Carbineer Archive
Thread: The Problem with Rifleman from a Carbineer
. You know, those guns with the long barrels, that shoot long range, have big scopes, and are meant to kill the target in one shot...without ever being seen.
eq_mind_wipe wrote:
Disagree. Riflemen use assault rifles. Those AoE attacks represent automatic fire. The AoE attacks they have fit into their role as Infantry. Riflemen are not nor can they be Snipers. Which seems to be what you are leaning towards.
Rifleman use rifles, not machine guns
Nope. Assault rifles. Those rifles that are select fire. Can fire either semi-auto or full auto. You know, those weapons that arestandard issue in every modern military.A machine gun is something else. The vast majority of military rifles do not have scopes. Most of those you see with what appear to be scopes aren't even scopes. They are aimpoints. Also called red dot sights. They replace the peep sights. Most have no magnification at all. Some have a very low magnification such as 1.5X. They are used for quick aiming at the target, not sniping at long range.
Riflemen don't use weapons as you describe. You are talking about snipers. They aren't the same thing. Rifleman isn't the same as a Sniper. Ranges we have in SWG you wouldn't even bother with a scope. Snipers can't exist with the given combat limitations.
Look up the description of the T21. It isn't a sniper rifle. It's a light machine gun.
Message Edited by Waste93 on 08-10-2004 11:31 PM
Not even by rich riflemen. >
Brilyn wrote:< And rifles (T21s) cannot be capped at all.Not even by rich riflemen. >Um.... what?+60 speed mod for all?Yes, a T21 WILL speed cap.Let's see....... T21, speed 7.4 (damage roughly 100-390, give or take. This is Stocked.).30% speed slice:5.18: 5.2.Drop a 30% Speed powerup on it, it becomes 3.62.We'll call that 3.7 for the hell of it.With +85 Rifle speed you get:Headshot1 and Headshot2 are speedcapped.In fairness, Heanshot3 *isn't* speedcapped. It's just shooting at an *awful* 1.1 speed......< Light weapons fire fast, heavy weapons fire slowly, who has a problem with this from a balance point of view? >As much as this sounds like a flame: you do, apparently.Changing skill mods just means that people have to find a more creative solution in order to speedcap.a T21, 7.4 spd. Lose the stock: 7.1spd. Add an Imperial Stock: 6.6spd. Add a base Krayt Tissue: 6.3spd. *now* you're speed capping with 80 speed (Rifle drops to roughly 3.1spd with 30% slice and 30% powerup).
Look... I know how to calulate the speed and I did write: you can balance it to +55 or +65 or whatever...
The point was two-fold:
1) The speed mod should be the same for all three ranged professions. The reason for this is balance issues. Due to the speed formula not being linear it is almost impossible to balance the three professions with regards to speed if they differ so much in the speed mod.
2) The speed mod should be low enough to allow variations in the weapon speed to show in the actual fire rate. This seems to be a very reasonable demand, as it gives you the tactical option as well as the vareity to choose between low damage/high speed and high damage/low speed. I mean what's the point in putting a speed on a weapon if it doesn't matter at all?
(I haven't mentioned BH in this, as it is screws up the speed for pistoleer/carbineer and this is another issue.)
eq_mind_wipe wrote:
Nope. Assault rifles. Those rifles that are select fire. Can fire either semi-auto or full auto. You know, those weapons that arestandard issue in every modern military.A machine gun is something else. The vast majority of military rifles do not have scopes. Most of those you see with what appear to be scopes aren't even scopes. They are aimpoints. Also called red dot sights. They replace the peep sights. Most have no magnification at all. Some have a very low magnification such as 1.5X. They are used for quick aiming at the target, not sniping at long range.
Well, the name of our class if Rifleman, not Assault Rifleman. The fact that the T-21 has typical a firing delay of ~ 7 seconds, I don't think you can classify that as anywhwere near even semi-automatic. That is single shot.
Do you know what makes a rifle special from other guns, do you know what it's designed for?
