Chef Archive

Thread: Pricing and why I charge 75K for BIO-enhanced Brandy

Syke
Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:51 pm
#27

Cragar, I sell a BE almost identical to yours and charge 175k (depends on your server too). I sell an 18 use 220 buff brandy (similar to yours) for 80k (so your's could theoretically go for 200-225k). not sure how well that would go over.

As for the whole selling it for this or that...we've discussed this nonsense before. There are three simple facts at work here...


crafter costs (houses, factories, vendors, rental fees, advertising, demos, marketing, and then buying or harvesting resources and BE materials)


market demand (BE brandy isn't in high demand any more on my server, I only sell a handful of crates a week 4-5 a day whereas I sold 20+ crates of fishak a day pre-revamp -- whole different ballgame now)


our value as business people, crafters, and players...this is a game, but our only real reward as a crafter is cash. Sure its fun to see people get excited trying something new and its fun to make stuff...but that can only carry you so far.



----------------------------------------------------
Syk'e Auttic Master Chef & Author - Formerly Syke Auttic Transcendent Emarr

FOOD: 60, -5524 (south of Coronet)
FOOD and MEDS: Celmar (6407, -1831 & 6596, -1777)
Iplyvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:16 pm
#28

GalinHawk,


I appreciate your thought out response to all of this, and have considered it all closely. But some assumptions you make are incorrect, let me clarify:


1. I am not in this to be the richest chef in the galaxy


2. I don't believe all professions must earh the same amount. So waht if combat can make 97 million?? In some ways you are saying "Hey, they got a lot of money, so why NOT charge them through the nose?" hehe. I just don't agree with that. It's not really a sound business practice to set your prices based on your customer's wealth - well ok maybe it is sound if all you want is to be rich, but the ethics are definately questionable. My son doesn't sit outside selling lemonade on a hot day and base his price on your ability to pay... LOL


3. I believe that if something costs me X then my price is 2X. Your cost analysis is off, because you assume much higher prices. I am in business. Part of that business is to keep the cost low. It is fun for me to do this. I gave up a lot of neat things in order to master AND be able to harvest. I am NOT a BE either, but I spent several weeks without BIO foods until I could find a BE willing to sell me schematics. They are out there. Quit paying 50K/crate. It works for them because they no longer have to find the resources and that is valuable to some (not all).


4. Yes, I feel pricing food higher because SOME players have 87 million, is hurting the game. You are naive in thinking that THAT is normal. Walk around and talk to hundreds of players, and you will find many have never even held a million dollars. Not just newbies either. Some people measure their success in this game in other ways than just the amount of credits they have.


5. I love my customers and treat them well, but they don't drive my business. They respond to my store because I LOVE what I am doing. If someone wants to complain because I have no Brandy, then so be it. I feel no compulsion to run out and make some immediately. I even refuse special orders.


6. In the last three days, I have had 1 day with BIO Brandy. Sold 10 cases, so that is 750K. My total sales for those 3 days is 3.2 million. I just don't buy that brandy is ALL people think about. In fact, my regular non-BIO brandy sold 10 times while the BIO was still there. Players make choices - we should embrace them.


7. To re-state, if it cost me 150K to make the brandy (and maybe it does to some), I would charge 300K. But it doesn't. It costs me roughly 36K to make it. So I get about $39K in profit when it sells. Do I think that is worth all my 'hard' effort and time?? YOU BET I DO!!!!



Finally, I can't say I'm too surprised by the reaction I've gotten over this. I was hoping there might have been a rally cry or something, but it was a high hope and not an expectation. The fact that you and so many others still feel it is out of line just tells me WHY the economy is so messed up. The viscious circle of paying too much for trim, resources, BE Tissues, etc. continues.


CHallenge yourself to reduce your costs. Work out deals with partners. Get some skills to harv at 60 cents what you are now paying 3-5cpu for.


--------

In all the arguments that you and others have posted - in all the reasoning you have stated- not ONE of you have said how much fun you are haiving being a chef. Thankfully, there are a few chefs who are having a blast with it all and enjoying the new foods!!


imagine that? I'm having a blast AND I just made 3 million credits??? Don't tell me it's a charity and that my prices are hurting anything. I am happy, my customers are happy, and THAT is what matters.


Play Hard. Have Fun.


