Carbineer Archive
Thread: FOCUS THREAD: Range Limitation Issue with Pistoleer/Carbineer/Rifleman
May I direct you to my thread in the Rifleman Forum?
Over here: Possible Solution to the *situation* with Pistoleer, Carbineer, and Rifleman
"If they can be fooled, they can be killed." Cert all weapons of CL40 or above in elite profession trees(no ALR for j00), and then limit ONE special per-profession as a "profession defining special" which can only be used with that profession's weapon.
Snipershot - Rifles Only
Stopping Shot - Pistols Only
Suppression Fire - Carbines Only
Bam, problem solved. Not that I believe there is a problem, not in PvE anyway. I see a good mixture of professions in PvE, but as usual, the tiny minority of players who PvP on a regular basis(at last count 1-2% of total subscribers) are dictating the way the game is going, and so we're going to end up with no way to enjoy high end PvE content as a ranged profession.
What really distrubs me is TA believes this is a good idea. Why he would believe a totally unnecessary nerf to Carbineers will help Pistoleers(because it wont just be Rifles, we'll get the nerfbat too), or in fact, help us, supposedly his primary concern, is beyond me.
Message Edited by GadonThek on 06-26-2005 01:23 PM
Brete wrote:
Something needs to change , pistoleers , carbineers and even jedi running around using advanced laser rifles is ridiculos. Allowing a proffesion to use specials from another proffesion is also causing huge problems (Q :How many players dont have stopping shot ? A : not many )
yeah that is real problem, another problem are the diferend ranges, so a melee fighter has no chance against a range fighter as long the range fighter uses root and the pistoleer root sticks that often that the melee fighter can be locked up. on the other hand if a melee fight can stay in range of 5m the range fighter is dead for sure. and running is no option for a ranged fighter because he is slower when carrying his weapon, but with the root attack it isn't possible for a melee fighter to run away because the other player wouldn't let the other one run away.
i tried to run away at mulitple fights when i see no chance at all but i never was allowed to run away. the worest case was when i was jumped by 3 jedi and 3 range fighters of the opposite faction while being special forces with my jedi (with my master carbineer/commado i don't pvp very often). that is another problem of the game, people should let other people run if they don't fight back, this can't be achieved by a gamemechanic.
Message Edited by Arroe1 on 06-26-2005 05:45 AM
Arroe1 wrote:
I agree that a minimum range rule for rifles and/or carbines would be a terrbile idea. i ALSO think that the MAX range limitations on pistols and carbines is an equally HORRIBLE idea.
Message Edited by Arroe1 on 06-26-2005 05:45 AM
TAfirehawk wrote:
Arroe1 wrote:
I agree that a minimum range rule for rifles and/or carbines would be a terrbile idea. i ALSO think that the MAX range limitations on pistols and carbines is an equally HORRIBLE idea.Message Edited by Arroe1 on 06-26-2005 05:45 AM
And that was basically my post in that thread.....either have all profs limited on range or none. Right now Rifleman has no limits but Carbineer and to a much greater extent, Pistoleer are limited.In my mind this is totally unacceptable and should have never happened in the first place. Either limit Rifleman or remove all range restrictions from Carbineer/Pistoleer.....otherwise SOE might as well delete Carbineer and Pistoleer.BTW, be sure to post in the Pistoleer thread....that is why I linked to it to keep the posts in one place.
You dont seem to get it do you.
If they put a range limitation on Rifleman, they will put one on Carbineer too. The pistoleer Correspondant is calling for a nerf on us too.
There are dozens of solutions which have been proposed, but the Pistoleer corr, and it seems you as well, are determined to go for the least creative, lowest-common-denominator way.
Has it occured to anyone that maybe you're not supposed to be using your sidearm as your main weapon in full on group combat?
Brete wrote:
Something needs to change , pistoleers , carbineers and even jedi running around using advanced laser rifles is ridiculos. Allowing a proffesion to use specials from another proffesion is also causing huge problems ( Q :How many players dont have stopping shot ? A : not many )
One of the great things with the CU is the flexibility on making your character get what stats and what specials to fit into your playstyle. If you wanted that ability or special, you mastered or dabbled into that profession.
