Carbineer Archive
Thread: Regarding the new CU carbines..
Graysoni
Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:12 am
#27
TAfirehawk wrote:
Not fair to all other profs that are hybrids to not get Carbines too.....just hoping we see dual certs, but some Carbines were made just for a specific hybrid prof, sorry.
Why cant you all get this trough your head. If they let carbineers use the Czerker Dart carbine that BH's get to use, then Bh wouldnt even bother being BH and so on. EVERY prof has asked for unique weapons to set there prof apart, and they have been granted that. The point of this game is not to have some specific weapons for a few classes and a free for all for others. The point it it makes people choose a more diverse ranged of profs, instead of the same old same old. Arnt you tired of seeing a million fencers in pvp, or a million rifleman. I am proud to say i got a gun no one else has. The point is, stop having the immature "i want it mommy" attitude and grow up. If you want that carbine so bad, then go up that proffession. If you dont want to go up the proffession for it, then shut up please!
mescalinex
Sun Apr 03, 2005 12:36 am
#28
as much as i want a proton carbine. i like what they are doing.
we will have more variety in templates, while all still being equally viable.if you like carbines you cant have all carbines, which is nice because say you have a group of carbine fans, they all wont be running around with the same carbine.
think about now, you see a profession, and they always have the same 'best' weapon within the profession. now we can see two people who both like a weapon type, with different weapons.
i love carbines, but i cant have em all, so im gonna get the E5 line and compromise by accepting the fact i cant have a proton. 
TAfirehawk
Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:43 am
#29
Implementor wrote:
just trolling the forums to see what people thinking of CU profession-wise.
Instead of fixing the visibility of scopes/sttocks/barrels...they are dispensing with them entirely. No visual-tweaked weapons anymore. Carbines were the most fun to make this way too, along with some nifty-looking pistols. Very sad
Personally I would rather see 20 FPS than 2 FPS.....so it is fine with me
TAfirehawk
Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:26 am
#30
Graysoni wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
Not fair to all other profs that are hybrids to not get Carbines too.....just hoping we see dual certs, but some Carbines were made just for a specific hybrid prof, sorry.
Why cant you all get this trough your head. If they let carbineers use the Czerker Dart carbine that BH's get to use, then Bh wouldnt even bother being BH and so on. EVERY prof has asked for unique weapons to set there prof apart, and they have been granted that. The point of this game is not to have some specific weapons for a few classes and a free for all for others. The point it it makes people choose a more diverse ranged of profs, instead of the same old same old. Arnt you tired of seeing a million fencers in pvp, or a million rifleman. I am proud to say i got a gun no one else has. The point is, stop having the immature "i want it mommy" attitude and grow up. If you want that carbine so bad, then go up that proffession. If you dont want to go up the proffession for it, then shut up please!
Two things, #1 I have to represent the entire Community to the Devs, not just my personal feelings so getting more Certs in the Carbineer Prof has to be a priority for me. And #2 if you had the full Cert listing for all profs you would see that Carbineer has HALF the Certs (overall and new) of Pistoleer and Rifleman and thus is not fair to us.
Plus a lot of people posting on these forums are immature and still have the "I want it Mommy" attitude.....not matter their age 
But either way, telliing people to shut up is rude and you need to edit that out of your post or I will have a Mod do it....we are not here to censor people's opinions and thus I don't want to have your entire post removed or anybody else's.
But either way, telliing people to shut up is rude and you need to edit that out of your post or I will have a Mod do it....we are not here to censor people's opinions and thus I don't want to have your entire post removed or anybody else's.
Antehiem
Sun Apr 03, 2005 6:59 am
#31
TA, we share the 'same' position on the idea of multi-certed carbines. I am not saying take new carbines from BH, SL, commando, etc, I am saying compromise with multi-certed weapons. I said this in my first post. Make it master carbineer only, where they gain these current hybrid only certs. And of course I know they've expanded weapon usage on proffessions, I wouldn't have started this thread otherwise. I'm annoyed they showed all these new carbines with the friday feature, and now we find we can't use at least three of them as they never listed the certs with the friday feature information. How silly of me to assume as a carbineer i'd be able to use these new carbines, and the same is true for those people in other proffessions, only to be told no you can't use X pistol as a pistoleer, etc, etc.