Iplyvi








Iplyvi Olis
Master Architect, Chef & Artisan
The Jungle Spice Cafe' and ArchTech Designs
1010 -6090 Dantooine, Ahazi
only 600m from the agro outpost
(and as Katyryyhn: Master Heavy Swordsman & Brawler)
Iplyvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 2:21 pm
#29

Hi Yashasghost,

I didn't mean to imply that I have BE, I do not. What i have done instead is spent some time taking with different ones and found one who is willing to make schematics for me. I use my resources (which I buy 3-5cpu) and he makes the schematic. I run the factory. This gives me a very low cost on the tissues and helps him out cause he has other things he wants to do instead of hunt meat all day. a win-win.


I don't know what works for you, but if there is one out there willing to partner up, there are likely more. Good luck!


Iplyvi



Iplyvi Olis
Master Architect, Chef & Artisan
The Jungle Spice Cafe' and ArchTech Designs
1010 -6090 Dantooine, Ahazi
only 600m from the agro outpost
(and as Katyryyhn: Master Heavy Swordsman & Brawler)
jeditao
Tue Mar 23, 2004 3:12 pm
#30

There's no way I can sell casked brandy for 75k or even 100k if it costs me that much just to produce it. Don't rush to call anyone greedy just because they're charging more: their costsare most likely much differ from yours.



- TANATA, Master Chef

Visit my Coronet Cafe in South Coronet Mall
Dantooine Cafe in New Alderra City
haala
Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:25 pm
#31


Iplyvi, YOU ARE A GOUGER charging as much as you do for brandy!


You are making a whole ***40-thousand credits profit*** off of just one crate of a product???!!!


Doesn't that make you feel bad when there are other chefs charging a fair and reasonable price for their product, and you're out there gouging your customers every day? You should be ashamed of yourself.


A fair and reasonable price would be just 5k profit over cost. Anything more is just gouging the customer.


For the price of your brandy, a customer of mine could have gotten a crate of brandy AND 10 crates of other foods that they could have shared with their friends.... and brought me even more customers.


The next time I hear you hawking your brandy for 75k at the starport I am going to stand right next to you and sell mine for 35k. I just feel obligated to let all those potential customers know that you're overcharging them, and that they should come to me instead if they want fair and reasonable prices.


Sure that might mean you get mad and start a fight with me, but so what?YOU'RE the one in the wrong, charging as much as you do!


I am not doing this for free, but unlike you,I don't need to gouge the other players to have fun playing this game.


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......This Moment of Perspective has been brought to you by the SWGMerchants' Thinktank for Pricing Perspective.


Whatever responses/counter-arguments were going through your head as you read this original post,,,, would be the exact same responses/counter-arguments I would make to you yourself.


Because the thingis: EVERYTHING I typed above aboutYOU, IPLYVI, being a gouger is ***100% TRUE***.....


...



....to someone out there.


Somewhere out in the wide galaxy, thereare chefsselling brandy more cheaply than you are.
Somewhere out in the wide galaxy,people think you're charging too much.


So if all it takes to be a gouger is the fact that someone else is charging a lot less than you.... well gosh, then anybody, even yourself,can bea gouger. Unless you're giving away everything for free of course.


So charge what you want, it's a free Galaxy.


But you might find that your Chefs Hat fits a lot better when you're not trying to jam a big halo on top of it





Haala's Twinloch Tavern & Petting Zoo, Twinloch City, Talus: -1083 -5060. Master Level Foods and Quality Entertainment.
- Tarquinas Server -
Iplyvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 4:54 pm
#32

hahaha haala - now THAT's the spirit!! I agree with your arguments to varying degrees. That is exaclty the spirit - competition is good. and if you are charging 35K for BIO-brandy then that will help immensely!! I'll consider you my first partner in this pricing revolution!! You go girl/guy!


Of course, I don't make assumptions about you - a halo on me?? Ha, that's a laugh. I just think it is great to embrace some alternative thinking. I play this way - I didn't need your validation but am happy to have it, thank you! It is more interesting to see how the other ways play out. BUT, I am entitled to be passionate about my choices.


Actually it is nice to know that I am in the middle somewhere - I thought I was coming from left field on this. I know my character on Tarq will be coming by to buy some food from you - you are selling below even my costs - and I thought my costs were low... hehe. Good job!!


