to food experimentation/3 months buff we asked for!) as long as they are worthwhile - something that triggers for 2 seconds but fills you for an hour will never be used by anyone.
DashZero
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:21 pm
#80
Sorry my mommy taught me not to talk to trolls.
I sincerely hope that one day I can gain the level of intelligence you have. Im certain that I might get by if I slip a fewnumbers in my words and act cool by calling everyone stupid, moron, sheep and buttkissers. That would definitely bring me to a new level of intelligence. Oh yea, then I forgot, then I have to brag about it! Yay the formula for a genius. For the last month all youve talked about is how you arent a sheep and you are so smart and know so much. The only thing I see is that you think you know alot, you dont know english, you are lewt, you are incapable of getting along in a society even if people are on your side because of your incessant need to put yourself on a pedastal by insulting others.
While I hate to bring this up to someone of your supreme intelligence, derogatory does not mean cussed. I did not say you cussed at anyone, I said you were derogatory. For the last month thats all you have been.
Yea big whoop, you apologized, then went right back to insulting people. Im sure within the next 2 days we'll have seen you tell another 4 people at least that they are morons or sheep or stupid. I will give you credit for one thing.
You do excel at what you do. You have a talent for being rude.
Happymob
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:29 pm
#81
drwoobie wrote:
Gripe: The benefit of using bigger containers should be in line with the cost. Not a high cost with little benefit.
Agreed, butfirst we mustdetermine the actual cost (fairly easy since you know the schematics) and then look at the potential benefit. The benefit is tougher to measure at the moment becuase no one has figured out extactly how the charge increase happens with larger containers (though we have basic numbers on small glass to large glass).
I see casks as something that are not always cost efficient for every food. But if a particular food is particularly expensive to make (lots of meat or it uses expensive BE components), then perhaps 1500 credits for a few extra charges becomes a nice way to leverage your limited supplies of quality meat and BE components. There are certainly times when using 90 extra grinding quality gemstone (large glass vs small glass) is worth having for the 2 extra charges. Just not in spiced tea.
As a masterartisan-onlyfood crafter, I don't expect that the casks will ever be cost efficient for me to use. As a combat consumer of chef drinks, I sincerely hope that they are cost-effective for most chef drinks. They sure need to be in at least some situations or there is no reason to have them in the game.
Oddsie
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:30 pm
#82
Akane wrote:
My previous post didn't appear. I don't think the changes were implemented very well, but aside for the general problems there are several specific things that bother me:
1. COMPONENTS: Components no longer have experimental qualities. I don't particularly like this, as part of the challenge of being a chef is finding great materials for your components (such as the Aludium Pu36s).
Totally agree!!!
2. PRE-PATCH FOODS: Pre-patch foods apply correctly and stack correctly, although they don't appear in the monitor window. However, the filling data was not adjusted to account for the longer stomach decay time. For instance, pre-patch Aitha took 18% of you stomach before (about 4 minutes) and takes 18% now (about 11 minutes). I can already imagine the reactions of customers who have bought crates of Breath of Heaven. Not only do they need to take all the drinks out of the crate before the patch, but now each serving will take over 40 minutes to clear out of their stomachs, rather than 15.
OMG I just assumed that they would work EXACTLY as before... if this istrue I am VERY upset...I've been working my butt off to stock the old stuff before it goes away to eaase the transition...
3. EXPERIMENTATION: After experimenting with Aitha for a while, I can't see that the experimental formulas are working on Test Center any better than they are working on live. Has any one actually been able to get these formulas to work for food or drink?
4. ALCOHOL: When chefs wanted lower factory times, I doubt they wanted the three best alcohols removed altogether. I thought the different alcohols were the best part of the Mixology line, and willl be sorry to see them go.
Agree!
5. BUFF TIMER: I actually like this little timer. However, clicking "show" in the option menu hides the timer, while clicking "hide" shows the menu.
