Chef Archive

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Sleksheea wrote:

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LOL, your an idiot.

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Okin_Sin wrote:

I keep reading about how long these INNs and BSNs take in the factory ... you guys do realize we have to put them all back in for another LONG factory run after we get em from you? BE additives are only half done when we get them, we still have to add 10-20 water each to them and put them back in the factory just to make food additives out of the tissues.

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Okin_Sin wrote:
DIV>Another point to consider is how these are sold. Im assuming other chefs are like me, and would never buy a few crates of BSNs or INNs at a time. You basically need at miniimum 20 of the same run most likely a full run is what a Chef would want to buy at once. Say we get a full run of BSNs and make the brandy with them all. I have never had a customer show up and buy 20-40 crates of Brandy at one time. A customer will buy a crate of brandy and a crate of something else, go on their way, and come back when they need more food. BEs have the unique ability to sell entire factory runs to one person, you can't expect the same type of profit from this type of a sale.

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Message Edited by Lozareth on 07-27-2004 04:11 PM

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YornCM wrote:

So far all my dealings with BE's have been fine. I end up paying btwn 25-40k for crates of tissues. It's just hard to maintain a consistent supply.

One thing I think we all should take into account is the fact the economy in this game is still in flux. I think after the combat balance we'll see some price changes across the board. For example, at this timea playercan make 1 million credits in a night running solo missions, so chef's, BE's etc. can overcharge on everything. What's going to happen when it's no longer possible to run solo missions all the time? Do you all think this will impact prices?

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1Amulius1 wrote:

I dont wanna get into this too much, but im a Master Chef/Merchant/Artisan and MAyor of My town.

I know a BE that will make me schemes, but she is reluctant.

Lately i have just been buying the crates cuase its a helluva lot easier than trying to collect Meat.

She charges 45k for 87 BSN's, 40k for 117 INN, and i'll buy anything that is greater or equal to 84/114.

I had a hard time last night distinguishing all the crates on the vendor, so i just bought them out, buying i believe 120-130 crates and spending 5-6 mil.

I would have gladly payed 50k per crate, seeing as 120-130 crates of food/drink would brind in teens-twnety Mil creds roughly.

Its all about the ease of getting the Nutrients. If they are there, Chefs will pay what you charge.

We understand its hard to get the Meat etc., but as the saying goes, "If you stock it, they will come"

Anyone agree? or am a beating a dead kaadu? Peace from Ahazi.

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Okin_Sin wrote:

Another point to consider is how these are sold. Im assuming other chefs are like me, and would never buy a few crates of BSNs or INNs at a time. You basically need at miniimum 20 of the same run most likely a full run is what a Chef would want to buy at once. Say we get a full run of BSNs and make the brandy with them all. I have never had a customer show up and buy 20-40 crates of Brandy at one time. A customer will buy a crate of brandy and a crate of something else, go on their way, and come back when they need more food. BEs have the unique ability to sell entire factory runs to one person, you can't expect the same type of profit from this type of a sale.

I'm afraid I don't understand why selling 20 crates to 1 person deserves less of a profit that selling 1 crate to 20 people. In the end, 20 crates have disappeared from the vendor without any additional labor one way or the other. If you personally had to deliver 1 crate to 20 different people, then I would understand a higher profit due to labor.

Also look at the effectivness of a crate of BSNs compared to a crate of Brandy. BSNs are great, and they really do help out foods a ton. But an entire crate of BSNs is part of a component that leads to one sale. Its not even a whole component, its a component of a component. So on one hand you have a crate of BSNs that a Chef can make in to a Food Additive, then use it as one of the components to make a crate of Brandy, which equals 1 sale. The Chef though has one sale of Brandy that on average enhances Mind Focus and Willpower for 45 minutes with 18 uses (I know this can be higher, but its a good average) Thats 810 minutes of Mind Focus and Willpower enhnacments per bottle.

I really wish you had mentioned the effectiveness of a crate of BSN's in this paragraph. See my next comment.

So to recap you are selling a component for a component that goes in to Brandy. Chef is offereing 337.5 HOURS of Mind Focus and Willpower enhancment. Even using the brandy to double buff your still getting 168.75 HOURS of Mind Focus and Willpower enhancement.

Look at the situation without emotion, without refering to X proffesion is Y harder to level then Z proffesion etc. Just look at the end product, 337.5 HOURS of mind enhancemnts vs. a partial component and you see exactly why Brandy has a higher profit margin.

I'd like to offer a different perspective. Rather than calling a BSN 'a component for a component', try looking at it this way: The BSN translates to 337.5 hours of YYY additional mind enhancements. Now I'm not a chef, Okin_Sin, but could you fill in YYY for me? And if BSN's allow you to max nutritional experimentation (I'm just guessing the name of that experimentation line), are you then able to experiment more in the flavor and/or duration experimentation lines? So can we say BSN's now translate to 337.5 hours of YYY additional mind enhancementsplus XXX hours of (ZZZ+YYY) mind enhancements? (I'm a math teacher in RL, so I understand what I'm talking about, even if I've managed to lose everybody else ) I just wanted to give a different perspective from just 'a component of a component, Okin_Sin.

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Fantastic post, Ankor, thanks!

