Chef Archive

Thread: I love chef, but... well

Jerecki
Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:54 am
#40

I too have 12 experimentation points, and I too have most of the best resources to ever spawn on my server. I lead a group of 3 chefs (2 more grinding) in my guild to make a gropup effort to pool resources (most of which I donated) so that we could Always be stocked. But thats not the point, thats not what this thread is about.

Where do you see that holochefs will be able to make food as good as someone w/ good resources and BE components? I've seen exactly the opposite so far.

Also: There won't be hologrinders in a couple months.



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Letting non-PvPers kill factioned NPC's without consequences will prove disasterous! Report immediately to the JTLS forums and express your opinion! Six or Seven people are deciding the future of the expansion, let your opinion be heard!
Jerecki
Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:57 am
#41






Ankor wrote:

Jerecki said:
The problem w/ most of you is that you haven't done combat in a while, or have never done combat.



sciguy said:
Of course, if there is a chef who also has an elite combat profession, I'd love to hear his/her input.


Jerecki said:
Have you even talked to any combat people recently?


Ok, Chef/Commando here. Maybe I can help. I'm more experienced at the commando end of my template, so take this however you like.

All of the skill mods are simply too small to bother. While knockdown/dizzy is incredibly popular and powerful in PvP, a +10 to those defenses is virtually worthless. Many of today's PvP templates stack huge defense numbers and they can still be dizzied and knocked down. Defense vs. stun and/or blind are even bigger jokes, since those states don't matter much anyway. +10 to accuracy? Laughable. I could see a couple of these being used if you were taking on a PvE fight you really shouldn't be... 15 dodge is better than none, and a 25% damage reduction for 20+ hits isn't terrible either. If those two food were in my pack, I'd eat them before charging into a pack of rancors. Here's the rub though:

they wouldn't be in my backpack

Allow me to explain. I was trying to find a use for the new Ormachek recipe, and I hit on something. A friend of mine if grinding BH investigation xp right now, and he absolutely loathes it. It's slow, it's boring, it's buggy, it's driving him mad. So, I asked him if he thought BHs might be a good market for a 4% xp bonus, and he did a little math. He has 25ish mission to go before he's done. A 4% bonus would save him the time of doing one mission. Since each mission averages 30 minutes, he said "sure, give me some and I'll eat it". You see, he's used to me giving him whatever I think he could use, he doesn't buy food. I replied, "no, no, no. Go find a chef vendor. Revisit it a couple times till it happens to be stocked, or wait for the chef to come online and place a custom order. Spend 20k on the food. Remember to eat it before each kill. Forego whatever other buff food you might normally eat (ha!). Now is it worth saving yourself that one mission?" His response:

!@#$ that.

And that is the problem. It's not that these new food aren't useful, it's that for the most part they aren't worth the trouble or expense of procuring. Not for combat. As a combat char, I only see one item that I'd use on an everyday basis (Vasarian Brandy), and one I'd use in an emergency (Blue Milk). With them both being drinks and the limited supply of milk, I'll probably only drink the brandy and sell what milk I manage to make at an unreasonable markup to PvPers. I can see Vercupti being temporarily handy for lowbie CHs. Crafters will consume Port en masse. Combined with doc buffs, Vagnerian Canape will be good armor grease (our current offerings are better for this and don't require a doctor though).

All in all, consider this combat char nonplussed.


Ezran said:
Don't mean to side track you, but 25% bonus to dodge (which I think stacks with defensive aquity) mean 25% less hits


I'd love to see a Developer confirm that, because I've had +20 to dodge and never dodged anywhere near 20% of incoming attacks. It's not a straight percentage, in my experience.

The non-combat bonuses are also too small to matter. Once you have exploration I, +10 terrain negotiation is barely noticable, and the food won't help you unless you have terrain negotiation I. Same situation applies to mask scent, survey, harvesting, etc. The bonuses are too small to be worth the bother.





Have you seen Vimes post about BE components added?



--------------------------------------------------------------
Letting non-PvPers kill factioned NPC's without consequences will prove disasterous! Report immediately to the JTLS forums and express your opinion! Six or Seven people are deciding the future of the expansion, let your opinion be heard!
DashZero
Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:03 pm
#42

Look at the exp bonus food. Its 4% no matter what. Its 1 use no matter what. Its filling didnt move. Experimentation results were able to make it last 1 round longer.


Now how are your going bonus experimentation points and big supply of resources going to make this food better than someone that just grinded out chef in 2 days?


Now what happens if we insert a BE filling? Well I dont know the answer to this in this specific food. But what I do know is that if different BE fillings effect this food differently (which they do in other foods), then the BE will have much more control over the properties of what we make than we do. Why in the world should a BE be better at customizing food than a chef?