Is there any time frame for when this will appear on the live servers? Even a vague idea (i.e., one month, two weeks, 3 months) would be helpful, as I don't want to be stuck with too much Breath of Heaven that fills you up for most of an hour.This is BY FAR the most important to me! PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! some timeline would be imensely helpful!
thanks for reading 
domynion
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:33 pm
#83
Sorry vimes, guess I got a little hot tempered about the changes that are being forced on us... I did use some "biblical references," nothing I've not seen coming out of others' mouths (even vimes himself!) -- so I figured I was in the "green" there, guess not..
I'm also sorry bout the namecalling, although I didn't mean it seriously, I guess people took it that way (and from re-reading my posts, I can see how it can be taken)...
I was wrong -- I've said I'm sorry, and I'll say it again - I'm sorry.
Even though people can't give up on trying to egg me on into arguing it seems, even after apologizing.. so I'll just pop in here from time to time with my thoughts on things and get flamed.. I'm okay with that.
SirVimes
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:34 pm
#84
"3. EXPERIMENTATION: After experimenting with Aitha for a while, I can't see that the experimental formulas are working on Test Center any better than they are working on live. Has any one actually been able to get these formulas to work for food or drink?"
I have been. In the past the highest success a chef could get was 50%. I am now getting them in the 60% and 70% on a regular basis...and that is with using average ingredients.
Ezran
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:44 pm
#85
PSKstang wrote:
3) Im not too happy with adding DR and shock to the experimentation resource stats. Rarely do good stats occur on all 4 floral stats. Unless this is intended for gas and the like then I have no problem with it.
The schematics that list shock have bone or hide, so the stat is always there.
Unfortunatelt DR is a diferent story. Generally all 4 experimentation trees list 2 of the 4 flora stats. Since there will likely never be flora with 800+ to all stats, you have to pick and choose what you want to increase.
Add flavour additive to ingredients with bad flavour to even it out.
Or forget about flavour, and get stats for nutrition or filling only.
It's the trade-off for using generic ingredients.
LeilaniKirlia
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:45 pm
#86
I <3 the Chef forums even without trolls. And I have a Troll collection the likes of which the world has never known.
In order of when I wrote them, from earliest to latest:
1. No Wedding Cake or Double-dip Outer Rim Rumdrop or Sunburn or.... : Marriages and Pirates seem to be the most common things I see on Eclipse, and I would like to be able to continue serving both. The loss of several drinks whose descriptions claimed them to be "the most powerful drink in the galaxy" (and I always have laughed that eight drinks could be THE most powerful 
) is slightly upsetting. Is there a reason why these schematics could not have been left in (besides DB issues) as RP tools? Especially wedding cake.
) is slightly upsetting. Is there a reason why these schematics could not have been left in (besides DB issues) as RP tools? Especially wedding cake.2. Resource requirements on Containers: Keep these in line with the benefit of using a barrel (which should in all technicality provide at least 30 glasses, correct?) P.S. Everyone, remember, if you DO decide to make barrels, you technically don't have to make casks then, so you would only deal with MA's and not Tailors. I am glad that barrels don't require trim and MA components after careful thought.
3. No experimentation on subcomponents: I can understand it for barrels (a barrel is a barrel afterall) but making alcohol from the wheat I scraped off of the bottom of my harvestor should not make the same quality booze as the best thing to ever happen to the server (besides Astral Fantasia) (Greatest Band Ever). Also, I like telling my friends that I put radioactives into their drinks, and with aludium gone, I can't do that anymore.
4. We need to dump faster: I know SirVimes said we couldn't call it dumping, but it makes me smile more than anything else in this revamp so far, so I think the dump timer should be looked at for sure. Logout and death are two facets of this to Pass Over (L'Chaim) as well.
4. Colors for Chef outfits: This was suggested on the Tailor forums, and I agree wholeheartedly. For Iron Chef battles or whatever we do decide to have as good excuses for Chefs to meet each other, I'd like to be able to have a little variety. No biggie, just a little complaint.
