Chef Archive
Thread: I love chef, but... well
Jerecki, please don't do that "Quote and berate" technique, it's very frustrating to a person to have someone try to invalidate their argument (which they spend time on too, remember) by virtue of picking apart every sentence. Respond with an idea or as you say, constructive criticism, but don't tell someone their opinion or experience is wrong. It's theirs, and you can disagree, and your server's economy is likely very different from mine or Nikkii's or anyone else's. Please, reread what you wrote and notice the two disparaging reports you are giving on what your purpose is in your discussions here. You are NOT reporting facts here, you are arguing and making opinions. Facts are universal. These opinions of yours, as evidenced that some of us do not share them, are welcome, but in a constructive manner as you preach. Trying to tear down someone else's OPINION piece by piece is not productive, it is a very hurtful and fragmenting thing to do to anyone, regardless of whether they are a three day holochef or Nikkii.
I for one happen to agree with Nikkii on several things, and yourself on several things. One thing that I disagree with, however, is everyone's assertion that their opinion on the revamp is a fact. Some chefs will like this revamp for the expansion of the buffs and the lowered distance between low quality and high quality foods for some of them (drinks that will not go above 1 per stack no matter how heavily experimented or below a few points from their max filling). Others don't. Some like the streamlining of components and the loss of repeat buffs in the tree, some don't. Just as you say, be constructive, and try to work WITH the people you are discussing these things with, NOT against. Talk with each other, not at each other. And save the whales.
sciguyCO wrote:
Jerecki wrote:
The problem w/ most of you is that you haven't done combat in a while, or have never done combat. The combat section of my guild is VERY excited, even when they saw the non-experimented, non-BE comp foods. I think we have quite a few food items that will sell well. Don't panick till we see what can be done w/ these foods w/ all the additives and things. We haven't even had a chance to do half of the stuff we could do w/ good resources and components.
I think that's a point of view that has been missing in the effect discussions, for probably the reason you bring up: not many people do both chef and combat (besides some low-level creature meat/hide harvesting). Of course, if there is a chef who also has an elite combat profession, I'd love to hear his/her input.
Based on the initial reports (Ezran's "Complete list of revamped food" is the bestlist I've seen) what skill bonuses or stat buffslook the most useful for someone in combat? Is it the defense bonuses? I would think Defense vs. Knockdown would be popular with PvPers considering the reported "uberness" of TKA. Accuracy or defense mods? Stat buffs? Since most combat classes have a "core stat" (Health, Action, Mind) that they're specials come from, would the HAM drink trio (Accaragm for Action/Quick/Stam, Garrmorl for Health/Str/Con, and Vassarian Brandy for Mind/Focus/Will) be used to beef up that core stat, or to shore up another stat, depending on stat migration to keep their core competancy? Is an emergency snack of Won-Won (+500 str/con for 5 mins) worth keeping 75% of your food bar empty beforehand and having to wait 34 minutes to digest it (counting from the time of consumption)?
My alt is a Pure pvp oriented combat char. I can assure you that temp boosts to stats like def vs kd are most definately not worth losing significant mind buffs for. I've surveyed my customers on this issue also (90% of which are pure pvp combat chars) and their opinions echo mine in that the skill boosting stuff isnt worth the loss of stat buffs.
Ezran wrote:
ZetPistoleer wrote:
now i dont do PvPs alot so i might not know alot, but on PvE side, those dodge25% blah blah foods won't help at all. i would rather stick with my BoH + Ryshcate combo.
Don't mean to side track you, but 25% bonus to dodge (which I think stacks with defensive aquity) mean 25% less hits. That equates to a 25% armor (As long as whatever you're attacking doesn't kill you in 1 hit)
After the patch you can take BoH, this, and something else to make you even more TK invinsible.
As far as class interdependancy: BE additives are not required, and Casks/Barrels are not required. There is no enforced class interdependancy.
25% dodge does not mean you will get hit 25% less. Just means should you get hit your dodge bonues is boosted by 25%. Meaning if your dodge skill is 100 it would become 125 for the duration of the food. The problem with this is Dodge is hard capped at 105.
These buffs were incredibly poorly thought out. They arent even unique stat buffs that you could not get elsewhere.
I too think she takes the game too seriously, and if I were as thin-skinned as her, I would take offense at her bragging about how many factories she keeps running non-stop and how she actually *DOES* make the BEST food on her server...blah, blah, blah. Her implication could easily be taken (by a thin-skinned, easily riled person) that every other Chef that does not meet or exceed (gasp!) her level of production suxxors. Look up L33t Chef in the SWG Compendium and you'll see a pix of her. I make it a point not to talk to people like this, as it does NO GOOD, they are *always* right, and everyone else is *always* wrong. See, the number of factories running non-stop is directly proportional to the veracity of statements made. 
