Carbineer Archive
Thread: Why Become a Carbineer when you can be a bounty Hunter?
Why Did they Nerf CH? Because it was over powered and people lost to 3 rancors in PvP
Say it with me PVP not crafting not PvE PVP.
Bounty Hunters attacks are overpowered. Even in PvE this is a combat proffesion. Their is no crafting with Bounty Hunter. They go out and kill things. So its PvP or PvE when its overpowered in one of these than any other proffesion something is wrong.
The bounty hunters I fought had the mind shot with pistol and the falmeing shot with carbine. All they did is spam those shots when we dueld and I never got a shot off. And after I looked at the stats for Carbine and Bounty hunter I found out that bounty hunters speed with a carbine is better than a carbineers.
As for only making bounty hunter have RWS and Master Scout... err you guys talk about put skill points into other things. So you want them to make it to were you can be a master Bounty hunter and a master Carbineer? Thats overpowred. if their not going to nerf it thats way to overpowered.
Point blank the Bounty Hunter does not get better carbinestats than the Carbineer. On another post on this thread I posted just how much more the Carbineer gets compared to the bh.
For crying out loud people the BH gets a few more points of accuracy and speed and the Carbineers go crazy crying NERF NERF NERF THEY ARE BETTER THAN US IN OUR OWN WEAPON NERF NERF NERF!!!!!!.
Go to http://www.swgcenter.com apart from being a great SWG related site it has all the skill trees and what you get with each box. Go through the Carbineer tree and count the carbine specials, the defensive bonuses, accuracy while moving bonuses, and counterattack. The Carbineer so exceeds the BH in that category it's not even funny (here's a hint, the BH get's zero of these bonuses).
The entire Carbineer tree has 18 different skills (boxes). Out of those 18 boxes 15 give Carbine specials. The BH gets 3 Carbine specials. Last time I checked 15 was a bigger number than 3. Even if you take into the fact I'm counting someshot1 vs someshot2 as two shots when technically one is just a greater version of another, if you simply take the number of pure Carbine specials that a Carbineer gets versus what a BH gets it's still like 9 specials to 3. That's nothing to sneer at people.
Just because the BH gets a few more points in accuracy and speed does not make them uber Carbine users and dedicated Carbineers worthless.
Look at the whole picture.
atimes wrote:
Sorry for not explaining my rationale Kubernetes and you have every right to question it by the way.
My rationale is overall a BH is the best overall combatant because of the diversity of the weapons they use. They have experience in pistol, carbine rifles, and a heavy weapon. Coupled with the fact that all BH's are Master Marksman (which every Carbineeer may not be) and Master Scouts (with the terrain nav bonuses that tree provides) makes them a very deadly combatant.
So.. how does this "power through diversity" argument explain the higher bonuses granted a bounty hunter in each of those weapons?
On a related note, if the 5-10 points are such a little deal as BHsclaim, why don't they just say "sure, we think that in order to address the purely perceived imbalance that these bonuses create, we are willing to drop down to 5 points less than the corresponding master advanced marksman"? Since they so vehemently defend them, they must be more than a negligible benefit.
No truly I see what you are saying (honestly I really do get your point and position) and I don't think I missed the point. I totally get the fact that the BH gets more accuracy and more speed in the Carbine then the Carbineer. They also get more speed and accuracy in the Pistol than the pistoleer. The fact that they get 5-10 more pts in a category should not be the cause of the massive amounts of uproar that has happened on the two boards.
The Carbineer is a Carbine specialist and there is more to using a carbine then just shooting faster than a BH.The point I'm trying to make is overall the Carbineer is unparalled in their skill with the carbine. Overall. Do they have to 0wn every category, not necessarily but many people think they do. My advice is tolook at the entire picture and stop comparing just 2 numbers.
The BH is higher than the Carbineer in 2 numbers by a few points and it causes a massive uproar on the boards. Did the devs miss that when they set the BH higher than the Carbineer in those 2 categories. Maybe, so all you do is go into SWGServer.c and chage a few of those 10's to 5's and everyone is happy.
However, I think people are missing my point entirely. You have to look at the entire picture. When you take in all the bonuses that the Carbineer gets that the BH doesn't even scratch how can you say the BH is better in the Carbine than the Carbineer just because they have 2 numbers that are higher than the Carbineers. That's MY point. The Carbineer gets offensive, defensive, and support capabilities and bonuses that the BH does not have.
Point blank simple, the BH has no defensive or support bonuses with the carbine and the ONLY offensive bonuses they get are in accuracy and speed. The Carbineer get's more than that, they get accuracy WHILE MOVING bonuses. If you factor in that bonus and add to the other accuracy bonusesthen the Carbineer actually get's MORE accuracy bonuses than the BH. Oh and do you really think a BH is going to take down a mark without kiting. . . get real. The Carbineer gets kiting bonuses, the BH does not. (For those who don't know "kiting" is the act of shooting while running around. . . in other words where accuracy while moving comes into play)
Of course many people have their opinions opinions are hard to change. I know you guys haven't changed mine and I don't know how succesfull I'll be in changing yours. =)
later
Oh and don't forget. Carbineers have a correspondent just like the BH does. Make this one of the top 5 issues that the BH shouldn't be faster and more accurate in the carbine than the Carbineer. Maybe it was just a simple mistake on the devs part. Remember hardly any of the upper classes were tested and nearly all of them are bugged. This could be a simple balancing issue.
Also one more thing. NOT EVERYTHING REVOLVES AROUND PVP. This thread's entire arguement only comes into play when talking about PvP. Try to understand the BH for a moment. A level 1 mark has 10K HAM. That's 10000 health, action, and mind. They con red, you are by yourself and traps don't work on them because they are not a creature. They hit the BH for massive amounts of damage and from what I read on the BH boards it's next to impossible to take them down without running away a few times. The BH isbuilt for offensive power. . . not much else. That's why they ONLY have accuracy and speed bonuses.
