Carbineer Archive
Thread: Face the fact range weapons in this game is a waste of time
TAfirehawk wrote:
The serious PvP'er takes both Ranged and Melee in their template. There is a time and place to use each one, TACTICS will eventually be KING
Definitely have to agree here. There is no subsitute for Melee Mitigation and toughness. A lot of people believe the "Carbine King" template to be BH/Carbineer, but I beg to differ. It's not. A properly stacked defensive Carbineer will always win against a offensive-carbineer.
It's not a question of damage or anything.. it's just that a Carbineer's prime specialty are states, and +80 defense to those basically nullifies them completely.
A BH/Carbineer can invest millions and millions into +25 SEAs of all defensive types, and it'll still put them at only +30 or maybe +40 defense to those. That's not enough, considering they have to be above atleast 50-60 to have any effect these days.(most Fencer defenses are overcome by a few specials, for example. Master Fencer alone gives you +40/50 to most states, but even then, a Fencer can easily be blinded/stunned/dizzied etc after a few specials.. it's required to get tertiary defenses to boost those into the 70/80 range for any worthwhile effect.)
Spend acouple million onspeed SEAs, however, and you've got the prime benefit of a BH/Carbineer. A couple more and you're closing in on Accuracy. You'll never be able to get ConfusionShot or FireKD.. but the addition of something like TK or Fencer means you won't even be using Carbines against certain opponents, which is definitely a good thing.
It's a matter of choice, I guess, and it requires a lot of work. I know of very few defensive Carbineers sadly.. but many more who speedcap in +25 in tapes and who look to PvP, without giving defenses a second thought.. why I'm not sure.
Blamj wrote:
Just because your a coresspondent, doesn't mean your a king or anything.
It just means that you just happen to spend alot of times on the forums.. and well.. that is the role of coresspondent. Heck. SoE could give the Carbiner Coresspondent to a dancer who knows nothing about Carbines aslong the Dancer as a middle man for the Devs and the Carbiner Community.
But it does help to know something about the profession you're the corespondent of
I never claimed to be King or Anything, but you calling me a noob is laughable. Get a clue pal, ask ANYBODYhere. Very few know more about Carbineer ANYWHERE.....
If you want to have an intelligent discussion then I am more than happy to participate but at the same time don't expect me to sit here and do nothing when ANYBODY is offensive or false on this Forum.
BTW, you have no idea the role and responsibilities of a Correspondent....but that doesn't surprise me at all.
Blamj wrote:
Through I stick to the Squad Leader forum more often, no offense TA but you don't seem to be qaulity Corespondent Material.. you deleted all the post from the past Corespondents like they meant nothing. That is disrespect to the old corespondents of this profession. Thats basically saying that you don't respect the community for what it has done for the past year.
This right here proves my point that you don't know JACK. I actually talked to Nova (yes we communicate outside this forum and SWG) about the STICKY posts and we BOTH agreed that it would complete the transition by putting my name up there. All he asked was to have both SOJ and him recognized as previous Correspondents. And you obviously haven't read any of those STICKY posts or you would know that they all link to the old stuff AND give credit to each person (more than Nova)that posted the original info.
And I suggest you go back to the SL Forum because you have no idea what has happened in the past year in Carbineer....
How the &$*@ do you expect me to take no offense to this crap you are shoveling here? This shall be my last response to ANY post you make, no matter how good/bad it may be....your utter lack of knowledge and respect for the Carbineer Community is appalling.
Benora wrote:
1 I want to say that I'm a veterant player Ihave been playing this game since the begining.
2 Guys be honest what are you thinking when you think about starwars light sabers, laser weapons, droids and space ships.
Now this game, is not even close to be consider like a starwars game why? simple melee professions are way too strong, I have done all combat professions and I must say that I'm really disapointed by range professions it's a total waste of time to be. I'm really frusted to see somone with a swords, fist .. to be able to kill someone with a gun, rifle and carbine so easely, I don't want range weapons to be god professions but when you see in this game that most of the npc and creatureshave hight resistance to hall types of dammage cause by a range weaponsI'm totally frustreted.
Range weapons should dominant in this game why? again simple just use your logic, how can you beat somone with a gun or a rifle in real life with your hands or a knife, ok some of you will say it's a game yes it is but fact is fact range should prof that ppl choose 1 and melee to be a complement.
Carbineris the most disapointing range prof to be :
1 at master no special attack
2 if you are not a bh this porf is almost useless
3 Take what ever melee prof you don't need to master a complement prof to be good and strong just a good buff a good composite armor and you can solo almost evrything, in a range prof forget that.
