Chef Archive
Thread: General Opinions, Complaints and Suggestions.
Oddsie
Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:23 pm
#92
And to complete the trifecta...
4. The current crates of food popping out only 1 serving stacks. I have customers hoarding millions of credits of food in case the patch went bad. Now that 500 serving case of breath of heaven is reduced to 25 servings?? They didnt buy 25 servings, they bought 500 servings. They should have what they bought. What are we supposed to do in the time between now and patch? We cant close shopfor lack of storage, do we continue to sell crates to people but now have to warn every customer that on some unknown day their food will be practically worthless.
We HAVE to assume this is a bug and will be fixed! Right?.... Please tell me we can assume this!
6. Removal of experimentation on components. I took great pride in making some of the best food on my server. Components played a very large role in this ability. By removing this ability and the effects of it, you remove a lot of the ability of the chef to make himself stand out by excelling at what he does.
Absolutely. I feel the same way. And I am confident I can speak for Cameralli as well on this specific issue.
In summary, overall Im extremely disappointed with what Ive seen. It seems we now will be making much less desirable food, (Jury is still out forme)which can be used less often(Clearly) and much more comparable to each other in what we can produce. It seems there will be little roomto develop a reputation as a good chef other than by service, stocked vendor and price. In addition to things looking less attractive, it will now entail more headaches to get things of lesser quality than we make now made.
Bennyboy4308
Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:25 pm
#93
If old food doesn't work.... Well that was alot of money wasted on 10 crates of fishak, 10 of ryscate, 5 of BoH, 5 Glucose (Most of it made by Odds up there ^)
Vishna
Fri Jan 23, 2004 4:39 pm
#94
300k of gemstone for a run of barrels? Good lord!
Even crappy grind minerals go for 4-5 cpu on my server.
YoSpeck
Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:22 pm
#95
Im new to chef and the game and the one thing I have a problem with is this:
The game does not allow you to drop items.
That is crap. I think food should be a dropable item, if I was making one change then this would be it. Cant make a buffet for anyones wedding, you need a vendor or some chef going round handing stuff out. Sorry, I may be a commoner, but in real life you get a nice sandwhich spread and thats it, no tooti-fruiti waiter giving you your food.
Either the DEVs should make food dropable, or I should go to more upmarket parties (which in reality is probably the more likely of the two...)
PSKstang
Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:26 pm
#96
I dont understand what you mean YoSpeck? Are you talking about getting rid of chef and just making food droppable. Or having not so good food items dropped kind of like some of the low grade loot weapons that NPCs drop? Not sure what you mean.
YoSpeck
Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:28 pm
#97
I dont mean droppable as in loot. I mean droppable as in I can take them out of my pack and put them on a table for other people to eat. Not being able to drop items in this game SUCKS.
PSKstang
Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:40 pm
#98
Ah I see. The only thing you can do is put someone under the administration of your house and then they can pick up items. But some items do not drop on table length so I think thats the problem you're referring to. And yea its annoying since I would love to roleplay myself setting up a table.
Ciirybeccaskyr
Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:57 pm
#99
Ja-van wrote:
/salute Nikki
That is how I feel about this patch. Maybe it is way too premature to formulate those opinions, but we know what we have, the inital data on what we are getting doesnt look very promising ATM. We know good and well that the few master chefs on teh TC can not completely test everything due to time and resource factor. I feel so lost and flusterated right now I cant stand it. Major changes to OUR profesion is happening and I feelwe have ZERO input; not being able to take my MC to the TCto Test isnt helping either.SV PLEASE tell me that TH or the other devs are going to read the good posts in this thread AND COMMENT on our concerns. BTW I think it would help this thread to get rid of the flames in here.
