Chef Archive

Thread: Vegeparsine/Elshandruu tested

RegenEdnolb
Sun Sep 18, 2005 2:24 pm
#27




Here's my testing in a PVP duel.


One thing that seems to be true : Re-equip your weapon after eating defense foods! Otherwise the food doesnt work!




Damage test


Defense: A player not wearing any armor,and a basic ranged defense of 248.
* Elshandruu Pica Thundercloud (+100 Ranged Defense).

* Duelist Stand, BH Skill. (+250 Defense).


Offense: A player with +200 Accuracy when firing:

A Carbine with 368-822dmg.

Bounty Hunters Critical shot.


Off.Accuracy = 200

Ranged Def.(no food / or duelist stand)= 248

Damage = 750



Off. Accuracy= 200

Ranged Def. = 248 + Duelist = 498

Damage = 649



Off. Accuracy= 200

Ranged Def. = 248 + Duelist + Thundercloud = 598

Damage = 609



I've also testedcrispic and deuterium pyro (both enhance ranged accuracy), and they both seem to work very nice. I dont know the exact rules, but I know that much is about the difference between your oponents accuracy and your defense.

If for example someone is getting shot and takes 300 damage, and he decided to eat some food wich would raise his ranged defense with +100, then the shots after that he will take less damage. (Re-equip your weapon ofcourse)

But if his openent would use a drink that raises his accuracy with +100,then the damage you would get per shot would be right back to 300, because the difference betweenhis accuracy and your defense is exactly the same as before!






Another Extended Test



Defense: A player not wearing any armor,and a basic ranged defense of 248.
* Elshandruu Pica Thundercloud (+100 Ranged Defense).

* Duelist Stand, BH Skill. (+250 Defense).

* Pikatta Pie (+52 dodge).

* Vayerblock (+24.6 block)



Offense: A player with +200 Accuracy when firing:

A Carbine with 269-539 + 50 elemental heat dmg.

Bounty Hunters Critical shot.


For every test the accuracy of the attacker was always +200.


Ranged defense =(just basic defense) 248

Dmg/Elemental per shot: 276 / 50 dmg


Shots fired: 250.

% missed: +- 13%



Ranged defense = 248 + Duelist Stand = 498

Dmg/Elemental per shot: 245 / 50 dmg


Shots fired: 150

% missed: +- 19%




Ranged defense = 248 + Duelist Stand= 498

Pikatta Pie +52 dodge

Dmg/Elemental per shot: 238 / 50 dmg


Shots fired: 250

% missed: +- 23%




Ranged defense = 248 + Duelist Stand +Thundercloud= 598

Pikatta Pie +52 dodge

Dmg/Elemental per shot: 226 / 50 dmg


Shots fired: 250

% missed: +- 30%




Ranged defense = 248 + Duelist Stand +Thundercloud 598

Vayerblock +24.6 block

Dmg/Elemental per shot 232 / 50 dmg


Shots fired: 250

% missed: +- 25%

% blocked: 0%

(kinda weird, I expected 10% of the shots to be blocked for 50% dmg... thats what I got when I tested it agains creatures I think, but here it doesnt seem to do anything)


My conclusions...(for PvP fighting)


-Vayerblock doesnt seem to do anything in PvP.

-Elshandruu Pica Thundercloud works just fine. Just dont forget to re-equip your weapon.

-Elemental dmg is not affected by Accurcy or Defense. When you get hit, your armor has to deal with the full elemental damage.

-Pikatta Pie slightly mitigates dmg, and perhaps givesa few % extra misses, im not too convinced that its worth putting in your stomach though. Dont know if it does more on jedi players...


The following things are prob affected by other mods aswell.

-When your defense is about 400 higher than your opponents accuracy, about 25% of the shots he fires will miss.

-When your defense is about 40 higher than your opponents accuracy, about 13% of the shots he fires will miss.

Maybe nice to do some more testing on how accuracy & defense relate to how many times a shot misses.


Oh,,.. one last thing. Isuspect that the melee defense food will work in the same way. It doesnt. Like said by someone else before, vegaparsine only works when you DONT have your weapon equiped.. how nice .. maybe the miss rate will be higher when you use that.. but I havent tested that really



I might have missed something, but I don't feel like givingthis any more of my time now really (hehe),


Regen Ednolb

Message Edited by RegenEdnolb on 09-18-2005 05:33 PM

Message Edited by RegenEdnolb on 09-18-2005 06:31 PM

Barafu
Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:28 pm
#28
This is very excellent testing. Thank you for your time. Your finding about vegeparsine only working when you don't have a weapon equiped is in agreement with my tests which are found here (you can find more information about the specifics how damage works in the links in that thread). Your testing of thundercloud is well documented and good news.