4 Cost of ham when using a special is insane.
5 if they don't want to give range weapon good defence melee weapon should not be allow to wear compiste armor once again it's logic how can you move fast with a sword or your hands with an heavy armor.
6 explain to me why melee can do more dammage then a range weapons execpt commendo and llc bh
7finally DEV should watched movies and reads books about starwars cause it seems to me that they don't know what is the universe of starwars.
I know many topics above have been discuss since the begining of this game, this why it's so sad cause this game has more then a year now and before jtl they should fix the ground, sometimes I'm woundering if DEV are listening and if they care about us. Yes they have done many imrpovements but combat balance is the priority of the game nothing else.
Like I said I don't want range weapons to be god but when you watch movies of starwars most of the fight are done by laser weapons look how storm troopers scare ppl by their precision with a carbine. If you are a real fan like me I know most of the guys who are in this game are will agree with me. This game has great potential to be one of the best MMO of all time but I think DEV should ask help of George Lucas. I like the fact that you can use asword or what ever melee butwhat make starwars what it is, it's laser fights and if not why starwars galactics battlefront is so popular not by the use of melee.
PLZ DEV WAKE UP AND LISTEN TO PALYERS AND IF YOU NEED HELP FOR SOME SUGGESTIONS YOU KNOW WHERE TO CONTACT ME.
in response to number 6, if you think about it, melee should do more damage in the star wars world why? the melee weapons are probably capeable of decapicating some one by cutting their arm off, think about it, blaster weapons are powerful yes, but the burns cause most wounds to close and not cause bleeding- making it less damaging, but is extremly effective none the less, i agree about unarmed however- should not be able to outdamage other professions,
and. on another note. i may contradict my other statement by saying this
but
heh i almost always do more damage with my carbine than i ever did with melee, i'm sorry, 6k damage in pve vs oh about 2300 at the most with fencer? heh. yeah we may not do alot of damage in pvp, we can still win fights with strategic thinking. -_-
ranged profs dont suck!
nor are they a waste of time 
JagdKatze wrote:
The problem with your argument, Rabidmutt, is that the specific example you gave was a poor one. Any Teras Kasi Master who KNOWS how to PVP will destroy a Master Carbineer. Assuming the two people are simply a Master Teras Kasi and a Master Carbineer and nothing else, the TKM has the upper hand. Yes, carbineers have range but effective use of burstrunning when you least expect it can negate that, and TKMs specials are chainable almost infitely while carbineers are slow, and terribly draining. Switching weapons is fine and all, but since weapon switch is nerfed (something melee profs almost never have to do) that puts us at yet ANOTHER disadvantage.
Another concern(s) is swordman, fencer, and pikeman. I've seen these profs (repeatedly with pikeman) use a lower posture attack from literally 25 feet away. Now if they're going to give MELEE that kind of range then carbines should have sniper range, and rifles should be artillery to scale it correctly. But they dont. Also, when dueling, melee has intimidate which kills your ability to apply your beloved states and do any real damage. Intimidate, and warcry to delay you for what feels like 30 minutes. This totally destroys your offensive capabilities for the 10 seconds it tkes them to kill you whether you're buffed or not.
Exaggeration? Hardly. A solid pikeman with a mindfire DOT (and there's an ass-load of them out there...almost every PvPer is a pikeman with fire DOTs) can wipe the floor with you as a carbineer in 10 seconds flat. You're toast end of story.
What would you do? Knockdown? Not even close...pikeman stack with TKM/Fencer...knocking them down is a 1-in-a-million oddity, and using that attack just crippled your health and stamina by an ungodly amount.
Perhaps a really good mindfire carbine would do the trick? Laughable. The round starts and right away they warcry...now you cant shoot. Then you're intimidated, then flat on your back, and now you're so dizzy you'll never stand up again.
If you want a soloution, here's a few...but dont ever count on them; SOE is hard-determined to turn Star Wars into Lord of the Rings accordin to the way they treat melee.
1.) Give the Imperial carbines the ability to switch to stun damage. "There's one, set for stun!" It makes sense, and it would give a reason to use one because currenty all the E-11's are completely useless.
2.) Lower HAM costs for specials. This is self-explanatory. And its been repeated so I won't bother to elaborate.
3.) Give Masters of Ranged professions the ability to switch weapons without the delay, if not the hybrid profs like BH, Commando and Smuggler.
If those three things were implemented (as well as reducing the ungodly speed/DOT's/low HAM cost/armour compatibility of Melee profs) then WOW...carbineers wouldnt suck as bad! Imagine that!
But it'll never happen. Maybe we should get the Jedi to complain about it for us...the devs only listen to them anyway.