Denoby Master Chef of New Hope, Naboo
The devs dont care and probably will aviod these borads like the plague untill the patchis live for a few weeks and people relize that it is ideal with it or leave
They know they are nerfing Chefs and thus handicaping those of us that enjoyed our food buffs (thanks nikkii) to keep us from spending an hr of the limited amount of time i might have ( or someone might have i long ago swore off sleap to play this game although with the way this patch is looking i might go back to HALO) to hunt down a doc for some buffs so we could use our specials for any amount of time at all without killing ourselfs.
The devs are seaking to make us need groups to hunt and to do that they need to reduce our damage output. so in this line of thought they remove the advantages of having multiple DOTS gained in most every elite combat prof and more improtantly reduced out unbuffed damage output by forcing us to sit read these fourms every few min while our ham costs regen.
I have never threatened to quit over one of these across the board nerfs like this but when combined with making the past month of my free time a waste by changing the jedi system, dispite promising us that this would not happen, i think i need a break from SWG and find another game. with the money i flush every month in SoEs direction i could buy me a good game.,
Naturner
Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:24 pm
#100
Nikii_Nightstrider wrote:
heres my list of whats bothering me at this point...jurys still out on some things as we havent heard it all yet i dont think.
This post hit on a lot of my comments and concerns. My responses are in red. Thanks Nikii for my template
1. Stomach fill rate taking one hour to empty but no buffs lasting that long.
Agree. I think everyone is pretty unified on this.
2. It appears to me so far that we are losing quite a lot of stat buff ability.
Me too, but I'm going to have to see how this actually plays out on a live server, the reduction might be less than I think.
3. Yes, we got shorter to complexity to decrease factory time. But factory time didnt decrease, Im not sure on times on all the components we now have to make but Id be willing to bet our factory time to make high end drinks has just increased drastically.
Factory time was my biggest need in fixing chef. I haven't seen any hard data on this yet, so I can't scream outrage yet.
4. The current crates of food popping out only 1 serving stacks. I have customers hoarding millions of credits of food in case the patch went bad. Now that 500 serving case of breath of heaven is reduced to 25 servings?? They didnt buy 25 servings, they bought 500 servings. They should have what they bought. What are we supposed to do in the time between now and patch? We cant close shopfor lack of storage, do we continue to sell crates to people but now have to warn every customer that on some unknown day their food will be practically worthless.
Line in the sand for me....if they bug the old food on the way to the new food, I am simply going to quit. It would have nothing to do with the revamp, and I wouldn't be too clingy to the past, it is simply my personal issues with SWG and bugs, particularly huge ones like that.
5. Removal of the alcohol diversity. It makes perfect since that you make better drinks with better alcohol. This allowed us to tailor what we made for our customers byappealing to both low budget and high budget customers.
I know Doctors get advanced comps to use over regular ones, and I always viewed alcohol the same way. I'm disappointed greatly by this, and I'm guessing that it has to do with the BE interdependancy issues....if you want to spice up your food at the component level, you better have nice BE nutrients.
6. Removal of experimentation on components. I took great pride in making some of the best food on my server. Components played a very large role in this ability. By removing this ability and the effects of it, you remove a lot of the ability of the chef to make himself stand out by excelling at what he does.
I agree, this simplifies alot of my crafting to a degree I'm not very comfortable with. However, I'd bet a million bucks it's because the experimentation mathis orders of magnitude easier without computing component influences. Since you add BE tissues as a percentage on top of the normal result, those nutrients don't really mess with the formula. I am almost certain we will not get component experimentation back.
7. Containers / resource use / component use. I am not pleased about trying to beg someone to sell me stuff. As I mentioned elsewhere, I cant even find a stable supplier of spice which has got to be one of the easiest things around to make. The only person that was willing wanted to charge me 3k more per crate than their normal vendorprice (Id pay 120k extra per factory run just so I could counton it being there). I have a large brisk business. I need to know that I can get what I need when I need it. My business depends on it.I dont dislike interdepence...but it should only go so far. We shouldnt have to beg and beg and beg some more every single time we want to make a good product and hope that that person comes through with our order sometime in the next 2 weeks. Ive had several instances where my orders with people didnt arrive for 3 weeks or they just decided not to make it and didnt bother to tell me. Maybe I just have bad luck here. But my real beef about this part is after going through all that headache, Ill get much less product for my resource? A novice chef container produces a more efficient product than a master chef container? Does that mean chefs get progressively dumber? hehe seriously, once you become a master, you should *more* efficient not less. If you have to go through all that trouble of getting full factory runs from multiple people to make one factory run yourself, it should be a darn good product, not a waste of resources.
