Chef Archive
Thread: Major change to drinks
Slythetove wrote:
Based on what I like to call "the law of player desire dynamics", I see the customers only really wanting kegged by a master. Just like all things crafted the players determine that something is a "norm" and then anything less is undesirable.
Glasses will never get used by mastersbecause expectations will climb that drinks should come in lots of at least 15 or they suck.
I don't like this at all.
I agree with you Sly but you have to think of the cost. If a keg is a multiple of 4, say multiply the cost by 4 as well so you are talking about an 800 use crate of fishak that will cost anywhere from 160k to 200k and not every one has that kinda cash to throw around, but singles will cetainly sell better.
I think it is a really neat idea that is ultimately self destructive 
glasses will be consitered useless and due to the high cost of kegs in crates there will prolly be some pretty stiffpricing competion.
I like the idea sorta...but as many factories as I have pumping out drinks that now have to pump out glasses/kegs whatever blows. I do not want to have to add 5 more factories just to make glasses. Im a chef not a manual laborer or artisan. Im with Fatgit. Theyll reduce the factory time then add the glasses and the whole thing will now take longer and more wasted materials on schematics etc etc... bleh Im not thrilled with this piece of news at all. Oh well guess Ill just have to wait and see. Neat idea...but definitely agitating about now we have to make a whole bunch of extra factory runs to make the same old stuff..they better be reducing our schematic complexity by a lot.
As far as comparing to droids yes that may be true. But you have to remember, these are consumables. Should something consumable take as long as a building a droid? I mean really...does it take me as long to bake a roast as it does to make a car. All I can say is thats one HECK of a roast.
Drenarb wrote:
Perhaps the the schematic could have a place for a small glass, and then you could add metal to "optional" areas to make the glass bigger or to make a Keg. Like you automatically need say 2 mineral to make a small glass, but then if you wanted to make a keg, you could just drag more metal into an optional box for keg. Takes place of one extra step.
It would be like the BE components that we use in our food. Optional.
Takes away the use of a factory to make glasses.... it's contained as an option in the drink schematic.
Only problem would be you wouldn't get 10 experiment points to use on the glass or keg and10 for the drink after the keg is used.
SirVimes wrote:
Gizmarke,
It is not so much to make crafting easier, but it is to make it easier on the developers.
One of the biggest problems we have had is that when we have recipes with inorganic components, it messes up the results when it figures in things like flavoring. Now, it is one thing to go through the foods that have these components and touch up the code to get them to work right...but with drinks, every single drink had an inorganic component in it. What they are doing is taking the inorganic component out of the equation when figuring out results while keeping the mineral requirement in.
The reason why they are not doing this with foods is because not all of them had that mineral requirements. Some of them have other inorganic requirements, like starshine suprise, but the developers are going to work on those individual. With drinks, we had an entire tree with this inorganic requirement, and this is they system they came up with, fixing it in one stroke.
Ah, I didn't think of it like that. If it makes our results better I'm all for it. I'm not sure how they're going to do Tat Sunburn if it is like that though. Gas is inorganic, which always leads to small experimentation boxes unless you're using great reactive gas. (OQ)
Thanks for explaining it SirVimes. Lets hope they're working on an easier crafting process (less click/drag intensive) for the expansion or something. Thanks for the good news SirVimes.
/salute
BlueMorgoth wrote:
As far as people complaining about an extra subcomponent - perhaps you need to re-evaluate your complaints. Try being a DE for a while and then you'll get an idea of complexity. For example, by the time we get to a completely protocol droid, there are 4 levels of subcomponents before the final combine. That's not 4 sub components, but four separate lots of factory runs of subcomponents needing subcomponents needing... etc. That pretty C-3P0 wannabe has taken close to two weeks of factory time before you pick up the final droid. A probot takes 7 separate subcomponents - more than half of those subcomponents depend on subcomponents from other professions (control units x2, Microsensor suit x1, potentially a big pile of GP and EMMs if you fit any module at all, not to mention optional armour components from an AS if you use master-level armour in it). I find the chef stuff refreshingly simple to make in basic complexity terms. Sure the factories take a long time, but what you need to actually make an item is not very much at all in comparison.
Not flaming or anything, but DE is totally different.
Chef is a high turnover, low profit trade as a rule, whereas DE is a lower turnover/higher profit generally.