Hopefully, the devs are reading this thread and can work on getting vegeparsine fixed.



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Nicka
Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:57 pm
#29

This is my testing of Pica Thundercloud. This test is to basicly verify that re-equipting your weapon do or do not work.




Food tested:

Elshandruu Pica Thundercloud +100 Range Defence


Offence: Nicka (Bounty Hunter/Carbineer)

Carbine

225 Accuracy

[range character: will be doing the damage]


Defence: Becka (Jedi)

Saber

150 (base) defence

[melee character: will be using Pica Thundercloud]



Result:


{{ No Foods }}

Damage - 291

Hits/ Miss - 101 / 43

% of Missed - 42 %


{{ Pica Thundercloud }}


Damage - 291

Hits/ Miss -93 / 47

% of Missed - 50 %


{{ Pica Thundercloud + Re-equipting weapon }} Test 1


Damage - 291

Hits/ Miss -120 / 47

% of Missed - 39 %


{{ Pica Thundercloud + Re-equipting weapon }} Test 2


Damage - 291

Hits/ Miss - 128 / 46

% of Missed - 35 %



Note that there does not appear to be any damage reduction at all after drinking Pica. Damage output stayed at 291


There does appear to be a slight increase in the chance for the defender to dodge after drinking Pica (only when re-equipting weapon) anywhere from 3-7% in this test.


The odd result stems from right after drinking the pica without re-equipting the weapon.. there wasan increase to getting hit by8%. This was a messed up result that had me amused. This might be just a run of good luck on the attacker's part, will need to do more test at a longer duration it seems to be more certain.


My testing contradict those of Regen as it shows that there seems to be NO damage reduction, only a slight chance to miss. I did not use any other drink/food/state/armor in this test.




33 Elissa 44 . 33 Becka 44 . 33 Josephine 44
____________________________________________________________
=CKA= Industries | New Vengeance, Lok

RegenEdnolb
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:15 am
#30

My new theory is that:
Thundercloud adds +100 to your defenses only when you are equiped with a ranged weapon.
Vegaparsine adds +100 to your defenses ONLY when you have a melee weapon equiped (note: Your hands are MELEE, so no weapon = Vegaparsine works!! makes kinda sense actually)


Maybe we are misunderstanding the whole idea of Melee andRanged defense??
Perhaps Melee Defense simply says your defense is xxx when you have a melee weapon equiped (if your are attacked with melee or ranged weapon doesnt matter, you just have xxx defense. period).. and then same goes for Ranged defense..


This is just a thought, Ill do some more testing when I have time....

Orim
Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:17 am
#31
I did some more testing with Regen.
Thundercloud only seems to make a very small difference in damage.
I might have missed a bit more but I'm not sure really.
More info comming soon I hope.




:::::: Orim ::::::
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:::::: Oroku Brightlight ::::::
The Flying Chef
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RegenEdnolb
Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:05 am
#32







I've done some more quick testing of Vegaparsine and Thundercloud.


Vegaparsine (+100 Melee defense)
Elshandruu Pica Thundercloud (+100 Ranged defense)


-Offense: Someone with 236 accuracy when shooting with ranged shot (using a rifle)
-Defense: Someone withbase defense of: 169 melee and 244 ranged defense.


The following tests are to find out when Vegaparsine/Elshandruu pica thundercloud actually work...


Defense: 169 melee 244 ranged
Defender has NO weapon equiped
Damage: 744


Defense: 240 melee 315 ranged
Defender has rangedweapon equiped
Damage: 709


Defense: 269 melee 244 ranged (used +100MD vegaparsine)
Defender has NO weapon equiped
Damage: 718


Defense: 340 melee 315 ranged (used +100MD vegaparsine)
Defender has ranged weapon equiped
Damage: 709


Defense: 269 melee 344 ranged (used +100MD vegaparsine AND +100RD Thundercloud)
Defender has NO weapon equiped
Damage: 718


Defense: 340 melee 415 ranged (used +100MD vegaparsine AND +100RD Thundercloud)
Defender has ranged weapon equiped
Damage: 683


The above numbers show that my assumption about how melee and ranged defense work seem to be true. I've highlitedtheDamages and the corresponding defenses.I've alsotested this briefly against a Jedi yesterday (he's melee), and after I took my ranged defense drink, he hit me for less dmg (after re-equiping my rifle ofcourse. Note I havent tested this for an extended period of time against a melee character, but I have no reason te believe its working any different).


