Carbineer Archive
Thread: Regarding the new CU carbines..
TAfirehawk
Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:33 am
#53
DrowLord wrote:
Sorry, didnt have time to read all of the posts. At what level are SL going to get the E5 carbine? Anyone know?
It is a 3rd or 4th teir cert for SL I believe.....subject to change of course
Antehiem
Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:29 pm
#54
mfg177 wrote:
Well... Though I'm a Carbineer, I can't agree with initial postThe thing is: in Real Life (RL) same things exist. I used to work with different Special forces and Law enforcment guys - some of them being top specialist in their field, but... but there is always some gear in other profession's field. Like most of elite Special Forces had no chance to wield a gun with silent ammo (not silencer, but the cartriget, with produce no noise while being fired). Why? Because it's top secret in another division of intelligence...
So we have in SWG: Bounty hunters have their top-sect\rets, Commandos too... While Masters of certain Arms (Carbineers, Riflemans, Pistoleers, etc) - are Masters, but of common-type weapons. They can not dig in other's secrets, can they?
You are entitled to your opinion of course, but I can see two possible flaws in your post.
First, while my knowledge of armed forces and weapons is very limited, are you saying the 'elite special forces' people 'can't' use this 'silent ammo' because it takes specialised training, or simply because different (and possibly very expensive) equipment is given to different branches of a certain military group? If it's the latter, then its nothing to do with weapon types and training, but actually to do with real world factors of different military branches, etc, doing different things and using different equipment. No doubt some branches of armed forces can use more types of weapons/equipment than they actually do, but there role limits them to what they 'do' use. This has no bearing in SWG, as carbineer, pistoleer, BH, etc, exsist on there own, and outside of any military branches. You can join the Rebellion or Empire, but all that changes is what you can or can't kill in PvE or PvP, not what weaponry you can use.
Secondly, on the game theme still, weapons have to be categorised in perhaps an 'unrealistic' way, for the purposes of game balance, and to represent specialists with certain weapons. I wouldn't imagine that armed forces around the world have units of highly trained 'pistoleers', that could be comparable to the 'pistoleer' in SWG. SWG is more like a 'free market', in that there is thousands of characters running around toting deadly weapons, and none of which need to be part of any military to do so. And while now you can hold a non-certed weapon, but do little damage with it, post CU, you can't even 'hold' a weapon you lack the cert for, which 'realisticly' makes no sense whatsover. So it's clear it's done for game balance, and real life considerations aren't, well.. considered. Simply put, real life can't be used as an argument for what can and can't be done in this particular game, anyway.
Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Mon Apr 04, 2005 4:48 pm
#55
I say commandos or Squad leaders can have the Elite and we'll take the Proton or the E5. I don't want the Elite Carbine without a major reworking of its stats. Because the Elite Carbine doesn't cut it for the name.
I'm also a bit bothered by the fact that the two carbines I was looking forward to most (Prot and e5) isn't going to be Carbineer carbines. Ok, I can remedy this by siding with Commando or SL of course. But still, why does it allways feel like we are getting shafted?
I'm also a bit bothered by the fact that the two carbines I was looking forward to most (Prot and e5) isn't going to be Carbineer carbines. Ok, I can remedy this by siding with Commando or SL of course. But still, why does it allways feel like we are getting shafted?
Message Edited by Mild-Breeze-Trooper on 04-05-2005 01:49 AM
TAfirehawk
Mon Apr 04, 2005 7:04 pm
#56
PLEASE read the posts on this forum for talk of weapons by me.....
RK-827
Mon Apr 04, 2005 9:49 pm
#57
I think I can relate to what Antehiem is saying. I know I'm gonna take a lot of flak for this but I'm entitiled to my opinion as much as anyone here. Master Carbineer SHOULD get all of the carbine certs I would assume. I really wanted a Proton Carbine, but when i found out i couldn't get it I couldn't really shrug it off. The same thing should go for both Pistoleers and Rifleman, they too should all get the certain certs for their weapons, not just carbines. Let SL keep the E5 in their tree, as long as Carbineers can get it as well. Let Commandoswhip out aProton, aslong as we get it too.Try thinking it as the SL is uber (yes i said it) enough to be able to RECIEVE an E5, not vice-versa.
