Carbineer Archive
Thread: Carbineer vision
HashiEno
Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:09 am
#27
i agree that getting state changes to work against high level mobs is of utmost importance for carbineer, more so than perhaps any other profession (except maybe pikeman). my reasoning for this is that state changes are the specialty of the carbineer, and so we SHOULD be better at applying them than all the other professions that already specialize in speed or dps and happen to also have a state change or two.
state and posture changes are what make carbineer unique. indeed, we are not the fastest nor do we output the most damage. nerfing state changes when fighting high end mobs may only be an inconvenience for most combat profs, while it nearly takes us out of the equation. simply put, carbineer should not take the same penalty for a successful state/posture change that the rest of the profs might due to the simple fact that this is our bread and butter. we should be better at it.
and for the record we are not. yesterday i was fighting a canyon krayt with a group, and i never got a single carbineer state or posturedown to work, in over an hour of trying (against multiple krayts). on the other hand, a tkm who was there was able to kd the krayts, and i was able to do so myself using the master brawler lunge skill. yet never, not once, did my carbines (none of them)get any sort of posture down or state change to stick. oh, except the bleed on action shot. that took. the posture down did not. and i AM master carbineer, with a small amount of accuracy and speed tapes.
Rorenikibi
Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:12 am
#28
Agree completely, though I will state for the record, I have ChargeShot1'd Giant Canyon Krayts on two occassions.
Nothing else landed, but seeing that icon change and that thing go down hard was the ultimate "BOOYA!!" for me.
weaponmaster88
Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:39 am
#29
very well done. thing that annoys me the most is i can't do any dungens or other high end PvE bc of 100% resists to every type of dmg i can do..... how can something be completly immune to a giant bolt of energy flying at them at high speeds anyway?
Wideshot
Sat Jun 19, 2004 12:53 pm
#30
As a Carbineer and a Ranger, I'd say that the ability (or lack of) to land state effects on high level mobs is crucial twice over; as neither carbineer or trap states will land on high level mobs. Surely debuff states should be a tactical essential in high level combat, rather than just spamming the most damaging attack?
Kevie
Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:04 pm
#31
novamarine wrote:
- The ability to apply numerous states and postures to targets.
- Unfun – the states/postures are impossible to apply on high-end PvE content. In essence, high-end content completely neutralizes one of the class’s biggest advantages.
For these visions to be realized, states/postures must be effective in both PvP and PvE. When a target is, for example, stunned or blinded, there should be serious negative consequences.
i agree........ i'm a pistoleer and i was just lurking around on here and thought i'd add some input for you guys
currently the only real defenses pistoleers have are huge defenses against state effects and dodge
but, in the heat of battle, all one needs to do is just spam a state-altering special one more time and it'll most likely land then
Randonb, our correspondent, suggested a delay before a state could be reapplied after it has failed. this would be a total nerf for carbineers since that's all they rely on so here's my suggested compromise, and let me know what ya think:
add modifiers throughout the carbineer profession that adds to the chance to land states (like +25% to land dizzy, etc.)
that way, although pistoleers would still block a lot, many other professions wouldn't, and in a lot of high-end pve content, carbineers could be very useful.
of course this idea needs some fleshing out, but i think it could be a very good comprimise for both professions to get what we want
(also it would add pistoleer as some possible dabbling possibilities to defend against those enemy carbineers )
Kaelle_DB
Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:31 pm
#32
Kevie wrote:
novamarine wrote:
- The ability to apply numerous states and postures to targets.
- Unfun – the states/postures are impossible to apply on high-end PvE content. In essence, high-end content completely neutralizes one of the class’s biggest advantages.
For these visions to be realized, states/postures must be effective in both PvP and PvE. When a target is, for example, stunned or blinded, there should be serious negative consequences.
i agree........ i'm a pistoleer and i was just lurking around on here and thought i'd add some input for you guys
currently the only real defenses pistoleers have are huge defenses against state effects and dodge
but, in the heat of battle, all one needs to do is just spam a state-altering special one more time and it'll most likely land then
Randonb, our correspondent, suggested a delay before a state could be reapplied after it has failed. this would be a total nerf for carbineers since that's all they rely on so here's my suggested compromise, and let me know what ya think:
add modifiers throughout the carbineer profession that adds to the chance to land states (like +25% to land dizzy, etc.)
that way, although pistoleers would still block a lot, many other professions wouldn't, and in a lot of high-end pve content, carbineers could be very useful.
of course this idea needs some fleshing out, but i think it could be a very good comprimise for both professions to get what we want
(also it would add pistoleer as some possible dabbling possibilities to defend against those enemy carbineers )
Wow that's a really good idea, offensive state modifiers that would counter the defensive ones. Too bad it will never happen. 
Bennyboy4308
Mon Jun 21, 2004 2:43 pm
#33
It sounds ok when compared to pistoleers, but it'd give that much more power to the already over-powered melee stackers.
AaBeck
Thu Aug 05, 2004 1:52 am
#35
Disclaimer
For these visions to be realized, states/postures must be effective in both PvP and PvE. When a target is, for example, stunned or blinded, there should be serious negative consequences. Carbineers are willing to have their damage lower than comparable classes in order to apply meaningful states. In this way states would be force amplifiers where the result of the carbineer stunning the target means that the target is significantly easier for the whole group to kill. In addition, the states should be able to be applied after several attempts (targets in both PvE and PvP should not be immune or nearly immune to having states applied). Currently, in PvE, many high-end targets are immune to all of the states that carbineers can apply. In PvP, many professions and foods offer defenses against states/postures that largely negate the states by making the states/postures impossible to apply. As such, for carbineers to make a positive contribution to a group, the effectiveness of the states/postures and the formidable defenses against them must be balanced. Carbineer cannot become a class defined by applying states and then give everyone defenses that make them immune. A balance must be achieved.
