CUEmu - Thread Posts

Scudder

Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:16 am

Tempest must really suck for merchants.People selling at below cost? Vendor lag?

Skud
--------------------------
Level 80 Smuggler
Darjani Peaks, Dantooine, Kauri Galaxy

EdOWar

Thu Mar 17, 2005 10:32 am

Scudder wrote:

From the Stratics HoC Chat:

Brannoc: *[WH]-Banana-SillyWalker* What is the opinion of the Development Team on reducing the Demand for Jedi Power Crystals and Pearls, by making them easy to collect this will therefore make the markets elasticity to change and therefore bring down prices for low level Jedi ?

Lord_Pall: I love price elasticity.

Lord_Pall: Prices dropping are the bane of a lot of merchants, but for average players it's a great thing.

Lord_Pall: Having items be more affordable across the board is not a negative in my view

Maybe I'm misinterpreting this, but what I get from Lord_Pall's statements is that the Devs are intentionally trying to drive down prices on all goods. So this means the Devs have deliberately ignored merchant's concerns about price wars. The galaxy-wide vendor search isn't being implemented for the sake of convenience, it's being implemented as a tool by the Devs to manipulate the economy and drive down prices.

Edit: This is also explain why they are making it available for all vendors, instead of just Advertising IV or Master Merchant.Such aplan wouldn't work if the changes only applied to a minority of the player-base.

That said, if this is their plan, I think it will largely fail. Items that are rare or in very high demand will likely see price increases with galaxy-wide searches. Why? Because the potential customer base has expanded from a few hard-core players on the trade forums, to the entire server. I'm sure there are plenty of players with lots of cash who have never ventured onto the SWG boards.

I make most of my money from grenades. I have a vendor in South CNet, I do planetary advertising and I advertise in my sig (see below)...that's it. No starport spamming, no barker droids, and I'veonly doneone trade forum advertisement. And grenades fly off my vendor; a run usually sells out in 2-5 days. My prices aren't the highest on Corbantis, but they are towards the high end.

Grenades are in such high demand, it's my opinion that my vendor will probably empty within 24hours of my registering it on the galactic search. If this turns out to be true, I can probably get away with raising prices and still selling out very quickly. Sure, there are WS who sell grenades for less than I do. But people burn through grenades so fast, and they are so damn hard to make, that the cheaper stock will be gone fast, and won't be replaced quickly.

Granted, this won't be true for all goods. Anything that is in low demand, easy to make or where quality doesn't matter will probably be locked in nasty price battles. But again, these types of items are usually relatively cheap already, so if the Devs are trying to manipulate prices downward through galactic searches, their larger goal will be largely unmet. In the end, I think rare, high demand and hard to make stuff will end up being more expensive, and the stuff that is already sold relatively cheaply will be sold even cheaper. Everything else in the middle might dropin price a little, but I doubtwe'll see any kind of massive price deflation for high quality crafted goods.

Slim Vargo, Corbantis

Message Edited by EdOWar on 03-17-2005 09:35 AM

PhatMadness

Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:27 pm

#94

*prepares to be flamed* I think its a good thing lol. I have wasted HOURS of my time some days trying to find one stupid item that few people make. I have a crafter as well, and I think it is good in any case. The only thing I wish they would do, is have a 'comission' on sales purchased directly from the bazaar. That way, people can pay extra to get it immediately, or they can travel to your shop to pick it up at the listed cost. I think this would be a much better system. It gives everybody access to the best items, and the ability to find what they want quickly, without the chaff that populate so many stupid vendors these days. It will save everyone time that they waste shopping, and people will be able to play the game more. AND IT WILL REGULATE PRICES. I personally hate crafters that stock good stuff, but sell it at three times what I think its worth, and they justify their exhorbitant pricing by saying 'well I have it and other crafters dont. buy it from me or go stick your thumb up your @$$.' People wonder why our economy is inflated... solo groups and price gougers are the reason.

How Space PvP Should Be

Puertoriqueno

Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:42 pm

#95

Phaelyn wrote:

Vendor lag will ALSO become a concern. On TC-Ahazi, people crowded around the Blue Frogs accessing that system created major lag for that terminal. Since th ENTIRE Bazaar/Vendor database will be on the Galaxy search - The Search system will become laggy - It's inevitable.

I concur with this. I know I get lag just from the items I have listed on my vendor alone...I can imagine this will be a problem.