I'm wrestling with everyone else on our new found dependancy on several professions. I like to think of myself as a real team player, but when it comes to craftables that I sell to end users, I'm going to be picky and hard to please. For me to have a reliable dealer deliver hundreds of crates a week, well, it's probably not going to go well. Good luck to anyone who finds that perfect partnership with a Master BE.
8. While I realize it would be unbalancing to have the skill mods be very large, most of our foods appear to be skill mods of one type or another. With the amount of the mod being so small, it doesnt seem that there would be much room to make a whole lot better product than someone else. But this is a thought on my part, I dont have information to back up that assumption.
I am probably way off, but I don't see these skill mods really catching on all that much. Power gamers will find the 5 best, and exploit the system with them. As the combat system is still ironed out, the best foods will shift to fit the current fad in combat. This will be hell on my logistics.
In summary, overall Im extremely disappointed with what Ive seen. It seems we now will be making much less desirable food, which can be used less oftenand much more comparable to each other in what we can produce. It seems there will be little roomto develop a reputation as a good chef other than by service, stocked vendor and price. In addition to things looking less attractive, it will now entail more headaches to get things of lesser quality than we make now made.
sciguyCO
Fri Jan 23, 2004 10:43 pm
#101
Naturner wrote:
Nikii_Nightstrider wrote:
5. Removal of the alcohol diversity. It makes perfect since that you make better drinks with better alcohol. This allowed us to tailor what we made for our customers byappealing to both low budget and high budget customers.
I know Doctors get advanced comps to use over regular ones, and I always viewed alcohol the same way. I'm disappointed greatly by this, and I'm guessing that it has to do with the BE interdependancy issues....if you want to spice up your food at the component level, you better have nice BE nutrients.
6. Removal of experimentation on components. I took great pride in making some of the best food on my server. Components played a very large role in this ability. By removing this ability and the effects of it, you remove a lot of the ability of the chef to make himself stand out by excelling at what he does.
I agree, this simplifies alot of my crafting to a degree I'm not very comfortable with. However, I'd bet a million bucks it's because the experimentation mathis orders of magnitude easier without computing component influences. Since you add BE tissues as a percentage on top of the normal result, those nutrients don't really mess with the formula. I am almost certain we will not get component experimentation back.
Count me in on aggreing on these two issues. Component experimentation added a lot of diversity to what we could do, since it gave two (or three, if vegeparsine worked) levels to aim a food a certain way.
Hoping it's not too late, I'd like to propose that component experimentation be brought back, and advanced components be available. Why not use the same code as the additives? Experiment on the components, and they add w% to filling, x% to nutrition, y% on flavor, and z% to quantity.The devs might even use a simple fraction of the component's experimental percentage to yield the addition to the final combine. Low level components like dough and carbosyrup may have a 1/20th multiplier: a 50/50/50/50 experimented carbosyrup would add 2.5% to the appropriate stat(s) of the final food. Alcohol could be 1/10th multiplier, Aludian 1/5th. The advanced components may be something for a future publish, but the experimental addition could conceivably be hotfixed before this one goes live.
AyaOnane
Fri Jan 23, 2004 11:59 pm
#102
okay .. sorry if I repeat anything that's already been said a zillion times ..
BE Components:
Why? oh WHY! do we have to take the extra step of converting the BE component into a "Food Addative"?! It adds a step that's IMHO not at all benificial. If we could experiment on it and make it even better, I'd understand, but as it stands we can't. Take this out PLEASE!
