Carbineer Archive
Thread: CARBINES ROCKS BABY!
Jumbo_Fett wrote:
The problem with all these people talking about their DPS vs. Mitigation 3 is that my bet is, they're looking at their combat tab for damage, not the numbers that pop over the target's head. Invariably, my Elite does more damage against my master rifleman buddy, than does my Laser, despite my Laser's higher max damage.
I think I can speak for TA and myself (knowing we both use the same formulas in our spreadsheets) when I say that we are not using the combat tab nor the in game overhead numbers when talking about any type of DPS. We have spreadsheets that calculate many types of DPS valuesfor all of our weapons. We have precise formulas that calculate the adjusted damage each weapon will do vs. mitigation 3 opponents, and we then use the basic DPS formula with these adjusted values to give us the average DPS vs. mitigation 3.
The spreadsheet I am currently using is my own hybrid version of TA's (I took his, tweaked a few things, and added a few bells and whistles). After puting in all my weapon info, it calculates the DPS and HAM costs for just about every special we have. The highest DPS special is highlighted, and placed on another sheet that list each weapon and it's best DPS (with +85 speed, it's allways using crippling shot). I then have columns that report, for each weapon, Max DPS Special, DPS vs No Armor (PvE), DPS vs Light Armor (PvE), DPS vs No Armor (PvP), DPS vs Light Armor (PvP, no mitigation), and DPS vs Light Armor and Mitigation 3 (PvP).All calculations include AP modifiers, and allPvP values include the 75% reduction. Given the higher popularity in high end mods (i.e. nightsisters), I think I will add a column for both medium and heavy armor in PvE. All the highest DPS values are highlighted, making it easy to see which weapon is best in each category. A ranking of each weapon is also listed under the DPS table.
Cartouche wrote:
"Us PvE types rarely care about AP rating"
Hmm. Speak for yourself. What do you hunt? Doesn't sound terribly exciting
.
pentjaksilat wrote:
Cartouche wrote:
"Us PvE types rarely care about AP rating"
Hmm. Speak for yourself. What do you hunt? Doesn't sound terribly exciting
heh, agreed. anything i generally fight is for fun/challenge & going to have at least ar1, quite commonly ar2 & sometimes heavy of course. i haven't carried a dh17 or ee3 on me since the old days...worthless in PVP, worthless in even mid-level PVE. dxr6/laser are the way to go...'course lately i've had scythe/hammer to augment those as well...'tis a shame swordsman's so powerful in PVE, rarely find use for carb on anything difficult these days.
~pentjak
EE3's are kings of Dantooine, might wanna tap that Examine window when you engage, the numbers you see might surprise you. Heat vulnerability is more common than I though.
Rorenikibi wrote:
EE3's are kings of Dantooine, might wanna tap that Examine window when you engage, the numbers you see might surprise you. Heat vulnerability is more common than I though.
The very 1st listed carbine on there is my regular elite with no bells and whistles (just bought it off of a WS vendor). If I shoot a target with Light Armor, 55% resistance to energy and vulnerable to heat with that elite, I will do the same DPS as I would with with my EE3. So, to put that info into practical terms I can use on the battle field, if a target has AR1 and is vulnerable to heat, but has less than 55% resistance to energy, I am better off using the elite.Also to note, though the Krayt Laser is a little on the uber side for a typical PvE carbine (it was only made with +30, -.3 tissues and a FFS, but still better than most "grinding" weapons), it does show just how high of resistance (75%) a target can have to energy and it is still better to use energy over heat.
Weapon A B C D
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Elite 1337.04 1671.30 1337.04 55.0
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Message Edited by EisMan_Buckeye on 06-08-2004 10:06 PM
I can only go by the performance ingame.
Krayt Enhanced E11(no bleed special uses left) with an Imperial stock and Precision scope: .9 speed, 115-257 damage vsKrayt EE3 no stock, Precision scope: 1.7 speed, 90-220 damage
The EE3 drops them faster, hands down. ScatterShot2 is the shot of choice. I use a Crimson Razor Cat to land the Dizzy, its been more reliable than FullAutoSingle2 and doesn't cost me a shot with lower DPS before unloading a single (special note for TAF, only one!) ChargeShot1 to put them down for a flopping session. I don't have the math, just watching the bars go white on my targets a few seconds faster with one over the other.
pentjaksilat wrote:
eh...we weren't working of combat chat at all, just examining the weapons & running the numbers. little bit better tissues or a little bit better slice...and a laser carbine will outdamage an elite, even w/ mitigation.
~pentjak
EXACTLY, if you use the same tissues and get the same slice the ELITE IS BETTER IN MOST PvP.....come on, you are not comparing apples to apples here......
I use ScatterShot2 in PvP depending on how the HAM bars have moved with FAS2 or even CripplingShot. But honestly the switch is more for variety than a clear difference in kill speed.
Rorenikibi wrote:
I can only go by the performance ingame.
Krayt Enhanced E11(no bleed special uses left) with an Imperial stock and Precision scope: .9 speed, 115-257 damage vsKrayt EE3 no stock, Precision scope: 1.7 speed, 90-220 damage
The EE3 drops them faster, hands down. ScatterShot2 is the shot of choice. I use a Crimson Razor Cat to land the Dizzy, its been more reliable than FullAutoSingle2 and doesn't cost me a shot with lower DPS before unloading a single (special note for TAF, only one!) ChargeShot1 to put them down for a flopping session. I don't have the math, just watching the bars go white on my targets a few seconds faster with one over the other.
Here are the numbers I ran for a target with no armor rating (i.e. Jantas, Mokks, Kungas, etc.) As you can see, when you go from AR1 to AR0, the EE3 shines a little brighter. This is due to the fact that the EE3 is no longer taking the 50% reduction of damage due to AP0 vs AR1. Still note, my good laser and good elite can stillgo as high as the 50%mark and still outdamage the EE3.
Weapon A B C D
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Elite 1337.04 1671.30 1337.04 28.0
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I threw Rorenikibi's stats on their Krayt EE3 and their Krayt Enh. E11 into the mix. I was going to post the numbers until I realized something. The E11 was only a hair higher than my regular Elite (the 1st one listed) coming in at 1395 DPS vs AR1 (the Elite was at 1337 (lmao, NO, that is not a hoax for you leet speakers out there, that it the ACTUAL DPS vs. AR1 for it!) Also, my EE3 was at tad better coming in at 602 DPSvs Rorenikibi's 581 DPS. Using his numbers only makes the EE3 look worse, so I won't go to the trouble of making the stats look pretty just to post them on the forums (if only we could embed spreadsheets here lol).
In addition, I'd like to say that the current AP vs AR system in the game is borked to hell and back. Any of you that read the Jedi boards probably already know this. It should be that being vulnerable to something means that the respectivedamage type punches right threw the armor, with NO reduction whatsoever. That is not the case. The only way to punch threw armor with no reduction is for the armor to not list any stat on the respective damage type.
EisMan_Buckeye wrote:
(if only we could embed spreadsheets here lol).
)Message Edited by jfang on 06-09-2004 12:49 PM