So it seems to be that:
- Melee defense means your defense valueagainst RangedAND Melee attacks when you have a melee weapon equiped (your hands are also melee)
- Ranged defense mean your defense value against RangedAND Melee attacks only when you have a ranged weapon equiped (You must re-equip your weapon after you used ranged defense food!!)


Thats why Thundercloud doesnt work for a jedi Nicka. Because he equips a Melee weapon. He should infact use Vegeparsine


grr.. i hope not all jedi are going to use this... .. oh god, what have I done... ..
hmm.. How about all those jedi out there who used Ranged Defense attachments thinking that they have higher defense AGAINST ranged professions, where as they should have used Melee Defense attachments (this makes me feel a bit better lol )


Regen Ednolb


Message Edited by RegenEdnolb on 09-19-2005 07:11 AM


EDIT:
I've done some simple testing with Clothing and Armor with Ranged / Melee defense mods. It seems to work exactly the same as I described above!


If you have above +25 on some skill in attachments on your suit, it will count as +25 to that mod. I tested this by using some clothes that would give me +46 in ranged defense. Altough the character screen might say you have a higher ranged defense, it actually has the exact same result as using +25 in attachments!When I had a +21 ranged defensemod on my cloths, it showed an increase in dmg, but +46 = +25)

Message Edited by RegenEdnolb on 09-21-2005 07:47 AM

RegenEdnolb
Mon Sep 19, 2005 3:14 am
#33

One more thing to not forget; damage reduction using defense food against jedi is substantially lower than against any other profession. This prob can be explained by saying that the difference between min and max dmg values of lightsabers is very small;

- High advantagefor the defender(comparing off. accuracy with def. defense) makes the dmg go towards the min dmg value of the weapon.

- A high advangtageforthe attacker (comparing off. accuracy with def. defense) makes the dmg go towards the max dmg value of the weapon.


However, I see no reason to believe that the % of misses a jedi gets when attacking youWONT go up as expected. So its prob still very handy to use Ranged Defense food against Jedi (you being a ranged character ofcourse)
Jorvas
Mon Sep 19, 2005 6:24 am
#34

Good Stuff Regen!


I´ll try this later tonight





Many...many down, lots to go...
Alla Jedi Suger Fett...
Nicka
Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:08 am
#35
Regen you have finally figured out the mystery of defence bonus.

It does appear that you are right.


For a melee character the food (vegeparsine) needs to be used, against both Melee and ranged oponents.

For a ranged character the drink (pica thundercloud) needs to be used against both ranged and melee oponents.


And un-equipping and re-equipping needs to be done for the defence bonuse to kick in.


/tiphat Regen




33 Elissa 44 . 33 Becka 44 . 33 Josephine 44
____________________________________________________________
=CKA= Industries | New Vengeance, Lok

KeeferKman
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:02 am
#36
All I can say: Holy f*ken crap! This is huge





No Gaming Enjoyment
Orim
Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:33 am
#37
Nice work Regen. You did one hell of a job!
We should test the Vegeparsine tonight
I'm very curious now




:::::: Orim ::::::
Light Twi' Jedi

:::::: Oroku Brightlight ::::::
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Sodan-droiddreamer
Mon Sep 19, 2005 11:18 am
#38
This is very helpful info. What about Vayerbok? Does it work? Or is it borked?



Sodan Droiddreamer (GEGN)
Sodan's Exotic Droidgarten - In Bohemian Grove (Geigen Shuttle), Tatooine (6156 7275)
Iwof
Tue Sep 20, 2005 9:39 am
#39




Nicka wrote:

Regen you have finally figured out the mystery of defence bonus.

It does appear that you are right.


For a melee character the food (vegeparsine) needs to be used, against both Melee and ranged oponents.

For a ranged character the drink (pica thundercloud) needs to be used against both ranged and melee oponents.


And un-equipping and re-equipping needs to be done for the defence bonuse to kick in.


/tiphat Regen




What about TKM if I don't use a weapon at all, just my bare hands? Do I need to equip the VK then unequip? hmmm...


And by the way excellent work, this is the kind of stuff we have been looking for.





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