I writes what I feels, and I tells you no lies.
Leilani Kir'lia
Bookie, M.C., Treasurer, and Resident Master Chef
Astral Fantasia
DashZero
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:54 pm
#87
heres my list of whats bothering me at this point...jurys still out on some things as we havent heard it all yet i dont think.
1. Stomach fill rate taking one hour to empty but no buffs lasting that long.
2. It appears to me so far that we are losing quite a lot of stat buff ability.
3. Yes, we got shorter to complexity to decrease factory time. But factory time didnt decrease, Im not sure on times on all the components we now have to make but Id be willing to bet our factory time to make high end drinks has just increased drastically.
4. The current crates of food popping out only 1 serving stacks. I have customers hoarding millions of credits of food in case the patch went bad. Now that 500 serving case of breath of heaven is reduced to 25 servings?? They didnt buy 25 servings, they bought 500 servings. They should have what they bought. What are we supposed to do in the time between now and patch? We cant close shopfor lack of storage, do we continue to sell crates to people but now have to warn every customer that on some unknown day their food will be practically worthless.
5. Removal of the alcohol diversity. It makes perfect since that you make better drinks with better alcohol. This allowed us to tailor what we made for our customers byappealing to both low budget and high budget customers.
6. Removal of experimentation on components. I took great pride in making some of the best food on my server. Components played a very large role in this ability. By removing this ability and the effects of it, you remove a lot of the ability of the chef to make himself stand out by excelling at what he does.
7. Containers / resource use / component use. I am not pleased about trying to beg someone to sell me stuff. As I mentioned elsewhere, I cant even find a stable supplier of spice which has got to be one of the easiest things around to make. The only person that was willing wanted to charge me 3k more per crate than their normal vendorprice (Id pay 120k extra per factory run just so I could counton it being there). I have a large brisk business. I need to know that I can get what I need when I need it. My business depends on it.I dont dislike interdepence...but it should only go so far. We shouldnt have to beg and beg and beg some more every single time we want to make a good product and hope that that person comes through with our order sometime in the next 2 weeks. Ive had several instances where my orders with people didnt arrive for 3 weeks or they just decided not to make it and didnt bother to tell me. Maybe I just have bad luck here. But my real beef about this part is after going through all that headache, Ill get much less product for my resource? A novice chef container produces a more efficient product than a master chef container? Does that mean chefs get progressively dumber? hehe seriously, once you become a master, you should *more* efficient not less. If you have to go through all that trouble of getting full factory runs from multiple people to make one factory run yourself, it should be a darn good product, not a waste of resources.
8. While I realize it would be unbalancing to have the skill mods be very large, most of our foods appear to be skill mods of one type or another. With the amount of the mod being so small, it doesnt seem that there would be much room to make a whole lot better product than someone else. But this is a thought on my part, I dont have information to back up that assumption.
In summary, overall Im extremely disappointed with what Ive seen. It seems we now will be making much less desirable food, which can be used less oftenand much more comparable to each other in what we can produce. It seems there will be little roomto develop a reputation as a good chef other than by service, stocked vendor and price. In addition to things looking less attractive, it will now entail more headaches to get things of lesser quality than we make now made.
fatgit
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:57 pm
#88
But if a particular food is particularly expensive to make (lots of meat or it uses expensive BE components), then perhaps 1500 credits for a few extra charges becomes a nice way to leverage your limited supplies of quality meat and BE components.
I hadn't actually looked at it that way. In a situation like that, it would definitely be more cost effective.
Still not happy about it, or about the fact that a run of 1000 barrels is going to use 300,000 gemstones alone O_O
SaarK5
Fri Jan 23, 2004 3:59 pm
#89
I was only on TC for about an hour before it went down again for an update, but here's my first impressions :
A large glass didn't seem to make any difference than a small for some of the recipes. I'm guessing this is due to the type of buff...another thing we need to document for our uber chart.
