Carbineer Archive
Thread: The Problem with Rifleman from a Carbineer
eq_mind_wipe wrote:
And I'm a little nervous you're so obsessed with guns....
My comment was probably a bit much. I was just in shock that someone actually thought that pistols and carbines were smoothbores.
As for being obsessed with firearms. I'm a collector. I enjoy shooting them and they are in investment. I have a Federal Firearms License so it's helpful to know something about them.
Hopefully you learned something. If you have any further firearms questions feel free to ask. I don't mind sharing what I know.
You are quite right about what weapons are accurate out to 500 yards. However assault rifles are accurate to those ranges usually too.
However even Assault Rifles nowadays are fairly accurate. Out of the box they can shoot 1/2 - 1/4 MOA. Which means they have a one inch grouping from 200 - 400 yards. Typical combat ranges are out to 300m and that is what the soldiers in the US Army at least are trained to hit at with their Assault Rifles.
A typical sniper rifle has about a 1/4 - 1/8 MOA I believe. So Assault Rifles are plenty accurate for the task they are used for.
One vital thing to keep in mind here though is this. There is a 64m range limit in the game. We aren't talking about 100's of meters here. It is only out to 64m.
Message Edited by Waste93 on 08-11-2004 09:01 PM
2 brandies
1 music buff
1 dance buff (optionnal)
1 canape
1 muon gold
and the rifleman's own'd
not overpowered, simply looks* overpowered
eq_mind_wipe wrote:
Oh I don't claim to be a firearms expert, but I have owned several rifles, and have shot pistols, and like I said pistols don't use grooved barrels. If I am wrong though please post a link (no I'm not talking some obscure german pistol from 1920). Show me something mainstream.
I have two pistols. A German P38 from WWII and it's a grooved barrel. I also have a Beretta 92F (standard pistol of US military). Grooved barrel. I have an M1 Carbine. Grooved barrel. Colt 1911, Lugar, Beretta M34 are all grooved.
I don't think you will find a single SMG that isn't grooved.
Both pistols and carbines have been using grooved barrels since the self contained metallic cartridge became a standard in the 1880's. The old Colt Peacemaker revolvers have grooved barrels.
But lets look at something else real quick. Have you ever heard of law enforcement doing ballistic comparrisons? Where they try to match up a weapon with the bullet it fired. Usually used in murder tirals and such. When they do these they compare the lands and grooves on the bullet with a test one fired from the weapon. If carbines and pistols were not grooved it would be impossible to do this. There would be no lands and grooves on the bullet to compare.
Here are some links. The last link is a search I did using 'pistol barrel groove'. You could substitute 'twist' for 'groove' if you want.
http://www.rt66.com/~korteng/SmallArms/m1carbin.htm
http://www.shilen.com/pistol.htm
http://www.galleryofguns.com/ShootingTimes/Articles/DisplayArticles.asp?ID=21
http://search.msn.com/pass/results.aspx?FORM=SMCRT&q=pistol%20barrel%20groove
Honestly I'm quitegobsmacked that this is even in debate.
You've asked me to prove that they are grooved. Now I'll ask you to find ones made since the 1900's that aren't. The only small arms you will really find since the 1900's without grooves are shotguns and some improvised weapons.
As you said, you aren't a firearms expert. However it makes me nervous that you stated that you owned several rifles and actually think this.
Kaelle_DB wrote:
Well actually it depends on what the creature is. If it is something that is energy vuln, negating AP, the pistol user would do the most damage. Last ditch is 9x damage, cripplingshot/scatter 2 and strafeshot 2 are 7.5x.
But yes the way speed mods are calculated is seriously borked, nothing is going to happen to it any time soon (before the combat balance).
Last Ditch is 6x damage shot.
Brilyn wrote:
< 100 is a 1 sec cap no matter what. >
I don't agree.
The system performs a skillcheck when you equip a weapon, right?
Well, I'm going to assume that this site is accurate.
I'm also going to pretend for the moment that the equation he uses, is the one that SOE uses.
So, if a Rifle is equipped, the >= 1.0 at the end is changed to >=3.0
I'm not going to assume it's this simple, but it *looks* this simple to me.... I mean, if the instituted a limiting factor of 1.0seconds, that's an arbitrary number entered in someplace, and it can be changed, depending on the weapon wielded.
Brilyn.
The link you sent states exactly what I said. Here is the first paragraph stating my claim.:
"Those of you who are decent at math will probably notice something really strange about this formula... once pistol_speed >= 100, you have a less than zero problem. In otherwords, if this was really the formula for weapon speed, woudln't this make it so if you had +100 or greater weapon speed, you could do any special with any speed gun at the cap of 1.0 seconds? The slowest special with the slowest gun on the server at 1.0 seconds per shot? That can't be correct! Who would use a broken formula like that to calculate speed? SOE WOULD.
Yes, thats really the formula, and its why people say speed is "broken" in SWG. This has been confirmed by many many many extensive tests. It really works that way, even though it makes no sense. " -Rem
He writes: +100 or greater speed, you could fire any speed gun at 1.0 seconds. Even with the slowest special.
I was talking ramp up in another thread I think. His graph clearly shows this to be true as well.