What the hell are you smoking? First off, wear 80% armor, land an intimidate and stun on a TK, they will NOT hurt you at all... and I can guarantee that. They have NO ranged midigation, hardly any TK's have dots, and they are easy to knockdown if they aren't stacked with fencer. If I am fighting a TK I will win 100% of the time, no exaggeration, I have NEVER lost to a TK... I just shred them.
Blamj wrote:
Ok im going to make it easy on you all
-We got the worse defences in the game
-We're slower then Rilfemen
-Our Hamcost on some guns is too high
Some advantages
-Cone KD
-x7 damage Cripple Shot.
- States.
Those are the only points I can think of in my head. Through the biggest problem we have is simply ham cost and a lack ofchoicesstun carbines.
. I have only been a carbineer for a short time (a friend convinced me it was the way to go.... boy was he right ), but here is my quick sum up of the Carbineer prof:- Many different specials with different uses
- Cone attacks coming out of our ears
- An actual challenge to play
- Burstshot 2 (this special rocks!)
Cons:
- States ineffective against high level stuff
- Stun damage (not because we don't have it, but because too many people keep wanting to make it the only viable damage type)
TAfirehawk wrote:
Benora wrote:
Carbineris the most disapointing range prof to be :
2 if you are not a bh this porf is almost useless
4 Cost of ham when using a special is insane.
6 explain to me why melee can do more dammage then a range weapons execpt commendo and llc bh
7finally DEV should watched movies and reads books about starwars cause it seems to me that they don't know what is the universe of starwars.
#2 so very false....I pwn every single BH, well at least the ones that don't spend 10 mil on a Geo Pistol *cough*Ben*cough*
#4 buffs make this pointless to discuss....you don't see a Rifleman or Swordsman or TKA or Fencer or Pikeman or Pistoleer spamming specials without some kind of buff either
#6 well I can often get loot rights from most melee profs, but it does depend on the Mob and situation. Carbineer Cone Effect/Multi-Target Specials are quite strong.
#7 LucasArts is very involved with the development of SWG, nothing in Star Wars ANYWHERE gets done officially without their approval.
You have some valid complaints, but go Read the FAQ.....this is nothing new....
as for #2, you can beat a BH due to your defense stacking and the millions you've spentin skill tapes, but I do agree, that BH/carb is not the only way to go. But let's get to the main issue for me:
Hypothetical, excuding ALOT of variables, it boils down to this: A pure Master Carb will get beat by a pure (insert any combat profession except pistoleer possibly) often, although this is never the case (having a pure profesion), the point is for balance to occur, a plain jane Carbineer SHOULD be compete at the level of a pure fencer, or sworsman, etc... hence combat balance. Should have comparable defences that work!!! i.e. block works, dodge works, does counterattack?.... Look at the speed mod for a Master Carb... 60... (no AAs/CAs) compared to every other profession. I know you can make a gerat carbineer with these things, but why should we have to just to be on equal ground as everyone else?
I just really hope these issues are getting resolved in the sand box
TAfirehawk wrote:
Well mixing profs in a combat template is key, if a person is NOT doing that....thenthey are not a "serious" PvP'er, not one of the top PvP'ers....
Exactly. You can claim to lose to a TK as a pure Carbineer, but how do you know if that person defense-stacks or not? You don't.
It's easy to say that Carbineers lose against all other professions, but truth be told.. if you matched up "pure" professions against each other with the proper equipment, I'm positive we could fare quite well. Maybe not be on top, but somewhere in the middle.
And besides, all the comments about people telling us that "purist" Carbineers are underpowered is nothing new, folks. We know that, which is why we're suggesting possible stacking alternatives which could help you in PvE or PvP.
QFE and debate. I think we're still hurting from lack of damage penetration due to stupendous resistances on armor. TKMs don't bypass this, BUT with something like +200 or more unarmed damage within the profession, they are never without an amazing weapon to pound through that handicap. We're kinda gimped there with no way around it.
AdmiralSpy wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
Well mixing profs in a combat template is key, if a person is NOT doing that....thenthey are not a "serious" PvP'er, not one of the top PvP'ers....
Exactly. You can claim to lose to a TK as a pure Carbineer, but how do you know if that person defense-stacks or not? You don't.
It's easy to say that Carbineers lose against all other professions, but truth be told.. if you matched up "pure" professions against each other with the proper equipment, I'm positive we could fare quite well. Maybe not be on top, but somewhere in the middle.
And besides, all the comments about people telling us that "purist" Carbineers are underpowered is nothing new, folks. We know that, which is why we're suggesting possible stacking alternatives which could help you in PvE or PvP.