The bonus to quantity from BE addatives is nice! I about doubled (or more) each of my quantities when I used them. The Flavor additives didn't seem to do much .. but then maybe they weren't high enough ... (see details here)
Containers:
It doesn't make sense that a large glass takes 10x the resources of a glass, but only gives an additional 50% bonus to the quantity. I'd like to see either a reduction in the resource requirements or an increase in the quantity bonus.
I'm sure I'll have more later, but that was all I did tonight ...
Issharraan
Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:11 am
#103
Just a little warning. Sorry if i tend to ramble on abit. Chef was my first choice of profession even months before the game came out. Even though it was buggy and still is. I've stuck with it. Having my food kill the customers didn't make me drop it, having all unfinished stacks of food become unusable and the complaints itcaused didn't make me drop it. Having to slave for holocrons (17 masteries so far, still going) hasn't made me drop it... though I might have to temporarily drop a few bits and pieces to get those last few in if need be.
And you know what? Even if this patch will be the death of the chef population. I wouldn't drop it. If I ever give up on chef. It'll be the end of SWG for me.
Butfirst off, a lil more background info for all the curious ones. Been playing since very early July. Issharraan, Sunrunner server. Proud Wookiee Master Chef since mid august. Pride myself, like so many other chefs do. On providing the very best product I possibly can. I've spentendless hours surveying every single planet to chart the flora available even when fully stocked on everything. I have gathered high quality materials for ANY schematic in my posession. And I'll never give up on improving my food. I prefer to mostly keep my business small and to stay out of the spotlight. Hence the few posts. But when something major like this happens to our profession. Everyone has to chip in to make sure it pans out in the best possible way.
So... Here goes, bettergrab a Tatooine Sunburn,an Ice Blaster or two and a bite of Corellian Fried Icecream toget you through,'cause this ride WILL require stamina, focus and willpower to get through! 
Also, to end it on a possitive note.. I'll list my dislikes first. Along with my opinion on how to fix it.
1. Containers:
Lots of issues here in my opinion. I see so manypossibilitiesinthis.. and it ends upso.. sad really. First of all, adding this element makes a HUGE gap between food and drink. This is a no no and why can't we make say, plates, trays and buffets of food? why make them so glaringly different, and potentially less/more favorable? From my POV right now food will be easy for anyone to make, while drinks will take time and patience if you want to do it right. Plus the material cost on food seems to be around 100-200 units for good BE enhanced stuff where a good BE enhanced DRINK will be 500-600 units. That's out of whack.
And while some people make a big deal out of this. No. the interdependency doesn't bother me TOO much apart from the fact that i'll need to find a few reliable master artisans/tailors to keep me stocked on the components needed in the crafting of casks and barrels, Other professions have to deal with this. Only fair that we should as well.
Onto the real problems though. Containers should not be the component... the drink should. Many reasons for this. Main one being that adding a drink to a container holds no real danger of messing up seeing as they have no experimentation. Adding a barrel to a drink makes the "risk" included in experimenting on it almost unacceptable. Even as a master I get a TON of "Moderate success"'es and being the perfectionist I am on this area. That's not good enough and will force me to start a new attempt. That's 400 units material lost right there, 500 if using BE components. If it takes mesay.. five to ten attempts to get the perfect schematic (not an unlikely event currently, usually seems to take me an average of 10 attempts before i'm content with the quality of my schematic) I'd be loosing 4k material or more just by trying to make a schematic for a single drink in a barrel. NOT acceptable.
Second beef with this system is that containers only affect quantity, Making the lesser ones pretty unusable. Keep in mind that this system depends on the above mentioned one in my layout of it.
(unless thehigh level ones areas bad as it seems so far) Why restrict it? Here's what *I* personally thing would be great for this system and would make them all viable choices.
Large Glass (everyone can toss stuff in a blender and pour it in a glass eh?) given at Novice Artisan
No stat mods at all. just basic drink component stats.