Many of these supposed "fixes," a.k.a., Nerfs, will make the professions completely isolated from each other. Just like back before the CU.
And the system back then was AWFUL.
Message Edited by Warmaker01 on 06-26-2005 12:51 AM
GadonThek wrote:
You dont seem to get it do you.
If they put a range limitation on Rifleman, they will put one on Carbineer too. The pistoleer Correspondant is calling for a nerf on us too.
There are dozens of solutions which have been proposed, but the Pistoleer corr, and it seems you as well, are determined to go for the least creative, lowest-common-denominator way.
Has it occured to anyone that maybe you're not supposed to be using your sidearm as your main weapon in full on group combat?
BadgerSmaker wrote:
GadonThek wrote:
You dont seem to get it do you.
If they put a range limitation on Rifleman, they will put one on Carbineer too. The pistoleer Correspondant is calling for a nerf on us too.
There are dozens of solutions which have been proposed, but the Pistoleer corr, and it seems you as well, are determined to go for the least creative, lowest-common-denominator way.
Has it occured to anyone that maybe you're not supposed to be using your sidearm as your main weapon in full on group combat?
Can you please stop posting everywhere saying I am nerf calling? Have you read what I have posted? I am looking for ALTERNATIVES to min range caps.Thanks to TA for this thread.
Fair enough. Would you mind informing your community of that please?
As one of the few carbiners, I dont want to add to the discussion, since most arguments are already said, but just want to point out what I think might be the most balanced solution:
First: Min Range is not an option!
- Remove ALL min/max ranges (65m cap on ranged weapons) for all ranged weapons
- Bring back the pre cu accuracy penalties for using a weapon outside it's kill zone
- Penalties/bonuses for shooting while moving or using a posture
- Remove the ranged arms from the game (or balance them with huge action costs)
Though this will not prevent the usage of certain pistoleer specials by rifleman, which is in appereantly one of the major reasons this needed call for balancing the three ranged profession is needed:
- Tie certain specials to ranges (NOT weapons), like firearm strike.
This way the usage of specials across different weapons is still possible but the abuseage useage of eg stoppingshot from 65m distance is not possible anymore.
This might be also the most simple way to code it, since PRE CU accuracy penalties already existed as well as while moving/ postures penalites ( and the "accuray while moving attachments would be come usefull in the game too) and the code for specials with ranged limitations does already exist too.
Besides this, there is still the issue for pistoleers that despite using their weapon profession, they sometimes are better off using a rifle than a pistols, as well damage wise, which is as it should be, but as well speed and accuracy wise.
This can be balanced by increasing the pistol related modifiers for the pistoleer, which are currently to low, as was one of the TOP issues shortly after the introductin of the CU but hasn't been touched by the DEVs yet.
With a high accur and speed mods pistol related they can mezz far far faster and accurater as with a rifle as it should be.
If they wanted to do more damage, they could still switch to a rifle or a carbine and be where they are now.
GadonThek wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
Arroe1 wrote:
I agree that a minimum range rule for rifles and/or carbines would be a terrbile idea. i ALSO think that the MAX range limitations on pistols and carbines is an equally HORRIBLE idea.
Message Edited by Arroe1 on 06-26-2005 05:45 AM
And that was basically my post in that thread.....either have all profs limited on range or none. Right now Rifleman has no limits but Carbineer and to a much greater extent, Pistoleer are limited.
In my mind this is totally unacceptable and should have never happened in the first place. Either limit Rifleman or remove all range restrictions from Carbineer/Pistoleer.....otherwise SOE might as well delete Carbineer and Pistoleer.
BTW, be sure to post in the Pistoleer thread....that is why I linked to it to keep the posts in one place.
You dont seem to get it do you.
If they put a range limitation on Rifleman, they will put one on Carbineer too. The pistoleer Correspondant is calling for a nerf on us too.
There are dozens of solutions which have been proposed, but the Pistoleer corr, and it seems you as well, are determined to go for the least creative, lowest-common-denominator way.
