Chef Archive
Thread: I hate to say this but...
Top notch heals heal well over 1200H/A, top medic buffs are over 1k, so why shouldnt a chef buff be comparible ?
As for smuggler, they also slice terminals, weapons, armour, AND make spices, whereas a chef only exists to make food, so for overall flexibility and effectiveness, I think we do rather poorly compared to chef & medic in the buff line.
If anything, we should see 1000-1500 buffs in all the secondary/tertiary stats at master level.
Just some information for you regarding Doctor's Enhancements. Please read it over to better understand just what it takes to use them.
When utilizing advanced components, a doctor can create enhancement packs that can buff health, strength, consitution, action, quickness, and stamina for over 3000 points for a non-bugged duration of over an hour. It takes me, a master docter, approximately 2 minutes to buff all the stats on one player.
On the flip side, creation of these enhancement packs is extremely prohibitive, both in cost and time. Each D-class enhancement takes 5 factory components, 1 non factory component, high quality avian meat and the same hard to find reactive gas as that used in sunburns. These meds are so hard to come by that I will not sell them. And if I did, you'd be looking at around 2000 credits for a basic enhance D (about 7 charges) that uses regular components, and up and over 5k for ones utilizing advanced resources (20 charges or so). More to the point, I will not sell them as I do not want them to ever be used against my PAin PvP.
Are they the end all be all to buffing? With the exception to not being able to boost Mind, Focus, or Willpower, I would say yes, even at their cost.
Before drawing a conclusion on whether the statsto our foods need to be revised, I'd like to see some numbers on how food much impact food experimation can make as a master chef.
High duration and effect buffs SHOULD require factory components IMO. The entire food/drink line is totally unorganised.
However, a broken list doesnt mean the only high buff should be nerfed because its in teh wrong line....
Our buffs should be comparable to, if not better than, teh buffs in other lines - at the same costs, especially as it is the ONLY thing we can do.
With 10 experimentation points at master, I can get sunburn to about 1819 Str/Stam -89focus 420s with decent ingredients, and all Good or Amazing Successes, in a stack of 3.
It takes 2 Starshine Suprise's, each taking 15cereal, 15 reactive gas, 10 mineral, plus an additional 20 reactive gas.
The Surprises do not have to be identical.
IMO This should be a master level buff, with master level requirements. It is currently in Mixology II.
Flameout is a master buff : +1k Health, -220 focus and willpower, 215s unexperimented, and takes 15 reactive gas, 15 tubers, 10 siliclastic ore and 4 identical sollustrian Gin (each one taking 10 cereal, 5 metal, 5 reactive gas.
Now, considering the negatives, I think that is a reasonable buff for a master chef to make, yet IMO it is surpassed by Sunshine at Mix II.
The Highesst buffing item in Entree line is Rakirian Burnout Sauce in Entree's IV : 20 water, 30 Evergreen wood, 20 liquid petro, 1 carbosyrup (6 flora food), giving +580str +580qui -580focus for 160s unexperimented.
Those are the high buffers, and there is no logic to the positioning of the buffs. The Highest buffer is in mix II, then Master, then Entree's IV.
The next best is for "only" 250mind -185 action/620s at master chef. So we have 3 buffs that are "over" smuggler level/foraged level, and 1-2 that are partially comparable to a Doctor's buffs.
The only advantage is that you dont need a doctor following you to buff.
Yes, Sunburn is in the wrong level, as are 99% of our foods (both up & downward), but I think its a perfectly reasonable Master item, given factory required components, when you also consider a chef ONLY makes food and drink.
We cannot heal, heal wounds, slice etc. Therefore, the masters SHOULD have excellent buffs.
On the time to craft, it has taken my factory 20 hours to make 200 Starshine Suprises and then 100 Sunburns.
I would also like to point out, our factories TOTALLY ignore any "uses" on a schematic, so while the enh packs cost 120 resources, use 6 components, for 7 charges - using a factory, I use 100 resources fo 1 charge, and 2 components - so multiply that by 7, for 7 buffs, thats 7 00 resources & 14 non-factory components.
Flameout made in a factory : 130 resources - 4 factory components for a stack of 1.
I dont get anywhere near 2-5k for my items, the most I charge is 600 credits, which is less than 4cr per resource.
Yes, I can craft items manually and make more charges at the expense of effectiveness/duration. Oh, and can you say how long it woild take in a factory to make 100 Enh packs ? It's taken me 20 hours today (yes, been on 20 hours
) to make 100 Sunburns via factory 
> the most I charge is 600 credits, which is less than 4cr per resource.