Cask (Making large quantities of any one drink DOES require more skill than just making one "serving") given at Novice Chef
+50% quantity (based on the material cost of this vs. the large glass) no other mods.
Small Glass (Or more appropriately, Shot Glass. Small dosage of highly potent drink) Given at Mixology II
-50% filling/flavor, +50% nutrition, same quantity.
Barrel (Considering what goes into these they sound like quite the technical wonder don't they? Should be the prime choice for any master chef. regardless of resource cost) given at master chef
-25% filling, +25% nutrition/duration. +100% quantity.
Curious thing about this is, that based on the results we've seen on the threads so far. Alot of the drinks seem to scream for a BE additive. In my opinion. WE should have some way to enhance our drinks on our own. plus.. come on. the cost of a single barrel of BE'ed drink would be nuts anyway. 500-600 units material with four combines needed. One alcohol, One Additive, One Container and One Drink. With the work and resources needed. I'd say a 5k price tag was fair if not abit cheap. In the current system.I'm not convinced any single BE drink in a barrel will be worth that.
2.DR as an experimental factor for filling:
Filling is bound to be one of the major factors in the new scheme of things. I'd rate effect first, filling second, quantity third and flavor waay behind on fourth place. So ALOT ofthe materials I've gathered will now be useless as I've never had to worry about DR before.I haven't sorted through all my bags yet so don't know how bad it is. But from the 10-15 resouces i randomly pulled to check. only 3-4 had a DR of 700 or over. Would like to note that I don't mind the SR issue too much since this has no effect on the flora i've collected which is by FAR the majority of my stash.
3. Crates vs. Single Servings:
It has to be said. Right now we basically only make schematics and make factory runs of our foods and drinks. I doubt anyone out there hand crafts all their food. Not just due to time consumption. But simply because people DEMAND crates.
The new drink systemdoesn't seem to be made withthis in mind.It's been brought in line with the other crafters. Factories are for the components. WE do the combining on the final product by hand. DE's, Armorsmiths, Weaponsmiths,Tailors and architects all do it this way. BUT,it just doesn't work that way for chef though. Our product is highly expendable. One item with 10 charges, even with the new durations won't last long. people will want multiple foods and drinks and they do NOT want to have to visit us every other day to re-stock. This is a problem that NO other crafter faces. I mean.. come on. Try talking an armorsmith into making you 25 chest plates in a crate. He'd die laughing at the mere suggestion. yet. even with the new system. We'll be expected to HAVE full crates of barrel'ed drinks available on our vendor.
4. Components get no stats..?
First off.. The impressions i've gotten from the other threads. Alcohol has no stats, and it seems this is the norm for components in for chef now.
As some others have stated. I too liked having different alcohols. True,I didn't use Sullustan Gin and Kylessian Fruit Distilate too often. But i had the choice to if i needed to make display items or if i ran out of good radioactives (well.. it happens). Also, and I think this will be a VERY sore spot for those out there with
the +2 experimentation points. THIS was where the difference in quality was determined. they didn't just get 12 points on the final combine. they got 12 points on the components too making their foods THAT much better than food made with 10 points. I'm guessing this goes for any of the other crafters too, getting the12 points means you SHOULD get abig step ahead of us "normal masters". Removing the component stats ONLY helps the grinders and people just in it for money or stocking up for personal use (which shouldn't be the one we get our profession optimized for in my view)
Think that's about it. for suggestions and complaints.. on to the good stuff!
1. New buff possibilities!
I can't express how happy i am about this change. While I do think we still need stat buffs, I don't really mourn the loss of most of them. As many like to point out. Spice is what you use for a safety heal if you're in a pinch, and doc/entertainer buffs is what you use if you want to get BUFFED. I personally never saw the lure of fishak and only really kept one or two on me since i don't use spice, but i'm always doctor buffed. so mind goes low. I take a hit. Now, I'll be able to heal my mind 4-5 times every hour instead. I'm still happy. Though my costumers might need a lil convincing here. 