As a Chef, it takes me a full day to make 2 crates of Master items, which may get me 20-30k profit in total. When I was a DE, I could make that on one sale - I know DE is far from perfect, but you cant compare crafting requirements between the 2
The changes to the whole chef line will make far more foods desirable and I think this will probably offset the problem in terms of income and 'having something to do'. Its quite posible to drop the ball on this - a crate with 1100 fifteen minute buffs will last even a fairly hard core player two months!
I still think that the best buffs should require a chef to serve them (perhapse in a caintina or ranger camp) for full effect. That would remove the 'sandwich vendor' feel that chef has for me and put them more on par with the other buffing classes (though I see this isn't everyone's idea of fun so maybe just a 5% to 15% boost to effect if grouped with a chef).
Hummmm all very interesting. Have they released any of our new schematics yet Sirvimes? I'd really like to see an overview of what they have planned before it gets to test and then rushed out full of bugs in a week.
And as far as the kegs potentially giving us like stacks of 40 fishak, That would be great! Maybe then i could keep some on my vendor cause at 300 cr a charge a crate of 25 kegs of 40 fishak stacks would be 300k! and if we have to up our costs by making double runs of kegs for subcomponents and the final product the prices might get even higher. Yikes.
It does make sense.
Yeah I think this'll be good, minor details notwithstanding.
SirVimes?
/bow2
fatgit wrote:
BlueMorgoth wrote:
As far as people complaining about an extra subcomponent - perhaps you need to re-evaluate your complaints. Try being a DE for a while and then you'll get an idea of complexity. For example, by the time we get to a completely protocol droid, there are 4 levels of subcomponents before the final combine. That's not 4 sub components, but four separate lots of factory runs of subcomponents needing subcomponents needing... etc. That pretty C-3P0 wannabe has taken close to two weeks of factory time before you pick up the final droid. A probot takes 7 separate subcomponents - more than half of those subcomponents depend on subcomponents from other professions (control units x2, Microsensor suit x1, potentially a big pile of GP and EMMs if you fit any module at all, not to mention optional armour components from an AS if you use master-level armour in it). I find the chef stuff refreshingly simple to make in basic complexity terms. Sure the factories take a long time, but what you need to actually make an item is not very much at all in comparison.
Not flaming or anything, but DE is totally different.
Chef is a high turnover, low profit trade as a rule, whereas DE is a lower turnover/higher profit generally.
As a Chef, it takes me a full day to make 2 crates of Master items, which may get me 20-30k profit in total. When I was a DE, I could make that on one sale - I know DE is far from perfect, but you cant compare crafting requirements between the 2
Just wanted to correct this here. Chef has been far, far, far moreprofitable than DE. The margins are enormous when compared to DE, and the goods are consumable, whereas 1 medical R2 lasts forever.
My money is skyrocketing from chef. In3 weeks as a master chefI made more money (5 million) selling foodthan in 4 months of DE (4 million).
Saitek wrote:
I'm making around a million a day to 2 days, but the point is, is that despite their complicated components they aren't having customers breathing down their necks for multiple crates of driods every day.
I think saitek has essentially hit the nail on the head...
more than any other profession (yes even stim b's from doctors/medics) chefs HAVE to deal in bulk...put a shop up in a reasonably busy location, and you're entire weeks factory runs can be gone in hours...perhaps minutes. sure that means profits...but as many chefs have stated, and will likely attest to...profits don't mean a lot when you keep getting customers whining and complaining about an empty vendor.
people are already having a difficult time understanding why they can't even pay a master chef 100k creds to get a garaunteed crate of something like fishak in some cases...and why chefs don't carry crates on them, etc....
although they're reducing complexity (reduced factory time), and more likely than not increasing duration/uses...its still going to be difficult to keep up a well stocked vendor (well stocked meaning having multiple crates of the most popular foods at all times...or close to it).
I think the whole glass/keg thing has potential...and as SirVimes has stated, it all depends on how everything plays out together. if the reduced factory time doesn't at the very least equal the increase from having to use another subcomponent...well I don't see any benefit to it.
another thing to think about is storage...not just storage in houses and such...but storage in factory input hoppers...
think about it...if you add even 1 more component to a BoH run...how many full crates could you make? 2 more components...and wow...not many (2 since 1 optional, and 1 "glass")
SirVimes, could you also bring up factory input hopper size...not output hopper, but the input hopper...I'm sure this could be applied to the other factories and that other professions would be equally as receptive to this...well none more so than ours tho.