The Master Carbineer is the "master" of ALL Carbines, Master Pistoleer is "master" of all Pistols, etc. This is my way of thinking and I am open for criticizms on this post, just don't downgrade me cause of what I think, I'm pretty sure we all get that enough already
TAfirehawk
Mon Apr 04, 2005 10:00 pm
#58
E5 cert is at Leadership IV right now of SL.....its on TC5 
Again I will repeat.....some weapons had to be made specifically and exclusively for other profs....they had to call them something....some got named Carbines, other Rifles/Pistols/VK's.
The odds are quite slim of duel certs for these special weapons made for hybrid profs.
And no a Master Carbineer is NOT a master of all Carbines......BALANCE can not be achieved that way, sorry even though our title is Master Carbineer.....what should we call a BH weapon, a widget? They gotta name them something to fit within the parameters of existing weapon models.
Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:22 am
#60
jalexu wrote:But why give the pretty ones to others ?
Exactly my sentiment. Why do the other professions get all the good stuff?
Sylow
Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:51 am
#61
Exactly my sentiment. Why do the other professions get all the good stuff?
Actually i don't mind.
Think it over, how valuable are those weapons in the hands of the corresponding professions? How many weapon-abilities do Squad Leaders or Commandos have? To be effective with the weapon, they have to pick weapon specific professions, too. Thus the proton carbine and E5 carbine will not be used by a Commando and Squad Leader, they'll be used by a carbineer who at the same time is Commando or Squad Leader. Those guns are a small additional reward for mastering a second combat profession and i would even say that those weapons should be slightly superiorto Carbineer weapons.
If somebody only takes one of the mentioned professions, without being Carbineer, the small advantage of the gun will be lost as he's lacking the accuracy and speed modifiers tomake good use of the weapon, not to mention that he has no special abilities to give damage multipiers. Thus a Master Carbineer with his Elite Carbine will massively outdamage a Master Commando or Master Squad Leader with their carbines. But if the MC takes the effort and certifies for the commando or SL carbine, he'll be able to do more damage than a pure MC as the weapon has a bit more of damage capacity. In my eyes that's a pretty fair approach.
And to the statement that a weapon always has to be available to the corresponding weapon-specific class, please note the launcher pistol and scatter pistol. I didn't hear a lot of screaming that these guns were certified for other classes than the pistoleer. Now the same "cruel fate" comes to the carbineer, but i personally consider it a fair deal.
Mild-Breeze-Trooper
Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:24 am
#62
It all sounded good untill you brought up the Elite Carbine.
Seriously though, if you compare the carbines we get in carbineer with the guns and rifles pistoleers and riflemen get you'll notice that we keep looking shortchanged. I don't want the be all end all uberweapon, but it would be nice to look at a carbine and go "sweet, that's the master Carbineer Cert I'm looking for".
Personally I'll go Master Carb, Master BH, SL 0040 come the CU.
Seriously though, if you compare the carbines we get in carbineer with the guns and rifles pistoleers and riflemen get you'll notice that we keep looking shortchanged. I don't want the be all end all uberweapon, but it would be nice to look at a carbine and go "sweet, that's the master Carbineer Cert I'm looking for".
Personally I'll go Master Carb, Master BH, SL 0040 come the CU.
Sylow
Tue Apr 05, 2005 4:53 am
#63
It all sounded good untill you brought up the Elite Carbine.
Seriously though, if you compare the carbines we get in carbineer with the guns and rifles pistoleers and riflemen get you'll notice that we keep looking shortchanged. I don't want the be all end all uberweapon, but it would be nice to look at a carbine and go "sweet, that's the master Carbineer Cert I'm looking for".
Personally I'll go Master Carb, Master BH, SL 0040 come the CU.
Patience... it was mentioned more than once that the numbers you read at the moment are far from final. It takes a few seconds to change the numbers and there's still more than a month till CU is here.That's 2678400+ seconds, to adjust the values...
I expect that the Elite Carbine will have its damage significally upgraded for the CU, so it'll be a nice weapon which can compete favourably with the other carbines around.
SeanBlader
Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:06 am
#65
Yes, let's hope you're right Sylow, because as it stands now, if you're a master carbineer and anything other than a Bounty Hunter orSquad Leader, you're going to be really pissed off when you see a Squad Leader who's a carbineer dabbler doing 50% more damage than you against that nightsister.
Sylow wrote:
Patience... it was mentioned more than once that the numbers you read at the moment are far from final. It takes a few seconds to change the numbers and there's still more than a month till CU is here.That's 2678400+ seconds, to adjust the values...
I expect that the Elite Carbine will have its damage significally upgraded for the CU, so it'll be a nice weapon which can compete favourably with the other carbines around.