That's your own fault. I charge 4-5 per resource for most items, and quite a bit more for sunburn, and I sell. Raise your prices?
> Yes, I can craft items manually and make more charges at the expense of effectiveness/duration.
Which you should be doing. Makingany food other than componentsin a factory is a waste. It's not all that slow to handcraft. Yeah the bug sucks, but btw factories don't work all that well for meds either - we have a lot of problem with factories not removing components from crates.
> Oh, and can you say how long it woild take in a factory to make 100 Enh packs ? It's taken me 20 hours today (yes, been on 20 hours) to make 100 Sunburns via factory
I hope you're not experimenting on your Starshines, cuz it has no effect. Non-experimented Starshines will go a lot faster.Anyway, I make stims in a factory, and it takes me a good 2 days of play to get a crate of 50Stim C's done - 2 components on day 1, and a componet + stims on day 2. That gets me one crate of C's, the second crate doesn't tend to work unless I unpack 150 components by hand into the factory. That's just stims... enhance packs are much much harder. My factory does both food and meds, and I'd say it spends 80% of its time on meds and just 20% or lesson food.
Anyway, comparing doc to chef buffs. Doc buffs are much better, in general. However, they have a lot of bugs related to death & zoning, require a doc on hand, don't buff the mind pool, and are extremely expensive and difficult to make. Food is much much easier to make across the board, but also in general sucks (sunburn being an anomaly). Sunburn really shoudl be a master chef item, and be much harder/more expensive to make, and the rest of the chef stuff should get a significant boost.
That's your own fault. I charge 4-5 per resource for most items, and quite a bit more for sunburn, and I sell. Raise your prices?"
I have trouble selling ANY food, nevermind at ridiculously inflated prices. While I was grinding, I couldn't even GIVE the stuff away.
There is currently a general lack of understanding of the way SWG handles buffing by a majority of players.
"> Yes, I can craft items manually and make more charges at the expense of effectiveness/duration.
Which you should be doing. Making any food other than components in a factory is a waste. It's not all that slow to handcraft. Yeah the bug sucks, but btw factories don't work all that well for meds either - we have a lot of problem with factories not removing components from crates"
Yes we all suffer from almost useless factoris :/ however, you have teh option of crafting full-charge items whilst not present, I so not, thats the point I was making (hell its 1:30am and Im slightly inebriated
)"> Oh, and can you say how long it woild take in a factory to make 100 Enh packs ? It's taken me 20 hours today (yes, been on 20 hours) to make 100 Sunburns via factory
I hope you're not experimenting on your Starshines, cuz it has no effect. Non-experimented Starshines will go a lot faster. Anyway, I make stims in a factory, and it takes me a good 2 days of play to get a crate of 50 Stim C's done - 2 components on day 1, and a componet + stims on day 2. That gets me one crate of C's, the second crate doesn't tend to work unless I unpack 150 components by hand into the factory. That's just stims... enhance packs are much much harder. My factory does both food and meds, and I'd say it spends 80% of its time on meds and just 20% or less on food."
Actually, I do get a slight overall increase in maximum effectiveness with experimentation, but this run wasnt experimented on. Glad to know it's not just chef's that suffer the speed issue
"Anyway, comparing doc to chef buffs. Doc buffs are much better, in general. However, they have a lot of bugs related to death & zoning, require a doc on hand, don't buff the mind pool, and are extremely expensive and difficult to make. Food is much much easier to make across the board, but also in general sucks (sunburn being an anomaly). Sunburn really shoudl be a master chef item, and be much harder/more expensive to make, and the rest of the chef stuff should get a significant boost."
Yup, we are in total agreement there.
A lot of peoples "NERF THIS NOW" posts are based on lack of knowledge of the issue, and Im grateful for this little dialog we've had on here, it has been very productive
- but the costs are comparable in general, as looking over things, we use pretty similar quantities of resources, if we just use that as a base to go from Re-reading my posts, I may come across as though I was having a go at you - I wasnt, I was finding it quite thought provoking, and also made me look at my profession a little harder, whilst also seeing the state of the competition so to speak.
"The numbers are indeed impressive, but I have to agree with Cyrene that the in-game impact is not so huge that it calls out to nerfage. The smuggler spice that increases Health by +1000 (and a lot of other nice stat boosts) will have a much greater impact in any single combat. And remember we have to talk about single combat situations, because thats all the longer Chef buffs last."
A 1000 pt health boost is far less powerful than a 3000 pt stamina boost. Like i said before, a 3000 pt stamina boost will net you 5040 action points over a 5 minuute period. Once you lose the 1000 health, its gone for good. Secondary regen stats are the real power behind SWG.