Maybe if you learned more than "attack" and "follow" you would win.
You Pokemen are all whiners.
Atimes, you are missing the point. The point is that you should not get more speed and accuracy from 4 skill boxes than a specialist class gets from 16 skill boxes which are more expensive. None of the other non carbine BH skills comes into consideration for this discussion.
Why don't you tell me what the hell we SHOULD get for the extra skill points we spend? Your MASTER CARABINEER leaves you with 158 Skill points.
If we take ONLY the fourth tier Carbine skill from the bounty hunter tree, we have 76 points left. That's right, less than HALF OF WHAT YOU HAVE LEFT. So tell me why we shouldn't get something for all the extra skill points we have to spend?
And please don't try to say "well you have master scout"....EVERY Bounty Hunter would drop survival and trapping in a heartbeat. Most of them would drop the entire scout proffession if they could.
Carabineers and Pistoleers complaining about bounty hunters is ridicoulous. You have 158 points you can use to get something else. It is possible to be Master Smuggler, Master TKA AND Master Pistoleer. It's possible to be Master Carabineer ANDMaster Creature Handler and still have 52 points left over..That's right, two GOOD Master Combat professions and you still have only 24 less point left than we would if we ONLY got our carbine tree from bounty hunter.
A Master Bounty hunter has 33 skill points left. This does not buy much. Most BH's go with novice medic and First aid III, Pharm III. It doesn't leave alot of room left to try other things. If you want to be as good with a carbine as a bounty hunter, BECOME A BOUNTY HUNTER. Otherwise, shut the hell up and enjoy your extra 158 skill points.
bushjumper wrote:
Atimes, you are missing the point. The point is that you should not get more speed and accuracy from 4 skill boxes than a specialist class gets from 16 skill boxes which are more expensive. None of the other non carbine BH skills comes into consideration for this discussion.
Why don't you tell me what the hell we SHOULD get for the extra skill points we spend? Your MASTER CARABINEER leaves you with 158 Skill points.
What do you get? You get built-in versatility with excellent moves specific to each pool with multiple weapons. You get exclusive access to bounty terminals and special droids. That's just what you DO get. What should you get? I think you should get gadgets useable on humanoids akin to Boba's stuff that was built-into his armor as an extension of the trapping line. I think you should have less stringent marksman prereqs, in exchange for not getting any skill mods to combat in the actual BH profession, instead being given back points to use in a normal weapon profession.
What you should not get is: the cream of the crop in specials (dizzy, knockdown, AND great damage in one move? Close range useable mind pool shot? Dont' try to deny these are among the best moves in the game), the best weapon modifiers of any profession (without even spending the few extra points to nearly max out the skill mod lines of one of the ranged profession of your choice), AND have those bennies for multiple weapon types for the versatility factor, too.
Kaffis:
In beta didn't the devs make it plain that precisely the reason why BHs were given better offensive skill mods was that (a) BHs are (at least weaponwise) all offense and (b) BHs don't have the skill points being a hybrid rather than an elite profession? Maybe I'm wrong.
Either way, the question I have is whether you think that us Carbineers would be as upset about the perceived advantages to BH carbine skills as we seem to be if our own specials, mods and defensive bonuses worked as advertised?
For what it's worth, isn't it also entirely possible that giving BHs humanoid traps (which I always thought was a cool idea) would make them far MORE potent in PvP than the disputed additional offensive mods they get to speed and accuracy? It may make Carbineers and/or Pistoleers feel a bit better, but I'm sure the TKAs, brawlers, etc. would have scream bloody murder as they first get rooted by the BH version ofadhesive meshand then sniped mercilessly from range.
Finally, isn't it the case that Carbineers get their accuracy and speed mods from only eight of their 16 skill boxes (not counting master)? If so than the comparison of the difference seems a bit less severe, since taking 4 boxes of BH to get better mods than Carbineers get in 8 is a lot difference than spending 4 boxes to beat 16 boxes.
I don't mean to muddy the waters further if I'm wrong.
/grindon
Also, you have more options as Master Carbineer. Tell me how is it fair if you can be master of 2 advanced professions and be doing very well in a 3, and be better at all aspect of combat. When a BH, can only dabble in another advanced profession, and only if it one that spawns of his 2 base profession (scout, marksmen). How can you not see the advantages you have.
I truly don't see what carbineeer see. You have enough skill points left to do a lot. You have enough point to master carbiner and masster the one branch of carbine in BH. You could potential have every carbine skill in the game. You can forget the whole BH line and craft. Or you could got the TKA route, or...... Do you see the point.
YOU HAVE MORE FREEDOM!!! A master BH is stuck. He is a bounty hunter. Not much more then that. A master carbineer can be a master weaponsmith, a master creature handler, you can almost be a very stong commando.
Also, you have more options as Master Carbineer. Tell me how is it fair if you can be master of 2 advanced professions and be doing very well in a 3, and (if you had it your way) be better at all aspect of combat. When a BH, can only dabble in another advanced profession, and only if it one that spawns of his 2 base profession (scout, marksmen). How can you not see the advantages you have.
I truly don't see what carbineer see. You have enough skill points left to do a lot. You have enough point to master carbiner and master the one branch of carbine in BH. You could potential have every carbine skill in the game. You can forget the whole BH line and craft. Or you could got the TKA route, or...... Do you see the point.
YOU HAVE MORE FREEDOM!!! A master BH is stuck. He is a bounty hunter. Not much more then that. A master carbineer can be a master weaponsmith, a master creature handler, you can eve be a very stong commando.
I truly do not see how you feel a couple points in speed and accuracy is unfair or unbalanced.