A Rifleman is another name for Infantry. In fact the US Marines still call them that. Assault Rifles are Rifles. However by what you are saying we aren't Snipers either. The name of the profession isn't Sniper Rifleman. Rifles come in many forms. Singleshot, bolt action, lever action, semiautos, and assault rifles. Riflemen use all kinds. You'll also notice it doesn't say what kind of Riflemen we are using your requirements.
Read about the T21. Not what is in the game. It's a LMG. The delay in weapons has nothing to do with mode of fire. It has to do with aim time.
Here is the T21 info. BTW, this is an offical canon source. Please note a couple of things. The name says "Repeating Blaster". Also it's fire rate at it's SLOWEST rate is one shot a second. It isn't a single shot weapon.
BlasTech T-21 Light Repeating Blaster
Larger and more powerful than the typical blaster rifle, the BlasTech T-21 Light Repeating Blaster is the largest weapon that can be carried and used by one soldier. Primarily used in large-scale military actions, it provides support for Imperial army and stormtrooper squads as well as cover for artillery gunners. Because it is a portable weapon, it became popular among Rebel factions and is still used by some New Republic units.
At 1.5 meters in length, the T-21 is perfect for soldiers who need to set up a weapon quickly and with minimal fuss. Along with a belt-mounted tripod and a backpack generator (weighing 20 kilograms), the T-21 can be set and ready to go within 30 seconds. Although it can be wielded by a single soldier two-handed, use of the tripod improves its accuracy out to its maximum range of 300 meters.
The T-21 is capable of being powered by a power pack, but it only contains enough energy for 25 shots. However, use of the backpack generator provides near unlimited ammunition, but its firing rate is limited to one shot per second due to the generator's low cooling capacity.
The power behind the T-21's blaster bolts is amazing, being known to penetrate infantry armor, personal forcefields and even armor plating of light combat vehicles.
Message Edited by Waste93 on 08-11-2004 10:49 AM
Brilyn wrote:
Even still, getting speed tapes isn't a huge difficulty.
You've just changed the problem to only the *rich* Riflemen are broken...
My opinion:
Pistols speedcap a 1 second.
Carines at 2
Rifles at 3.
Or 1, 3 and 5 respectivel.
Something akin to that, imo, would clearly delineate the differences between where each weapon 'fits'.
This is too balancing within the profession I would think. Being "rich" as you say comes from playing more. I feel and would think others would feel that they should be able to be better than a recent master since they spent more time and effort to get those tapes.
Not disagreeing with the 1,2,3 idea, just notating.
"(I haven't mentioned BH in this, as it is screws up the speed for pistoleer/carbineer and this is another issue.)"
/agreedgood point
eq_mind_wipe wrote:
You missed the point I was trying to make. Rifles are distinguished from other guns because they have rifled barrels (they're grooved). The reason they are grooved is to spin the bullet on its way out.Most short barrel weapons such as pistols and carbines do not have grooves.
Absolutely false. Pistols and Carbines both have grooved barrels to impart spin on the bullet. They've had those for overa century now. If you doubt that I would be more than happy to take my camera and take a couple pics of my pistol barrels for 'ya.
If your qualification is that to be Rifle it has to have a grooved barrel you are going to be disappointed in SWG. According to that requirement there are only two rifles in the game. The Tusken Rifle and the Lithitanium Rifle. You don't put grooves on energy weapons because there is no solid projectile that needs spin imparted on it.
So unless you are saying that we should dump all our weapons except those two.....
The entire purpose of spinning the bullet is to increase accuracy at long range. That's what rifles are all about. Long range. Aimed shots. Accuracy.
The purpose is to increase accuracy. Not just accuracy at long range. Which is why rifles, carbines, and pistols have grooved barrels.
Sorry. But you comment that most carbines and pistols don't have grooved barrels has detroyed your credibility. The same technological devices that made rifles replace muskets is the same that allowed carbines and pistols to be grooved as a standard. They were the percussion cap and minnie ball.
Message Edited by Waste93 on 08-11-2004 11:07 AM
