Carbineer Archive
Thread: BH Carbine should be NERFED!
SkyyZeRo wrote:
Shozen wrote:
As of the next big patch,Bounty Carbine speed and accuracy will no longer stack onto the speed of Carbineer.Same as pistol,Pistol speed of BH with no longer stack on Pistoleer speed.So no more uber dabblers like Taco and speedracerlo,also eyeshot being moved to Master Bounty Hunter is a big + to us pure carbineer's.
bleh, when I just decided to go up the Bh carbineer tree.... oh wellz, I stillwant the Fire KD so I'll stick with it... I gave up my 4/4/3/4 CH to go, and I don't feel like lvlingCH up again =D
From where you got thisinformation? I haven't seen anything about this in any posts that the DEV-tracker lists. Is this froma correspondent or where? All I've heard is that DEVs are planing on making speed capsweapons specific, but thatis underfurther redefiningand that is not in the next patch. So where does this "non-stacking"-issue come?
If this is the case then I have to redesign my character. Luckily I'm not very far into the to the elite professions yet.
Innos wrote:
SkyyZeRo wrote:
Shozen wrote:
As of the next big patch,Bounty Carbine speed and accuracy will no longer stack onto the speed of Carbineer.Same as pistol,Pistol speed of BH with no longer stack on Pistoleer speed.So no more uber dabblers like Taco and speedracerlo,also eyeshot being moved to Master Bounty Hunter is a big + to us pure carbineer's.
bleh, when I just decided to go up the Bh carbineer tree.... oh wellz, I stillwant the Fire KD so I'll stick with it... I gave up my 4/4/3/4 CH to go, and I don't feel like lvlingCH up again =D
From where you got thisinformation? I haven't seen anything about this in any posts that the DEV-tracker lists. Is this froma correspondent or where? All I've heard is that DEVs are planing on making speed capsweapons specific, but thatis underfurther redefiningand that is not in the next patch. So where does this "non-stacking"-issue come?
If this is the case then I have to redesign my character. Luckily I'm not very far into the to the elite professions yet.
i haven't seen anything out there either. i personally think it would be a decent 'stop-gap' measure. i hate the way that the bh profession is set up now (2 elite professions crammed into 2 chains, plus chain of commando, add an investigation tree and wrap it all up, slap it together, and call it bh...i'd like it to be much more unique.)
also, UNTIL carbineer is FIXED, do NOT call for bh carb nerfs. its the only way that some of us can compete (well, that and ch.) unless you've played through both, PLEASE do NOT call for nerfs. ALL that posting a thread HERE does, is make bh's think that we're as bad as pistoleers. go post in the development forum, or swg discussion, or whatever they call it. that's for the meaningless, pointless, ranting/venting. THIS forum is supposed to be about the carbineer profession (right?). k. sorry,calls for nerfs upset me. umm, except for ch's...no wait, don't nerf them either. fix me, then we'll talk. oh, and make sure they're fixed too. (FIXED, not nerfed...there's a difference. as in, 'working as intended'.)
Everyone crying NERF should be CASTRATED.
There are too many bugs to fix, stop crying so the devs will fix them
Fact: Bounty Hunters and Commandos are the current FOTM classes.
Fact: BHs ARE better with the carbine when speccing their three tiers of it while we have to max 4x4 tiers of Carbine experience to get to Master Carbineer.
I understand that all you BH/Carbineers are going to cry now, but the fact remains: A pure Carbineer SHOULD be more powerful (with a Carbine) than the BH with his Carbine.
Imo anyway. Fix Carbineer first then we'll see if other adjustments need to be made.
VaainEldritch wrote:
No. I cannot agree. The Carbineer profession is more than just accuracy and speed, man! Look at all of the defensive bonuses the Master Carbineer gets! Look at the variety of specials! BH gets NONE of these. Take a look at the BH skill tree. You'll see the BH gets exactly zero defensive mods. None. Nil. Ziltch. Nada. NO defense whatsoever.
Hehehehehe
Yeah all the defensive bonuses the Master Carbineer gets, I'll list them:
Defense vs Knockdown/intimidate +15
Ranged defense +5
Counterattack +20 (seems fairly bugged though)
that's it.
Granted the Carbineer does get +2 ranged defense from marksman, bringing it up to +7 ranged defense. The Bounty hunter has +17 ranged defense (novice BH) and +24 (master BH). Also the BH has melee defense the Carbineer doesn't.
Yeah we do get loads of specials - 5 random pool single target specials, 2 random poolAE specials, 1 single targetknockdown (not enough time to shoot while the opponent is on the ground). 1 bugged AE knockdown. 1 action pool special, 1 single target stun effect special, 1 AE stun effect special. 2 mulitple pool specials
ok the action pool special BH's already have legshot 2 (kneecapshot) that's the same as legshot 3. So you prolly dabble for crippling shot - in fact if you dabble for burst shot you'll have better defense than a master carbineer 
Our variety of specials is pretty much different names to the same type of specials.
So lets trade, you get crippling shot and I get fire knockdown.
For those of you who like to count boxes...
Master carbineer - 23 boxes
BH Carbine 4 - 41 boxes
Am I counting scout and all the other marksman trees? yes...because they're pre-reqs...we have no choice but to take them. Silly thing to base an argument on huh?