I crit failed on experimenting a lot more often than I expected for a Master Chef. In fact it happens a lot more than before the patch, and I'm using the same materials.
Some of the experimenting didn't seem to affect the values at all, even after 5 boxes (specifically flavor on Ormachek I believe, but it's not in front of me).
I noticed that it seems more thought needs to go into crafting, and there's a lot of room for variables so that two different chefs can make vastly different effect ranges from the same recipe. I think I like that.
I also still have a stockpile of pre-patch foods that weren't in crates. I'm curious to see what the going price for these will be after the new foods settle in.
- Malikor, Master Chef - TestCenter
A large glass didn't seem to make any difference than a small for some of the recipes. I'm guessing this is due to the type of buff...another thing we need to document for our uber chart.
I crit failed on experimenting a lot more often than I expected for a Master Chef. In fact it happens a lot more than before the patch, and I'm using the same materials.
Some of the experimenting didn't seem to affect the values at all, even after 5 boxes (specifically flavor on Ormachek I believe, but it's not in front of me).
I noticed that it seems more thought needs to go into crafting, and there's a lot of room for variables so that two different chefs can make vastly different effect ranges from the same recipe. I think I like that.
I also still have a stockpile of pre-patch foods that weren't in crates. I'm curious to see what the going price for these will be after the new foods settle in.
- Malikor, Master Chef - TestCenter
Oddsie
Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:08 pm
#90
PSKstang wrote:
Complaints:
1) Only 1 alcohol. I liked having choices for alcohols.
Don't like it but can live with it...
2) 1 hour digestion period. I think it may hurt sales and the view people have on food. It needs to be lowered or taken out for alot of the foods that have a duration already.
Same here... Don't like it, but if the math works out in the long run its OK I guess. Bottom line tho' ... longer buffs and longer stomach filling = less sales.
3) Im not too happy with adding DR and shock to the experimentation resource stats. Rarely do good stats occur on all 4floral stats. Unless this is intended for gas and the like then I have no problem with it.
This is HORRIBLE if it applies to all organics. Look atother crafters... they need one or two stats in virtually everything they make (Meds = PE/OQ, Weap= Con/OQ or SR/OQ, Arch UT, Armor OQ/SR OQ/Mal <wow 3!>
4) I dont have a problem with the casks/barrels but since alot of people have shown concerned, how about making it either artisan only sub-components for both or tailor only sub-components. Sort of meeting in the middle.
I'm OK with interdependency... its a PITA, but forcing interaction is part of the modus operendi of this game so I'll roll with it... but... if I understand corretly I'm going to need 300,000u high quality non-ferrous to run a full 1000 schematic run of drinks in kegs?!? Well lets see... If I use 75% of my harvs to mine copper and aluminum and the other 25% to mine organics.... well I'll still be short on metal but it won't be too bad
Anyway.. that doesn't sound like the way it should be for a chef...
Oddsie
Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:09 pm
#91
domynion wrote:
Here's my constructive criticism:
Have the Devs post all the new food schematics, with maximums and minimums to the food effects, and also what class makes what component.
THAT IS THE ONLY WAY to compare 1 complete system of Chef to a wholly NEW complete system of Chef..
Until then, I can only comment on how I think the new system works, and from what I've seen, we get some interesting (but who knows how useful) skill buffs, some foods are gone, some look a lot worse than what they may be, and many look like they are somewhat nerfed...
This "let's leak out a little at a time" method is only fuelling complaints because we aren't seeing the whole picture.. I'm QUITE frustrated that, from what I've seen, chefs are going to be a whole lot more time consuming and boring...
If they are going to Transform us into their new idea of what chef should be, at least give us the WHOLE DESIGN up front so we can evaluate it, and come up with reasons why it SHOULD or SHOULD NOT go live before it comes crashing down on us like a rockslide..
Yeah I know I've been a pain in your collective necks today...
For what its worth, I humblyapologize
OMG!!! I should read before I post. this is exactly how I feel!
Well said (and thanks for the apology)