Ankor wrote:

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aswex wrote:

I would like to state my own opinion about the selling of schematics. I waited a while before doing this because I wanted to hear your opinions first and I felt that stating my opinion in my original post would have started this thread on the wrong track. My 'base prices' for MNS's, BSN's and INN'sare based on bonuses of +50, +80 and +110. I add an additional 10% to the base price for each additional +1 bonus. If I were to sell a schematic, I would probably charge whatever my profit would be for a base price tissue, regardless of the actual bonus. This would come out to 192.5k for MNS's, 270k for BSN's, and 300k for INN's. Of course, I must address the obvious: 200-300k for2 minutes of work and no cost? I do a great deal of work surveying for my flora suppliers and networking with my hunters. Therefore, if I have the choice between making 200k+ for my hard work already done or 50k (chef-suggested schematic price)for no work, I'll choose 200k+ (for +87 BSN's or +117 INN's I can make 700k+).

As a Chef I take pride in the quality of my foods, and I want to control how they turn out. I can't use +80 BSNs. I won't use 84s. By providing the resources to make the additives that go into my foods, I make sure that my food is up to my standards.

I very rarely stock anything less than +53, +83 or +113, butthe bonus for determining mybase price was determined by the result of using decent flora and decent meat.

It's ridiculous to charge the same price for 40 crates of additives as the schematic to produce them (as some BEs have suggested is "fair"). Your 270k amount seems rather exorbitant as well. I understand that BE requires a substantive investment in skill credits and a rather painful grind, and that your time adds value to my product. I have no difficulty compensating you for that. But charging the same price is, in essence, forcing me to pay for resurces I myself am providing. I paid for them once already, thank you. Fortunately not all BEs are unreasonable on this point, and a Chef only has to find one to work with. I personally pay 75k/schem, and try to have 5-10 made at a time to limit the inconvenience to my partners. They've never complained.

I agree that it is ridiculous to charge the same price for 40 crates of additives as the schematic to produce them. I'm not certain, but you seem to indicate in the rest ofyour paragraph that you think I do this.To use real numbers: I charge 660k for +80s, 985k for +85s and 1,115k for +87s. It costs me 390k for the tissues. However, if you bring me ingredients and ask me to make a schematic, it will cost you 270k regardless of how high the bonus is. If I charged you 660k, that in essence, would be forcing you to pay for resources that you yourself are providing. Charging you 270kdoes the exact opposite of what you think it does:it's the price that doesn't include the cost of the resources!

Also, an in-game friend of mine once taught me "You have to spend money to make money." I would expect a chef with good business sense to know that, and considering the profits seen from many foods other than brandy, the extra 150-200k for a schematic requiring admittedly little workby the BEis worth it. I'd still rather you buy the tissues directly from me.

It's not a #1 or #2 type of decision, at least for me. Let's presume I live on some mythical server (because this sure doesn't describe Bria) where there's a BE vendor who has full runs of 1000 86%-87% BSNs, conveniently loaded into single backpacks on his vendor just outside Coronet. Now, Let's say I'm running low on BSNs and decide to go stock up. Here's my day:
Time of Departure (ToD) -5 minutes: I spend 5 minutes clearing out my backpack so that I have enough room to purchase 40 items.
ToD: I leave the house.
ToD +3: get to Entha.
ToD +10: shuttle to Coronet.
ToD +15: arrive at vendor, purchase 40 crates of BSN.
ToD +30: arrive back home, drag 40 crates into factory.
ToD +45: back at vendor...
ToD +60: finding room to store 40 more crates in factory #6.
ToD +75: back at vendor...
ToD +90: back home.
after 2 hours spent at shuttleports: 4 runs of BSNs stowed in my input hoppers.

Compare that to just dropping a couple resource stacks into a factory and running a schematic. Now, to enter the real world for a moment, you've got to include time spent finding a vendor who's actually stocked, who has full runs, who has high quality additives...

Purchasing completed BSNs from a vendor is way more difficult to manage from both a time and storage standpoint, when compared to being able to carry 1000 BSNs as a single item in my datapad (schematic).

Excellent points all (I loved your post). I really can only offer the followingrebuttal:three chefseach spending two hours picking up two full runs of BSN's is preferable to one BE spending six hoursdelivering six full runs of BSNs to three different chefs. I know this because I used to have my vendor on a different planet from my harvesters and factories, and I used to make the trips twice a week or more while the chefs dropped by once a week. But really, the selling of schematics would make life easier for both the chefs and theBE if 1) the chefs don't mind spending the time procuring that much more flora and meat and 2) the BE doesn't mind havinghis income reduced by 75%. By the way, Ankor,Ifigured out how totravel light and can equip a backpack with a full run while carrying a backpack with a full run. If Bria ever grows some fully-stocked BE vendors, you should definitely look into that

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Summary:
Buying schematics is simpler, far far far far lighter on storage, flexible with my production schedule, allows me to maintain quality control, simpler to transport, saves gobs of my time....

Absolutely.

Why would I ever want to purchase finished additives? To equal the convenience... no, convenience is a poorly chosen word. To equal the limited annoyance purchasing schematics rather than additives provides me, a BE would need to transport his wares to my home, dropping them directly into my factories. He would have to do this on demand, 24x7. This system is obviously unworkable, as no BE can (or would ever want to) provide that type of service.

Completely understandable.

The whole additive system is, from a storage and supply chain viewpoint, severely flawed in design for a high-volume market like the one Chefs deal in. Purchasing schematics (or working with an on-site BE, like a PA mate or alt char) is the best solution to this poor design. If purchasing schems becomes difficult to arrange, I'll grind up BE. There is no way I'd stay in the Chef business if I had to purchase additives.

Good point. However, regarding the use of PA mates or alts... grrrr. I hate that idea. I think it poisons the economy.

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Thanks again for a well-written, well-thought-out post, Ankor. 5 stars!