Carbineer Archive

I can end this debate VERY quickly with a VERY simple solution. The ROOT (pun intended) of the problem is ROOT. Simple solution, give the Pistoleers better ability to resist the root. Problem solved, keep everything else the same.

Message Edited by Beltfed on 06-27-2005 09:19 AM

I always tend to come off aggressive, its a by-product of having been hanging about on internet forums and games since I was about twelve

Still, it's also not very helpful when correspondants themselves are taking an aggressive tone and insulting members of their own and other communities. How about TA shows me and the riflemen some common courtesy rather than shooting his mouth off and calling them crybabies because they dont want their profession to become useless?

The problem is there is no distinction in terms of WEAPONS besides the negative range effect. It doesn't matter if you have distinction for Pistoleers and Carbineers in terms of specials because any rifleman can dabble in and use those too. Pistols and Carbines themselves have a negative range, but nothing to make up for it. Well they have slightly lower SAC caps, but those do NOT make up for losing 15 and 30m range. There needs to be other advantages to using pistols and carbs, maybe better damage types and elemental (as it is, there is NO worthwhile kinetic or elemental carbine certed for carbineer. Elite or E11 is the only thing worth using. Not sure how Pistols are doing in terms of that), accuracy buffs from carbs and pistols (I know that sorta works against the role that rifles are more accurate but we need something), or some sort of other weapon buff.

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Bennyboy4308 wrote:
Not sure how Pistols are doing in terms of that

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Well, TA has been a corr a lot longer than me and I can fully understand his frustrations at the current situation.

When I first read a reply you wrote to one of my posts my first instinct was to flame back, thats what your posts do I'm afraid mate.

I think the idea of minumum range restrictions is good, but possibly should be implemented by something like a 50% roll to hit at under minumum range, or even worse. Weapons should fire, but odds of hitting very slim.

with that said the same very low chance to hit should apply to pistols and carbines up to max range. Like the Pre CU system, but with even more severe accu modifiers.

The argument about rifles being at a disadvantage in dungeons is moot.. they SHOULD be. Its a close quarters encounter, and rifles are NOT a close quarters weapon. No single weapon should be the best choice in every scenario in game. Thats why we have general mods and the ability to switch out weapons.

Balance cannot be achieved if you expect balance in all scenarios. A melee'r facing a rifleman in the vast expanse of dead flat ground by the Lars homestead should die. Period. A rifleman facing a Melee'r in the confines of a Forward Outpost building should die, Period. Differing "balances" will appear in differing scenarios, and what is overpowering in one will not be in another.

Pistols should be the short range power, the choice in close quarters for ranged. Rifles should be the kings of open LOS battlefield warfare. Carbines, as assault weapons are in real life, are a compromise of both positions, usable in close quarters, usable at range, but excelling at the mid range.

Range restrictions are closer to reality than what we have now. They just need to implemented as a huge "to hit" penalty and not a "Target is too close/far" message and failure to fire.

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GadonThek wrote:
I always tend to come off aggressive, its a by-product of having been hanging about on internet forums and games since I was about twelve

Still, it's also not very helpful when correspondants themselves are taking an aggressive tone and insulting members of their own and other communities. How about TA shows me and the riflemen some common courtesy rather than shooting his mouth off and calling them crybabies because they dont want their profession to become useless?

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You have earned no respect in this forum with your attitude. On the other hand I have earned plenty of respect on this forum to say whatever I want within the Seven Daily Rules. I didn't come into the Rifleman Forum crying NERF and in fact didn't say that anywhere......so don't come into THIS forum and act better than everybody else here like we don't play this game or we don't know anything about the issue.

Changing the range limitations is not making Rifleman any more useless than what Pistoleer was stuck with when the CU went LIVE.....which is why I call the whiners a bunch of cry babies when it is them, but when it is another prof they are happy and see no problem.