We will never be certed for all carbines. It just won't happen, so please focus on something else. One of things they're aiming at is to give each profession as much uniqueness as possible. Besides, how cool is a weapon if everyone and their dog can use it?
We do not have as many carbines as I would like. The best solution I see it not to take them away from other professions, but to allow certifications in multiple places. While many agree with this, it runs opposite to one of the goals of the CU mentioned above. Regardless, I will continue to push this in the CU forums once we begin focusing on the elite professions. Hopefully a viable compromise will be reached.
In response to this, 'everyone and their dog' is an overreaction, as i'm suggesting making hybrid carbines also cert in master carbineer, so that's a big skill point investment. And yes, they're aiming for uniqueness in proffessions, but they are also allowing many specials to be used across proffessions, so why not weapons too? It's not like i'm saying a carbineer should use commando heavy weapons without having commando, my question is why not let carbineers use all the carbines.
as much as i want a proton carbine. i like what they are doing.
we will have more variety in templates, while all still being equally viable. if you like carbines you cant have all carbines, which is nice because say you have a group of carbine fans, they all wont be running around with the same carbine.
think about now, you see a profession, and they always have the same 'best' weapon within the profession. now we can see two people who both like a weapon type, with different weapons.
we will have more variety in templates, while all still being equally viable. if you like carbines you cant have all carbines, which is nice because say you have a group of carbine fans, they all wont be running around with the same carbine.
think about now, you see a profession, and they always have the same 'best' weapon within the profession. now we can see two people who both like a weapon type, with different weapons.
And my reply to this is that that this CU is addressing the current problem of one best weapon, as if the BH carbine is so much better than the carbineer carbines, then people will dabble for it, and not use the carbineer carbines so much, so the problem of 'better' weapons remains. If the CU is done right, then saying that people will run around the same carbine is a non-issue, as there shouldn't be a case of a better weapon, and if you allow more weapons to be used, there will be more variety, not less, 'if' the CU is balanced and the carbines are all viable, unlike now. Andalso, in regards to Graysoni's post, of course people will still choose BH, as the proffessions should be defined by the role they play, and the specials they recieve, not just the weapons, and because many specials can now be used with all kinds of weapon, people should choose BH because it's a fun proffession and does the role they want to play.
I am not just thinking 'it's not fair, I want all these new guns, and hybrids shouldn't get them', I think they 'should', but I think multi-certing will open it up for more people. And there is no logic to not to a carbineer not being able to use a carbine certed outside of carbineer.. it's a carbine, and the same logic applies to all elite combat proffessions who have weapons certed outside of their proffession. I do understand and respect the need for game balance, so i'm suggesting a compromise, and I don't want to be seen to be jumping on your back over this TA, but this is a golden oppurtunity to try and fixwhat I see asproblem, and i'm not the only one.
Message Edited by Antehiem on 04-03-2005 03:01 PM
TAfirehawk
Sun Apr 03, 2005 7:14 am
#32
Antehiem wrote:
*snip*
You are barking up the wrong tree here.....go tell the Devs.....
bizondele
Sun Apr 03, 2005 1:46 pm
#33
will the elite carbine be worth anything after the CU? It is the master branch Carbine correct?
Ndrene
Sun Apr 03, 2005 2:38 pm
#35
JeradHausser wrote:NO. Carbineers gain the Elite at Novice
On TC5, at this time, the Elite Cert appears in the Master Carbineer box.
Hope things change, but compared to the new carbs.. well, its worse than ever.
Bonestrand
Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:06 pm
#36
Antehiem wrote:
Let me make this simple, TA. Do you think a 'master carbineer' should have access to all the carbines in the game? You don't seem to give much assurance beyond 'lets hope..'. Is it in your power to speak to a dev about this, via a specific forum? It's clear where my stance is, and allowing some carbines to be 'multi-certed' across different proffessions will ensure its fair. I ask any carbineer here the same question, so what do you think?