Ok, lets do a direct comparison between Doctors, spices, tat sunburn to give my argument some merit.
Doctors:
Can buff a single stat considerably. Buffs last for about 50 minutes. Secondary stats (such as stamina, quickness, cons) cannot be buffed as highly as primary stats (thus confirming my theory that secondary stats are supposed to be harder to buff). A master doctor can normally buff stamina by ~1500. This buff wears off if you die, cross server zones (ouch), or use shuttles. These effects are not stackable. The buff requires that a doctor be present to administer the buff. To reach master doctor you must master two professions which requires 135 skill points.
Smugglers:
Can buff multiple stats, but limited to stats that are buffed by the spices they create. Buffs last from 13-10 minutes with a 3 minute downer time at the end where your stats are reduced and you puke. These effects are not stackable. The smuggler only has one buff for stamina (pixie) and that buffs stamina +50. Booster blue is the best action buff, and it buffs action/quickness by +400. The smuggler need not be present to administer the buff. To get the best spices requires 78 skill points.
Chefs:
Can buff multiple stats, but are limited by the foods they create. Buffs last around 3 minutes and can be stacked on each other, and come in stacks of more than 1. There are no side effects. Chefs can experiment their foods to decrease the filling and increase the stack size. The chef need not be present to administer the buff. Stack size can be as high as 9 depending on the chef's level. Tatooine sunburn can increase stamina by +3000 (or more, havent tried highly experimented tat sunburns) AND str by +3000. By statistics, this is the best action buff in the game, and the chef need not be present to apply the buff. To get Tat sunburn requires 44 skill points, the lowest skill requirement of any buff.
Can you see now why I claim this is imbalanced? Buff other chef food? Sure. But if you are claiming that your other food should be buffed, tat sunburn should be nerfed.
"1) Explain why you think this is overpowered. Just saying +1500 is too much makes no sense."
Read above post.
2) Quit saying its +3000 and pay attention to what REAL chefs are posting. If you drink 2 at once, you are gonna be at +3000 for 5 minutes, and then +0 for AWHILE bcause you just drank 2 and filled up like a dork. Not to mention, there is absolutely ZERO benefit to having a secondary stat at +3000 vs +1500.
Spices have a period in between where you are unbuffed as well. Push.
"3) If Chefs got Slicing and other neato abilities like Smugglers, maybe you could balance the classes together. But as it is, Smuggler spices totally own Chef food AND you can make TONs of cash slicing weapons and terminals. Sorry if I don't feel sorry for you."
Just because smugglers have other fun abilities doesnt balance off the spices tree at all. I for one dont slice at all. At any rate, this isnt supposed to be a "who should get the nerf stick" argument. This is about if tat sunburns are too powerful or not.
"4) Also, maybe you shouldn't list your Smuggler buffs as an argument. One of our biggest issue now is we are ALL food (no slicing, etc) and our buffs PALE in comparison. So yes, yours are better and last longer (even with the dowtime). Not to mention, our fix was to MAKE OUR RECIPES BETTER, not nerf Smugglers."
I didnt bring up the smuggler argument, your chef correspondant did. I'm not talking about other food. Perhaps that does need to be increased, I dont know (judging from the sales in my store it seems that chef food is rather popular at its current statistics any way). Were talking about tat sunburns here.
"Well, we are a broken profession and u come here and suggest that drivel w/o even backing it up. What did you expect, unequivocal support?"
And as far as beating a broken profession, you are right, I am. I dont wish any ill will on any chefs on here. But I could either beat a dead horse by complaining about other obviously broken professions (CH, BH, knockdowns in general), or bring up something to light that hasnt really been brought up before.
Furthermore, (going on a bit of a rant here)I think its only fair that all professions be critical and fairto themselves. Otherwise this whole correspondent thing will just turn into who can whine the loudest about how their profession in the most broken profession in the game. Because honestly, looking at all the profession boards right now EVERY profession must be the weakest profession in the game.
deadjawas wrote:
Just because smugglers have other fun abilities doesnt balance off the spices tree at all. I for one dont slice at all. At any rate, this isnt supposed to be a "who should get the nerf stick" argument. This is about if tat sunburns are too powerful or not.
You are asking for them to nerf the only decent thing a chef can make. So yes, you are asking them to nerf chefs.
Tat sunburns are too powerful. But until the major bugs affecting the power of our other buffs are fixed, nerfing them would be an official
"**edit** you,
XXX, the dev's"
to all chef's. If they were a master buff, they'd be fine.