And that's the point here. It is not an argument of 'price'. It is a challenge to each of us to lower our costs, either directly, or by demanding from our partners a better deal. The ones who feel they must charge 300K a crate are doing it becuase they feel their costs are that high . Yet, I've managed to get the cost down to about $36/crate. and YOU, my god, you have gotten it down to, what, $30K?? That is superb!!!!!! I have something to shoot for. Now we just need to challenge others to work their price down as well.


Right now, you are my hero!


Iplyvi



Iplyvi Olis
Master Architect, Chef & Artisan
The Jungle Spice Cafe' and ArchTech Designs
1010 -6090 Dantooine, Ahazi
only 600m from the agro outpost
(and as Katyryyhn: Master Heavy Swordsman & Brawler)
Iplyvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:23 pm
#33

Jeditao,


That's kinda the point tho. If it costs you 100K to make a case of brandy why aren't you fighting the prices you are paying? There are tailors out there that will trim at 100/unit. There are BEs selling medium tissues for 30K. There are BEs that are selling schematics for just 50K - getting your tissue price down to just 50cpu per tissue!!! There are people who sell resources at 2cpu, or better yet consider harvesting your own at only 60-70 cents per unit. You begin to see?


I, too, would charge more for my foods if they cost me 100K to make. But, I will always be working on lowering my costs as much as possible. So I don't call any one person 'greedy' - and didn't call you that since I don't even know you.


But knowing that a crate of BIO brandy can be produced for as little as 29K makes me think that there IS a part of our profession that is greedy. For two reasons:


1. I am not the only one who has figured out that casked bio-brandy can be produced for 30K cost. I am not that special, there are many chefs out there that can easily figure out their costs. So let's just say out of 100 chefs, at least 10% have figured this out (a modest number, it is most likely higher). Where are the 10 chefs that are agreeing with me??? Only a few have hinted at an agreement. So there are perhaps a handful of chefs who ARE being greedy and charging high prices against very little cost. The other 90%? Who know.


2. Some mentality exists here that if players can afford it - then we can charge it. (see the comments on the 87 million dollar Combat Professionals). Fine. that is ONE idea. Not mine. I disagree and feel that is no excuse to price it that high.



So while MANY chefs are doing their best job to balance their prices, I argue that there are several chefs like me that can and DO produce casked BIO-Brandy for 30K a crate and of those, many are charging 300K or higher for it. That IS price gouging. plain and simple. How can we NOT see that?


And sure, there are some chefs who are somehow paying 150K to make 1 crate. So they charge 300K for the crate - that is NOT gouging and is a fair markup. However, it is not good business when it can be done so much cheaper. And the market would SHOW that if there were more players willing to relax their prices a bit.


Iplyvi






Iplyvi Olis
Master Architect, Chef & Artisan
The Jungle Spice Cafe' and ArchTech Designs
1010 -6090 Dantooine, Ahazi
only 600m from the agro outpost
(and as Katyryyhn: Master Heavy Swordsman & Brawler)
Iplyvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:24 pm
#34


Jeditao,


That's kinda the point tho. If it costs you 100K to make a case of brandy why aren't you fighting the prices you are paying? There are tailors out there that will trim at 100/unit. There are BEs selling medium tissues for 30K. There are BEs that are selling schematics for just 50K - getting your tissue price down to just 50cpu per tissue!!! There are people who sell resources at 2cpu, or better yet consider harvesting your own at only 60-70 cents per unit. You begin to see?


I, too, would charge more for my foods if they cost me 100K to make. But, I will always be working on lowering my costs as much as possible. So I don't call any one person 'greedy' - and didn't call you that since I don't even know you.


But knowing that a crate of BIO brandy can be produced for as little as 29K makes me think that there IS a part of our profession that is greedy. For two reasons:


1. I am not the only one who has figured out that casked bio-brandy can be produced for 30K cost. I am not that special, there are many chefs out there that can easily figure out their costs. So let's just say out of 100 chefs, at least 10% have figured this out (a modest number, it is most likely higher). Where are the 10 chefs that are agreeing with me??? Only a few have hinted at an agreement. So there are perhaps a handful of chefs who ARE being greedy and charging high prices against very little cost. The other 90%? Who know.