They both miss at a mean rate, do pitiful damage (the 100-200 ranges), and take about 200 ham to use.
Theres always confusion shot, which dizzies and stuns, but yet does no damage.
A pure BH carbine users damage pretty much comes from Legshot2, a marksman skill.
I personally dont see how BH carbine could be nerfed anymore than it is. BH cannot inflict damage with his carbine, only kill himself with the high ham costs and constant misses with his knockdowns. Well of course they could spam Legshot2.....but that doesnt even tie into the BH carbine tree. and it wouldnt do **edit** for damage.
-pandoria
This is a silly thread and we have these threads once per week.
There is a ton of misinformation in this thread. I have done both BH and Carbineer.
BH offers only speed, accuracy and 2 knockdowns. These knockdowns have pathetic damage and HUGE HAM costs. You could never ever ever use the BH specials to kill something. They are "prep" specials. You knockdown the target then switch to pistol or lightning cannon.
Carbineer is a tad slower than BH at master BUT it has all the best damage specials, accuracy, defenses (the fact they are not working is the Devs fault not a BH fault), knockdowns (they work just as well as the BH ones) and some interesting cone specials.
If someone does both classes, they become very very dangerous. Shouldn't they be? I do not understand why people are upset that a BH/carbineer is better than a carbineer. If you want to be that good in combat, do both! If you dont, but you want to be a carbineer/ranger or carbineer/squad leader and have other specialties, why are you upset that a double specialized person is a tad bit better than you?
Further, the coming speed cap changes will fix all of this because they will make changes that very likely result in a Master Carbineer alone hitting the speed cap and make it so the combination of BH and Carbineer doesn't make alot of sense.
Play your class. Enjoy your class. Demand the Devs fix your class when broken (Carbineer is broken). But, just because your class is not working correctly, do not insist others are nerfed!
In addition, I have seen alot of MMORPG. I have noticed a trend and the trend is clearly repeating itself here. It is that the early "strong" classes never end up as the "strong" classes. There are 2 reasons for this. The first is the early strong class gets nerfed to hell as a quick fix to try to find balance. The second is that eventually the Devs give the weak classes a good workover and bring them up to par with all others. Since they were weak early, they avoided the early nerfs and end up stronger. In essence, the last class to get love from the Devs is almost always the strongest. A prime example of this are the knockdown nerfs (which nerfed bounty hunters hard) and the massive increase of damage to the heavy weapons effecting commandos and bounty hunters. Bounty hunters are slated for yet another nerf (eye shot) while at the same time they will allow for massive buffing of mind stats. See how they nerf one thing and counter it in a positive way all at once which results in the effect (eyeshot) becoming complete useless? Eventually the Devs will get around to giving love to carbineers and when they do I can guarentee people will find no need to be a bounty hunter/carbineer hybrid anymore.
If you are mad, upset or outraged, be mad at the Devs for being too slow or too lazy to fix things.
Jesus crist peoples, I'm sorrybut I really have to say this, you all are complete morons, my torso shot in pistol does more damage than any useless spec in bh carbine, it sucks totally. How is it better thancarbineer?We have +10 more speed in text written more than you guys?(BH carbine (MBH) nets a total of +80 while carbineer nets a total of +60 at master) if you use some of your logic here, have you noticed we have MASTER MARKSMAN also ? at master marskman it gives +10 in speed.You or anyonecan get this also you know!so in conclusion, the FINAL difference is BH Carbine has +80 speed while Carbineers have +70 IF YOU CHOOSE TO MASTER MARKSMAN LIKE WE DID.
Everyone is whinning because of a difference in +10 in speed that is written in text? If you havent noticed, I will enlighten you right now. At +70 speed you have hit the SPEED CAP (congrats!) just like us and you will fire at the rate of 1 second per shot, including specials.Go test it if you don't believe me. You can ask anyone also especaially the pistoleers since they made a big thread on speed caps.
Now that I have given you facts, will you stop whinning on nothing? lol
But, I do have to say that if BH is supposed to be the hardest and most powerful profession, why is it so **edit** easy to get. Everyone is running around as BH and its just ridiculous making the game not fun. I do realize the more skill points are required, but once you get novice BH, its not that hard. You just switch weapons and focus on one until you get to the top. There are no Combat XP tree's that you need to get which is by far the hardest compared to any marksman skills. Plus each level requires the same number of XP points like any other elite marksman profession.
If BH is deserving of their status the number of XP required to level up should be doubled. That will reduce the number of players becoming one. There needs to be a balance where the more powerful professions should be harder and longer to obtain. You may argue against this, but just look at Carbineer for example. 3 trees at 150k, 250k, 350k, and 450k xp points per level.... plus a fourth of combat xp. It has taken me forever to get that and only to be rewarded with +5 in accuracy and speed per level up. In my opinion BH is not harder to get than any other marksman profession. It just uses up more skill points which shouldn't be compensated for power. Experience should determine how good you are with a weapon and the fact that BH doesn't require more xp points than other professions just doesn't make sense. If you add up a Master carbineer's number of XP for one particular weapon, the benefits aren't relative to it. Yeah we may have more defensive skills, but its NOT that much more of an advantage over BH Carbine that only requires 1/4 of the XP.