Has it occured to anyone that maybe you're not supposed to be using your sidearm as your main weapon in full on group combat?
You are the one that doesn't get it, but I won't argue here either about nerf nonsense.
The min range limitation was in the CU for a LONG TIME during the planning stages and yes Carbineer was limited too. It is not a nerf but simply the original way to have some prof distinction. Of course it didn't make it in because half the player base is Rifleman (or more) but when Pistoleer and Carbineer got limited as they are on LIVE currently, nobody could scream loud enough to change it. Funny how all the cry baby Riflemanout there seem to forget that Pistoleer and Carbineer are limited NOW.
Of course I know whatthis range limitation changemeans and just like the 'fix/nerf' to Charge Shot over a year ago, which I was one of a handful supporting the change, something has to be done about the current range limitations or lack of them. The smartest fix as I have said as one of my options is to get rid of range limitations altogether......
TAfirehawk wrote:
GadonThek wrote:
TAfirehawk wrote:
Arroe1 wrote:
I agree that a minimum range rule for rifles and/or carbines would be a terrbile idea. i ALSO think that the MAX range limitations on pistols and carbines is an equally HORRIBLE idea.Message Edited by Arroe1 on 06-26-2005 05:45 AM
And that was basically my post in that thread.....either have all profs limited on range or none. Right now Rifleman has no limits but Carbineer and to a much greater extent, Pistoleer are limited.In my mind this is totally unacceptable and should have never happened in the first place. Either limit Rifleman or remove all range restrictions from Carbineer/Pistoleer.....otherwise SOE might as well delete Carbineer and Pistoleer.BTW, be sure to post in the Pistoleer thread....that is why I linked to it to keep the posts in one place.
You dont seem to get it do you.
If they put a range limitation on Rifleman, they will put one on Carbineer too. The pistoleer Correspondant is calling for a nerf on us too.
There are dozens of solutions which have been proposed, but the Pistoleer corr, and it seems you as well, are determined to go for the least creative, lowest-common-denominator way.
Has it occured to anyone that maybe you're not supposed to be using your sidearm as your main weapon in full on group combat?
You are the one that doesn't get it, but I won't argue here either about nerf nonsense.The min range limitation was in the CU for a LONG TIME during the planning stages and yes Carbineer was limited too. It is not a nerf but simply the original way to have some prof distinction. Of course it didn't make it in because half the player base is Rifleman (or more) but when Pistoleer and Carbineer got limited as they are on LIVE currently, nobody could scream loud enough to change it. Funny how all the cry baby Riflemanout there seem to forget that Pistoleer and Carbineer are limited NOW.
Of course I know whatthis range limitation changemeans and just like the 'fix/nerf' to Charge Shot over a year ago, which I was one of a handful supporting the change, something has to be done about the current range limitations or lack of them. The smartest fix as I have said as one of my options is to get rid of range limitations altogether......
As I said in the thread on the Pistoleer forums: Im sure Rifleman would be happy to go by the original CU docs. Juts dont complain when you're being rooted and sniper-shotted from 125m....
With a max range of 65m and so many melee mobs/enclosed spaces, you just cant have a min range or it will destroy rifleman. It will make any template with rifles FORCED to take Master Pistoleer, because in 90% of situations, that's the weapon they would be stuck using, and if they dont take MP, they would be fighting in 90% of situations with massive penalties to accuracy, speed and damage.
It would make rifleman a complete no-no for any mixed template. One of the most archetypal mixed templated is Master Rifleman, Master Ranger: The Hunter. With a max range of 65 and a min range of 20-30m, templates like that would become useless. Squad Leaders, combat/crafter hybrids, they would all be forced into taking pistoleer so they could fight.
Surely you can see that there are better solutions than minimum ranges?
EDIT: And while Im at it, how about you stop insulting and sterotyping riflemen? The only crybaby I can see here is you.
Message Edited by GadonThek on 06-27-2005 02:27 PM
Gadon,
You have some good points but the aggresive way you but them across isn't conducive to healthy discussion.
Flaming correspondants is a good way to get your points ignored, however pertinent they are to the discussion.