And Bonestrand, while yes you can dabble, the simple fact is you can spend 106 pts (CU cost, but is it set in stone?) to master carbineer, but not be able to use all the carbines in the game. And you'll be hard pressed to have enough skill points to dabble enough to get access to all the carbines, so in my mind, 'master carbineer' can't be a master with carbines, as they can't use all carbine type weapons as defined by the game mechanics. In my first post I also listed the discrepency between skillpoints to master carbineer and skillpoints to be able to 'use' all the carbines. It's a major difference in points.
Message Edited by Antehiem on 04-03-2005 05:52 AM
here is a simple answer, can you me a sniper in the military and still know how to work a bolt action rifle?
just becaause someone is a master of something doesnt mean they know how to work every weapon of that type. a squadleader might be more effeciant with a weapon then carbineer.
oiller
Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:36 pm
#37
Lol ah TA hum... unless i realy goofed my numbers and yours doesn't work. As of last night there are 15 carbines in the cu beta those are all off the frog. But here is the kicker there are only 8 weapon certs in brawler carbine and in Carbiner. so by my math that means there are 7 not 6 not in carbiner. I didn't go looking for them in the other professions didn'tknow they were there. Just wanted to point this fact out to you.
-"
Ndrene
Sun Apr 03, 2005 3:43 pm
#38
here is a simple answer, can you me a sniper in the military and still know how to work a bolt action rifle?
just becaause someone is a master of something doesnt mean they know how to work every weapon of that type. a squadleader might be more effeciant with a weapon then carbineer.
Minor point. Most snipers are trained on a bolt action rifle. After being fully trained on an issue gun. The the sniper/spotter trade roles and weapons with the spotter generally having an issue varient for support.
This example has no bearing.
I think there is a huge trap re: comparing the "Carbineer" professions to anything IRL, the Carbineer as a military specialty went out shortly after Napoleons era to be replaced with the Dragoon or Mounted infantry.
A carbine is a type of weapon. Nothing more. Carbines are routinely issued to all branches. Generally its nothing more than a short varient of the standard issue rifle.
I think we got labeled carbineers simply because, well, what we are, Assault Riflemen using Assault Rifles is pretty politically incorrect.
Cross certing is a good compromise where certain individuals would have access to "Carbines" as a defense weapon yet still allow a "Carbineer" to use it.
Will it happen? Who knows. On one hand I want every carb in game.. on the other, I look at the SL profession and realize they crave something visibly "Unique" to thier prof. You know, you see a Scatter and go, BH huh? Same will go for other profs.
Message Edited by Ndrene on 04-03-2005 04:01 PM
Bonestrand
Sun Apr 03, 2005 4:39 pm
#39
Ndrene wrote:
here is a simple answer, can you me a sniper in the military and still know how to work a bolt action rifle?
just becaause someone is a master of something doesnt mean they know how to work every weapon of that type. a squadleader might be more effeciant with a weapon then carbineer.
Minor point. Most snipers are trained on a bolt action rifle. After being fully trained on an issue gun. The the sniper/spotter trade roles and weapons with the spotter generally having an issue varient for support.
This example has no bearing.
I think there is a huge trap re: comparing the "Carbineer" professions to anything IRL, the Carbineer as a military specialty went out shortly after Napoleons era to be replaced with the Dragoon or Mounted infantry.
A carbine is a type of weapon. Nothing more. Carbines are routinely issued to all branches. Generally its nothing more than a short varient of the standard issue rifle.
I think we got labeled carbineers simply because, well, what we are, Assault Riflemen using Assault Rifles is pretty politically incorrect.
Cross certing is a good compromise where certain individuals would have access to "Carbines" as a defense weapon yet still allow a "Carbineer" to use it.
Will it happen? Who knows. On one hand I want every carb in game.. on the other, I look at the SL profession and realize they crave something visibly "Unique" to thier prof. You know, you see a Scatter and go, BH huh? Same will go for other profs.
Message Edited by Ndrene on 04-03-2005 04:01 PM
that is not what matters, people who say I am a master carbineer and expect every carbine to be theirs are narrow minded and selfish, what about proffs who have had nothing their own since the game came out and finaly get something, but what does everyone do flame them for haveing it and try to take it away.