And if you would bother to read my post in the Pistoleer Forum (which is where this discussion is taking place, not here) then you would see I listed 2 possibilities....A) impose range restrictions on all profs, not just 1 or 2, or B) get rid of the range restrictions altogether. Seems like the only fair thing to do for the entire game......but if Rifleman only see fairness in having no limitation but letting Pistoleer have a limit of 35m and Carbineer a limit of 50m, well then I have no reason to ever discuss another issue/post with that person or persons EVER.

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TAfirehawk wrote:

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GadonThek wrote:

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TAfirehawk wrote:

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Arroe1 wrote:

I agree that a minimum range rule for rifles and/or carbines would be a terrbile idea. i ALSO think that the MAX range limitations on pistols and carbines is an equally HORRIBLE idea.

Message Edited by Arroe1 on 06-26-2005 05:45 AM

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And that was basically my post in that thread.....either have all profs limited on range or none. Right now Rifleman has no limits but Carbineer and to a much greater extent, Pistoleer are limited.

In my mind this is totally unacceptable and should have never happened in the first place. Either limit Rifleman or remove all range restrictions from Carbineer/Pistoleer.....otherwise SOE might as well delete Carbineer and Pistoleer.

BTW, be sure to post in the Pistoleer thread....that is why I linked to it to keep the posts in one place.

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You dont seem to get it do you.

If they put a range limitation on Rifleman, they will put one on Carbineer too. The pistoleer Correspondant is calling for a nerf on us too.

There are dozens of solutions which have been proposed, but the Pistoleer corr, and it seems you as well, are determined to go for the least creative, lowest-common-denominator way.

Has it occured to anyone that maybe you're not supposed to be using your sidearm as your main weapon in full on group combat?

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You are the one that doesn't get it, but I won't argue here either about nerf nonsense.

The min range limitation was in the CU for a LONG TIME during the planning stages and yes Carbineer was limited too. It is not a nerf but simply the original way to have some prof distinction. Of course it didn't make it in because half the player base is Rifleman (or more) but when Pistoleer and Carbineer got limited as they are on LIVE currently, nobody could scream loud enough to change it. Funny how all the cry baby Rifleman out there seem to forget that Pistoleer and Carbineer are limited NOW.

Of course I know what this range limitation change means and just like the 'fix/nerf' to Charge Shot over a year ago, which I was one of a handful supporting the change, something has to be done about the current range limitations or lack of them. The smartest fix as I have said as one of my options is to get rid of range limitations altogether......

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I'm sorry, TA, but how exactly is Carbineer limited today, even before Publish 19?

There are far more people walking around with Carbineer titles than I could have possibly imagined before the CU. Yes, Rifleman has more players... at least showing their titles.

Carbineer right now is doing good. It doesn't have that same feel as in the Pre-CU, but it works very well.

I had a Master Carbineer / Master Rifleman / Master Marksman / Pistoleer 3404 character until very recently. I switched betwen my favorite Carbines & Rifles very frequently.

* Carbineer has far better specials for most players' mindset in playing this game. Movement, respectable speed, decent hitting power, and good specials. Excellent area attacks. We have an excellent Snare, a reliable KD, and the specials emphasize mobility: They require the player to be standing.

* Rifleman has the range and accuracy, to attain its damage potential. Sniper Shot does immense damage in one hit (but slow cooldown). Improved Head Shot doesn't do anymore damage than Improved Leg Shot. The attacks are slower but hit hard. The specials also require a different type of play since to fully utilize Rifleman's abilities, you must be prone and/or in Cover.

These 2 professions are great, and that was why I had these in my template. They are definitely both viable professions. In no way are either one limited.

As a matter of fact, none of the range professions right now are limited. They have strengths and weaknesses compared to their counterparts.

TA, if it comes down to range limitations, is there any chance we can skip the artificial inability to use our weapons out of our range limits and just make the accuracy increasing (logarithmically) worse as we leave our effective range?

I agree this is a key to our distinction, but I'd like to be able to accept that limit without needing three different weapons in a fight.

Sounds to me you're complaint is a lack of range.

Take up Carbineer or Rifleman then.