Bottom line though. This is what Chef should've been for all along (and what I thought it WOULD be before i ever played the game). We can do minor buffs to keep move cost down. But our strength will be the skill mod buffs. Incidentally. This will actually make it easier for us to identify what professions want what too. I've never been able to keep track of this on the current system (thougha hit ofaround +500 ryshcate and a shot ofaround +600 BoHseemed to pretty much cover ANYneed in my experience, what beats NO HAM cost?)
2. Customization options on EVERYTHING!
I've long wanted the BE components to be useful and lo and behold... now they WILL be! Sure. they're still going to add alot to the cost and probably will be a let down on performance.. but we can CHOOSE to use them in anything now. Only things i made before this that could even use 'em was Glazed Glucose Pate and Bivoli Tempari. And only the quantity stats on these ever bothered me and from my experimentation and attempts. the result didn't justify doubling the resource cost. That said, some of the results we're seeing from TC does seem like the effect of a good BE component would justify the cost.500+ point mind heal Blue Milk, reduced damage for100 attacks on a synthsteak, 50% resists to DoT's? If the BE stuff works like it should. This should all be attainable for the dedicated chef (with fairly good connections) And as a side note.. yes. I'm a sucker for effect. can't deny it.
3. NEW ART!
I haven't seen a single person mention this yet. But am I correct in assuming that no two food items in there are identical now? I am of course still quite curious about how the different drinks look in the containers. hehe. But i'm suspecting that part won't be visual
4. I GET A HAT!
Yes. I'm a Wookiee Chef and proudly so. And dangit. this was more than i ever expected. I might even have to go as far as to run around 24/7 in my brand new fancy Bake Master's Hat and possibly even an Apron (even though wookiee's in shirt looks horribly odd somehow, think it's the no pants thing as was mentioned elsewhere)
5. Milk?!?!
Ooooh.. can it be true? We finally get milk! true enough that many of the schematics that needed it are now gone. But this just makes it so much easier for us.
6. LESS schematics.
I doubt i was the only one sick and tired of the schematic clutter. I tried making one of everything once. Never made over 75% of them more than that one time. About time it got cleaned out i say. Most of it wasn't all that interesting anyway.
In conclusion.. I think I'm beginning to like the change. It's a BIG step to do it all at once and I'll never agree with it. But I do see alot of potential down the road. My first impulse was to just downright drop it. But the more I think about it. The more I know I'd regret it once they get all the kinks out and actually get it shaped into a respectable profession again.
Whew.. about time this tired wook headed to bed. Quite a big mouthful. Even for someone that go through a few crates of food every week.
Issharrraan
The self proclaimed best **EDIT** chef on Sunrunner!
P.S. If'n i make no sense. Please forgive me. Two hours in the making. It's not 8 AM and i'm fairly googly eyed. Can't be bothered to start proof reading now!
Issharraan
Sat Jan 24, 2004 12:47 am
#104
Crud. being tired and clumsy cost me my extra comment. so i'll do a quick recap.
Stomach level for new food = good
Stomach level for old food = bad
Customers won't be happy if they still have crates upon crates of old stuff stored away. Waste of their money. I won't be able to do anything about it. Won't cook till new patch hits.
So please SirVimes! If you hear anything on when this goes live. Tell us ASAP so we can warn the customers.
Also BIG thank you are in order to you as well SirVimes. Great job on not loosing your head through all this. I think many lesser men would've gone insane in the last month with all the pressure that's been on you.
Congrats to GreenMarine and anyone else working on this revamp too though. Should've given us a chance to contribute to it all before the changes were set in stone. But hopefully. it'll all pan out in the end!
Issharraan of Sunrunner
Wookiee Master Chef/Jack-of-all-trades/Rebel Colonel and all 'round good guy (Just read AngelOfHate's on-going story in the Sunrunner galaxy forum and you'll see! If it's written in a story it CAN'T be a lie!)