2. Some mentality exists here that if players can afford it - then we can charge it. (see the comments on the 87 million dollar Combat Professionals). Fine. that is ONE idea. Not mine. I disagree and feel that is no excuse to price it that high.



So while MANY chefs are doing their best job to balance their prices, I argue that there are several chefs like me that can and DO produce casked BIO-Brandy for 30K a crate and of those, many are charging 300K or higher for it. That IS price gouging. plain and simple. How can we NOT see that?


And sure, there are some chefs who are somehow paying 150K to make 1 crate. So they charge 300K for the crate - that is NOT gouging and is a fair markup. However, it is not good business when it can be done so much cheaper. And the market would SHOW that if there were more players willing to relax their prices a bit.


Iplyvi




Iplyvi Olis
Master Architect, Chef & Artisan
The Jungle Spice Cafe' and ArchTech Designs
1010 -6090 Dantooine, Ahazi
only 600m from the agro outpost
(and as Katyryyhn: Master Heavy Swordsman & Brawler)
Iplyvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:26 pm
#35

sorry about the double post - the computer hiccuped. Perhaps too much brandy?


Iplyvi





Iplyvi Olis
Master Architect, Chef & Artisan
The Jungle Spice Cafe' and ArchTech Designs
1010 -6090 Dantooine, Ahazi
only 600m from the agro outpost
(and as Katyryyhn: Master Heavy Swordsman & Brawler)
ewokkillah
Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:54 pm
#36

I grow weary of people who insist that other people who charge a higher price are greedy. I don't really care how much other people charge for their product. I set my prices by how often I want to restock the vendor. If the vendor, empties too quickly, I raise the price. If it empties too slowly for my tastes, the prices go down. So if I achieve the proper balance and my crates cost 300K and yours only cost 75K, does that make me greedy? I don't think so. I don't care if my costs are only 30K. I am charging for my time and that is way more valuable to me than the price of the resources in the food.



Michi Mi'i
Stalker of Hypocrites (retired)
Iplyvi
Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:15 pm
#37

Ah ewokkillah, don't grow weary if you can help it - embrace the thought process here. While I might not agree with your pricing motivation here, I find it very reasonable and logical for you to come that conclusion. I think it is interesting to say the least!!!


Really the discussion, the passion, the whole thought process here is rather exciting. We at least are all thinking about it or HAVE thought about it. and it is good to see what everyone's justification is.


I will say this, however, there is still a lack of 'fun' being mentioned as a whole. Maybe we just forget to mention it, but being a chef is an absolute HOOT! It is a very fun way to spend our SWG time - no matter WHAT value you place on it, low or high.


Iplyvi





Iplyvi Olis
Master Architect, Chef & Artisan
The Jungle Spice Cafe' and ArchTech Designs
1010 -6090 Dantooine, Ahazi
only 600m from the agro outpost
(and as Katyryyhn: Master Heavy Swordsman & Brawler)
jeditao
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:32 pm
#38

Well, I do know a cople of BEs who charge about 30k for mediums but somehow it takes them at least a week to fullfill my order while those who charge 50k are always well stocked (talk about pricing). But even if I pay 30k for mediums, then the cost of BE brandy is going to be more than 30k right?


I don't care what others charge, I want to cover my expenses and add a profit margin I feel comfortable with plus - as was pointed out - want to keep my vendor stocked. Just because I value my time and skills more than others doesn't mean I'm greedy or I'm ripping off my customers. It's the same as calling you an undercutter just because you charge less than I do.





- TANATA, Master Chef

Visit my Coronet Cafe in South Coronet Mall
Dantooine Cafe in New Alderra City
jeditao
Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:33 pm
#39

Well, I do know a cople of BEs who charge about 30k for mediums but somehow it takes them at least a week to fullfill my order while those who charge 50k are always well stocked (talk about pricing). But even if I pay 30k for mediums, then the cost of BE brandy is going to be more than 30k right?


I don't care what others charge, I want to cover my expenses and add a profit margin I feel comfortable with plus - as was pointed out - want to keep my vendor stocked. Just because I value my time and skills more than others doesn't mean I'm greedy or I'm ripping off my customers. It's the same as calling you an undercutter just because you charge less than I do.




- TANATA, Master Chef

Visit my Coronet Cafe in South Coronet Mall
Dantooine Cafe in New Alderra City
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