I run up to 3 factories, but usually I only have 1 up since I also have a city and resource biz to run. I state this so that everyone will know how little my words mean on the issues. I think the direction we are going in is good, and I hope the Devs are able to fix up the top issues we have before it goes live. Stomach decay, Artisan food being pound-for-pound better than Chef food, stomach decay, containers affecting quantities in a more realistic manner, stomach decay (did I say this already?), and better by FAR skill mods. I look forward to having a wide variety of stuff to make that people will want. We will have a couple top-sellers, of course, and those capable of mass-producing them (say, with 14 factories running non-stop?) will do so, but that will leave the rest of us mortals stuff to sell. We could become known as the "Oddities" Chef's. These "lesser" Chefs will make the "Best" food because they will be able to use BE components in all the food they make, while the conglomerate gods will just make massive quantities of lesser foods. But it will be interesting to see a goddess trying to buy 10k BE components each day. Basically all the BE's on the server will become totally devoted to making her stuff, and all the Scouts in the game will sell only to BE, and everyone else can go suck eggs. Well, it doesn't seem likely. /shrug It will be an interesting time for sure!
sciguyCO wrote: I think that's a point of view that has been missing in the effect discussions, for probably the reason you bring up: not many people do both chef and combat (besides some low-level creature meat/hide harvesting). Of course, if there is a chef who also has an elite combat profession, I'd love to hear his/her input.
I run two characters; my main is a master pistoleer/smuggler. My alt is my master chef, though I spend far more time working - I mean, playing - the chef, to run her business and keep my guild supplied. I nearly always play a baker at some point in every game I play, from UO to AC to EQ. But, I have been nothing but disappointed in the changes and am considering dropping the chef having reviewed the revamp. All I see is a list of foods and drinks that are vaguely useful and aren't worth the cost to the customer or the time to me. And unlike now, there aren't even the Big Five super popular things to make up for the junk. But all Verant has to do is look at at how many COMBAT people are stocking up on the old foods. I had almost a million creds in Fishak sales yesterday from the leader of the largest rebel PVP group on my server. That tells me something.
EASY everybody! Have a custard cream.
One thing that has just occurred is that having so many different "Defense vs State" foods seem a little OTT. I'd be happy if some of these were condensed into a single "Defense vs A, B & C" item. Failing that, lower fillings and especially better effect percentages would really help these be more useful.
Nikkii has been posting interesting and well considered posts to these forums for a quite a while.
I've always paid close attention to what she has to say.
Whether it comes off like a brag or not, she has a lot of experience; and that fact,augmented by frustration, felt by many of us, at the inadequecy of the unvamp, might have made her manner uncharacteristically over the top. All the same, she is basically right in her assesment of what has happened here.
As for 'taking the game too seriously.' How many hours a week are any ofus playing? If it is more thanit takes to watch the new episode of That 70s Show- and I guarantee thatit is - then it is something you are dedicating a fair portion of your life to - and therefore warrants some emotional involvement.
Hero
~
But I know that shes been getting experimentation clothing items. Jerecki said:
The problem w/ most of you is that you haven't done combat in a while, or have never done combat.
sciguy said:
Of course, if there is a chef who also has an elite combat profession, I'd love to hear his/her input.
Jerecki said:
Have you even talked to any combat people recently?
Ok, Chef/Commando here. Maybe I can help. I'm more experienced at the commando end of my template, so take this however you like.
All of the skill mods are simply too small to bother. While knockdown/dizzy is incredibly popular and powerful in PvP, a +10 to those defenses is virtually worthless. Many of today's PvP templates stack huge defense numbers and they can still be dizzied and knocked down. Defense vs. stun and/or blind are even bigger jokes, since those states don't matter much anyway. +10 to accuracy? Laughable. I could see a couple of these being used if you were taking on a PvE fight you really shouldn't be... 15 dodge is better than none, and a 25% damage reduction for 20+ hits isn't terrible either. If those two food were in my pack, I'd eat them before charging into a pack of rancors. Here's the rub though:
they wouldn't be in my backpack
Allow me to explain. I was trying to find a use for the new Ormachek recipe, and I hit on something. A friend of mine if grinding BH investigation xp right now, and he absolutely loathes it. It's slow, it's boring, it's buggy, it's driving him mad. So, I asked him if he thought BHs might be a good market for a 4% xp bonus, and he did a little math. He has 25ish mission to go before he's done. A 4% bonus would save him the time of doing one mission. Since each mission averages 30 minutes, he said "sure, give me some and I'll eat it". You see, he's used to me giving him whatever I think he could use, he doesn't buy food. I replied, "no, no, no. Go find a chef vendor. Revisit it a couple times till it happens to be stocked, or wait for the chef to come online and place a custom order. Spend 20k on the food. Remember to eat it before each kill. Forego whatever other buff food you might normally eat (ha!). Now is it worth saving yourself that one mission?" His response:
!@#$ that.
And that is the problem. It's not that these new food aren't useful, it's that for the most part they aren't worth the trouble or expense of procuring. Not for combat. As a combat char, I only see one item that I'd use on an everyday basis (Vasarian Brandy), and one I'd use in an emergency (Blue Milk). With them both being drinks and the limited supply of milk, I'll probably only drink the brandy and sell what milk I manage to make at an unreasonable markup to PvPers. I can see Vercupti being temporarily handy for lowbie CHs. Crafters will consume Port en masse. Combined with doc buffs, Vagnerian Canape will be good armor grease (our current offerings are better for this and don't require a doctor though).
All in all, consider this combat char nonplussed.
Ezran said:
Don't mean to side track you, but 25% bonus to dodge (which I think stacks with defensive aquity) mean 25% less hits
I'd love to see a Developer confirm that, because I've had +20 to dodge and never dodged anywhere near 20% of incoming attacks. It's not a straight percentage, in my experience.
The non-combat bonuses are also too small to matter. Once you have exploration I, +10 terrain negotiation is barely noticable, and the food won't help you unless you have terrain negotiation I. Same situation applies to mask scent, survey, harvesting, etc. The bonuses are too small to be worth the bother.