Message Edited by novamarine on 06-14-2004 04:21 PM
Carbineers are willing to have their damage lower than comparable classes in order to apply meaningful states. In this way states would be force amplifiers where the result of the carbineer stunning the target means that the target is significantly easier for the whole group to kill. Bull **edit** we wont 
Over my Dead Body im not giving up my Damage for some Lazy States that can be Healed Instand by Any Profession due to the Dabble many has in Doctor??? High Damage is the only thing that Keeps me Alive atm.... they have to Heal their Health and Action pool so many times they Dry up on Mind.
TAfirehawk
Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:31 am
#36
Let us remember that BALANCE means one prof, any prof, can not be all things at all times.
We are suggesting that RAW DPS be close to equal of course, but once States are applied then our relative damage output would increase......knowledge is power and only the smart Carbineers will be worth a darn...
Rarool
Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:50 am
#37
Firehawk..
The whole "smart people" win thing is kinda dumb.
In an MMO information flow's so fast that even "dumb" people quickly learn what to spam.
Then they make macros even a monkey could use.
The bottom line is that without damage you lose. This is the current state of
affairs for carbineers. No damage... No defence...
Ranged states are basically very underpowered. I stick states like no ones business.
The issue is damage. You can stick states all day and all night but when that pistoleer / fencer / rifleman whatever
gets up they're gonna fry you with pure damage.
Meanwhile maybe our damage negated they're buffs re-gen factor but god knows they're ham didn't move.
WE NEED DAMAGE MAN!!!
D-AMAAAAAAAAAAAAGE
For god sakes were carrying machine guns...
think... laser gattling... muhahahahahaha
They're is something SERIOUSLY wrong when you have everystate stuck on someone in pvp.
They're burning, bleeding, dizzy, stunned, blinded and knocked down... and the damage your doing
isn't scratching them... and they're not even HEALING.
Then they get up hit you in the head with a stick once and your dead.
**edit**.
Message Edited by Rarool on 08-05-2004 06:52 AM
TAfirehawk
Thu Aug 05, 2004 6:57 am
#38
I don't have any trouble out damaging almost every single profession in this game.....of course there are a couple I can't, but those are in need of a SERIOUS NERF.
Completely unfounded whining without having all the facts is for the OTHER profs, not Carbineer. Of course Carbineer needs some improvements, but lets be factual and specific with REAL data from in-game to support whatever we ask for or see this prof becoming.
I say again, no one prof can be all at all times and there still be BALANCE.....lets hope BALANCE finds Jedi and Rifleman next 
And lastly, the one button mashers have no business being in Carbineer.....their weak use of MIND will result in them getting pwned. BUT a Carbineer that devotes himself to the prof can compete on equal or even higher ground than most profs. A player must match a prof to his/her play style to be uber
BTW, I am a Carbineer/Fencer/Pistoleer that is as strong as any non-Jedi in the game today. Yes it may be more difficult to reach this level than a Rifleman/Fencer/Pistoleer....but that Rifleman is going to be getting a SERIOUS nerf....hopefully within the next 6 months, which should have been done 6 months ago 
AaBeck
Thu Aug 05, 2004 10:17 am
#39
TAfirehawk wrote:
I don't have any trouble out damaging almost every single profession in this game.....of course there are a couple I can't, but those are in need of a SERIOUS NERF.
Completely unfounded whining without having all the facts is for the OTHER profs, not Carbineer. Of course Carbineer needs some improvements, but lets be factual and specific with REAL data from in-game to support whatever we ask for or see this prof becoming.
I say again, no one prof can be all at all times and there still be BALANCE.....lets hope BALANCE finds Jedi and Rifleman next
And lastly, the one button mashers have no business being in Carbineer.....their weak use of MIND will result in them getting pwned. BUT a Carbineer that devotes himself to the prof can compete on equal or even higher ground than most profs. A player must match a prof to his/her play style to be uber
BTW, I am a Carbineer/Fencer/Pistoleer that is as strong as any non-Jedi in the game today. Yes it may be more difficult to reach this level than a Rifleman/Fencer/Pistoleer....but that Rifleman is going to be getting a SERIOUS nerf....hopefully within the next 6 months, which should have been done 6 months ago
Who isent a Rifleman bro?? or Dabble in Doctor
Im Master Bounty Hunter, Master Carbineer.I've been voted best Carbineer on my Server..... so i know my Buisness andi Do alot of Damage even more then Riflemen.... and people are going **edit**!! Double Slicer Cheat etc... But whats the Point in States if a Doctor can Heal em??? or a Squard Leader.... Reducing our Damage even more... and making our States More Hitable or Stickableis not gonna help us one bit.... unless the Doctor or Squard Leader will be Having Trouble Clearing the States... Thats my Opinion on Things as they are atm.
And btw we need Kenetic Carbines.... a Machin gun should shoot with Projectils and not a Lightning Gun. its a Machine Gun not a Beam Cannon.