And I am so glad hologrinders will be gone..that has to have been the worst idea ever



Nikkii Nightstrider - Eat, Drink and Be Merry!
Eat at Nikkii's - Fine Foods and Fashions
Nabubu (-1400, -4030)
Coronet (524,-5244)
DashZero
Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:08 pm
#43

they also use domestic meat



Nikkii Nightstrider - Eat, Drink and Be Merry!
Eat at Nikkii's - Fine Foods and Fashions
Nabubu (-1400, -4030)
Coronet (524,-5244)
DashZero
Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:10 pm
#44

which in turn brings us back to my original arguement. BEs will not be able to keep up with demand (unless are some serious changes made). For that reason alone, chef food should be good on its own with additives making it better. Not usable only if it has an additive in it. (IE not worth it)



Nikkii Nightstrider - Eat, Drink and Be Merry!
Eat at Nikkii's - Fine Foods and Fashions
Nabubu (-1400, -4030)
Coronet (524,-5244)
Ankor
Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:15 pm
#45

Jerecki, yes I saw his post. IF the BEs can keep up with demand and IF the cost is reasonable, BE components would turn this whole revamp into a wonderful patch for Chefs. Now, you tell me... how likely do you think it is that additives will be cheap and plentiful?



ingame: Ankor Hunter, 12 point Master Chef
Winner of Iron Chef Bria contest
DMD Shop - food, weapons, armor, medical supplies
588, 0, 2955 on Tatooine (just outside Mos Entha)
DashZero
Tue Jan 27, 2004 12:25 pm
#46

In *my* ideal world. I like how be components work now (tho they need improving). What I mean is. Say you are a customer. You have unlimited amount of credits (we are going to ignore competition because thats not what this is about). You come into my shop and you see BE enhanced Pate and you see normal Pate. You obviously buy the BE pate because it is better.


Now lets say you come into my shop and you only find normal pate. (This is the critical point) Do you still buy the pate being that its the only one available? Currently the answer to that is yes, you do because the pate is still great food altho it could be better.


My concern is that everyone is looking to the BE additive to make our food up to the level we find acceptable as chefs. IMO, additives should make food surpass that level not be the thing to make food good enough to be consumed. So what happens in the above second choice if our food contains no additive (and there is no where else to go)? Is the food worth purchasing to the customer in its own form? Or is it not worthy of purchasing/using because it didnt have the "optional" component and is therefore not good enough?



Nikkii Nightstrider - Eat, Drink and Be Merry!
Eat at Nikkii's - Fine Foods and Fashions
Nabubu (-1400, -4030)
Coronet (524,-5244)
Jerecki
Tue Jan 27, 2004 7:48 pm
#47

If you do what I do now (make the customer gather the meat) I think it would be possible on an order to order basis. If they bring more than enough for what they need, they get the crate(s) free.



--------------------------------------------------------------
Letting non-PvPers kill factioned NPC's without consequences will prove disasterous! Report immediately to the JTLS forums and express your opinion! Six or Seven people are deciding the future of the expansion, let your opinion be heard!
GeminiMoon
Tue Jan 27, 2004 10:21 pm
#48

I was excited at first that they were re-vamping Chef. I planned on going Chef eventually, yet once they got into specifics (the "advantages" to the buffs), I was disapointed, and I'm no longer interested in the profession.


I'm a doctor, so Herb and Avian meat are key to my success, and take up a lot of my time to get them myself. I don't see the point of doing chef if I'm going to half-a$$ it and use standard components (then again I don't know how much of a differnce it will make, yet I assume it would be like the advanced components for the other professions, which do make a substancial difference in product quality).


Their whole plan to make professions intertwine with each other is for the power gamer. Some people can only play a few days a week, and making connection with people can be hard, let alone with the scarce BE's.


I'd rather keep chef as it is. With its significant mind buffs gone now, the only thing thatI can see selling is the +crafting experience mod(or something to that effect). Other than that, the only good thing to come from this is the ability to milk herbivores.





Moonlight's Kitchen
STC, Naboo /waypoint -3780 4916
In-game Name: Claire
What's in stock?


NikkiT
Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:04 am
#49






GeminiMoon wrote:

Their whole plan to make professions intertwine with each other is for the power gamer. Some people can only play a few days a week, and making connection with people can be hard, let alone with the scarce BE's.




No, the whole plan to make professions intertwine is what makes the difference between a single player game and a multi-player game.


Yes, the scarce supply of creature resources might become a problem, and as a BE/Chef I probably won't be able to supply anyone but myself with BE tissues. That's why the guild I'm in is recruiting more rangers and scouts right now so I can once again produce more tissues than I use up myself.


And you don't have to powergame to make contacts, really. Many people in my guild don't play more than perhaps 10 hours a week, and they still support us and are supported by us. Ask around if there are any crafting guilds on your server, and I'm sure you'll find suppliers.




--
Noctew Wo-o, Medic (Combat Med / Carbineer) on Gorath
Di'ew Wo-o, Melee Officer (Chef / Fencer) on Gorath
"I tend to agree that it makes little sense to damage the experience for current customers for the sake of improving it for the many." (Raph Koster)
Jerecki
Wed Jan 28, 2004 5:31 am
#50

Also, I think we'll see a spike in BE's and Rangers when people see how much money they can make off of us. I've got a couple people in my guild making the transition now so they can help me out. Nikkits also correct in saying that this game is all about cooperation, thats why it's multiplayer.



--------------------------------------------------------------
Letting non-PvPers kill factioned NPC's without consequences will prove disasterous! Report immediately to the JTLS forums and express your opinion! Six or Seven people are deciding the future of the expansion, let your opinion be heard!
OberonMyx
Wed Jan 28, 2004 7:14 am
#51






sciguyCO wrote:





Jerecki wrote:
The problem w/ most of you is that you haven't done combat in a while, or have never done combat. The combat section of my guild is VERY excited, even when they saw the non-experimented, non-BE comp foods. I think we have quite a few food items that will sell well. Don't panick till we see what can be done w/ these foods w/ all the additives and things. We haven't even had a chance to do half of the stuff we could do w/ good resources and components.





I think that's a point of view that has been missing in the effect discussions, for probably the reason you bring up: not many people do both chef and combat (besides some low-level creature meat/hide harvesting). Of course, if there is a chef who also has an elite combat profession, I'd love to hear his/her input.


As a near Master Pistoleer, ex Near Smuggler, TKM, and ex-Master COmmando, i have seen chef from both sides. I still fight almost everyday, still run missions, so coming from a combat perspective, yes...i do like som of the proposed changes. But honestly, aside from the novelty effect of some items, i would prefer the good stat buffing effect (the 2veghash/1 BoH combo needed to put on a fullsuit of crappily made, extremly bulky composite) and the mind/focus effects of glucose Pated, and Fishak. As a combatant, it is hard to find a good dancer and a good msician to buff you, or to be willing to spend the eight or so minutes. As a combtant, i have the ability to heal my action and health (novice medic for that) but when it comes to mind, without the curretn chef buffs, im screwed, excpt for using Muon. As a pvp'er and a combat heavy, i currently use a combination of Fishak, Muon Gold, doctor Buffs, and glucose pate. This gives me ways to both heal my mind and eliminate the downer of muon gold. This is what people want. This, as a combatant is what i want. A way to buff and heal the one stat that can't be heald by medicine. Now, no, as a chef, i don't want to be resignedto factory runs of Pate and Fishak, but as a combatant, Pate and Fishak and Muon gold are what i seek, since i can get a doctors buff to handle the rest for 2 hours. Honestly, I, as a combatant, would take a mind heal over any of the new changes. I have 80 percnt resist composite armour, so what do i care about reducing damage for three to thirty hits for when my armor does that? I have no pets, so what do i care about food that buffs there already higher than mine HAMs? What i want, as a combatant, is mind healing, hence the Fishak being the buig seller, hence the market for chef drying up after it's gone. The rest, the plus xxpercent xp and the minus 44 second incap time (if im incapped near a deathblower, you think they're gonna take even 5 seconds to slay me?) and all that other stuff is all fine and dandy, every now and again, as novelty items, but wht i want, as a combatant, is something to heal tha mind, heal it alot, like fishak and glucose pate do.



Oberon


Master Chef, 3344 Pistoleer, ex master Fishak drinking Commando





Twas' brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe. All mimsy were the borogroves and the mome raths outgrabe.

Oberon/Xian', retired, writing poetry.
deltabob00
Wed Jan 28, 2004 10:05 am
#52






Nikii_Nightstrider wrote:

....

Why in the world should a BE be better at customizing food than a chef?

....





Why should a BE be better at customizing clothing? Clothes are completely useless skins without BE enhancements.


BEs are like the company BASF - they have the tag line something to the effect of "We don't make the things you use every day - we make the things you use every day better"


Also, I have a slightly different perspective because I'm coming in from Droid Engineer, where we require more components (both number and type) from other professions than any other profession. One of my items can require up to 26 components from other professions (mostly Master Artisan).





The ferret says, "Dook dook."
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