~<<<EGIDA>>>~
/// Master Architect/Master Artisan/Master Merchant \\\
\\\------------Master Politician/Novice Fencer------------///

KlingonUnicorn

Thu Mar 17, 2005 12:52 pm

#96

I have played combat/entertainer/crafter classes. I enjoythe different aspects ofthese different professions. Its a break from one or the other. With that said, the vendor search I believe is a good thing. I do understand everyone's concerns and the lag issues and the price wars and everything that everyone is worried about. I am not flaming any one concern on these issues at all. We all have valid points so here is mine..

This is my view andI would like to see the searchhappen in the game.

Simple reason is this..

1. Empty Vendors who advertise goods on the planetary map, you take your time to shuttle hop to get to the location, click on the vendor and see the message that there are no items.

Pisses me off!

Okay so I have to go find another vendor...scower the planet to find another..and the same thing! Empty.

When this keeps happening..I have a hard time not opening up my email and sending nasty grams to these crafters/merchants for falsely putting up vendors to get me and others out there and there is nothing on them.

If this was a random occurance I could let it go and make up my own reasons for why it is empty and move on to the next one. But this isnt a random thing, its all over the game on every planet.

This is my routine on how I have to shop in this game.

1. Check the bazaar first. Do a region check, then a planet check and then a Galaxy wide check. Compare prices and write down what I find to go back and buy if i find what I am needing. Make note of where it is and travel there to pick it up.

2. Cant find the item on the bazaar? Okay next step, check vendors around my local planet. Turn on the spam and read where malls and vendors are, write down the waypoints and shuttle hop or speederbike to the location.

3. On the way to said locations check merchant tents and houses that advertise on their signs they have vendors. Sometimes this works..but most times..they are empty.

4. Check planetary map for advertised vendors. Go their locations as well to find empty vendors (most of the time they are, sometimes not) and or find a mall in that city and check things out.

5. Cant find anything on my home based planet. Okay next step. Travel to Corellia/Lok/ Dantooine. Read the spam of advertisers for their mall locations or vendor houses. Write them down and do the same process as I did on my home planet. No need to check the bazaar I already did that. Same process all over..empty vendors..check planetary map..go to locations find empty vendors..keep searching until I do find what I am looking for and when I do..I waypoint it in hopes that when I need it again they will have it in stock.

I spent an entire saturday one day just doing this for simple things that I needed. ALL DAY!! I didnt fight anything, I didnt craft anything I didnt help heal anyones BF or mind wounds..All I did was travel to find EMPTY vendors. After all the hours I spent doing that I didnt even feel like playing the game anymore. I logged off in a vendors house because I was too tired to travel back to the main city to log off.

I enjoy the malls and the feel of going into a store and how some people have really spent the time to decorate their homes, tents and malls. But ya know what..all that does me no dang bit of good if your vendor is EMPTY. It makes meremember to not ever come back to your place. Even if you do end up putting something up on the vendor. I wont make the effort again to travel to your establishment.

So yes if the galaxy wide vendor search is done right I am all for it! Hundreds of pages of items to sift through..*shrugs* I rather have that then spend hours and hours and hours traveling to EMPTY vendors and getting seriously pissed off. At least this way I can find what I am looking for.

I do agree if you do the bazaar search, you buy the item but have to go the merchant to pick it up. BUT..if that merchant charges me to enter their house..I believe that part of the merchant skill should be taken away. I wont pay to go pick up an item I bought from YOU. I refuse to pay enterence fee..even if it is a credit. I cancel it and walk away. That person lost potential business from me by charging me to look at their EMPTY vendor. Bah..bite me.

So yes..have us go pick the item up, dont let them charge the enterence fee, to prevent griefing of players. Decorate your shops and tents just like you are now. I enjoy a nicely done shop. I tell you what..when I do go pick up the item and I look on your vendor and see the other things that you sell and your a source for the items I need..I will waypoint your shop and keep coming directly to you to purchase things from you.

I see the galaxy wide search as a tool for me to find you and the items your trying to sell. I go to your shop to pick up the item and you might be the source of my continued business. Players drop from this game and leave vendors up and all that, its frustrating and it WASTES MY TIME looking at EMPTY vendors. I am a not a powergamer, I dont complain about time sinks or visiting a cantina for healing or anything like that. But I do mind players wasting my time looking at their empty falsely advertised vendors. I can understand a vendor being sold out and I generally give it another chance in a week or so to give that person time to restock, but if it is empty every time I go to look I make note of that and will never visit it again.

I personally love the malls..maybe something could be implimented with that idea that players and guilds came up with the cities. Some how make that work with the galaxy search. Not sure how..but its an idea anyways.

Maybe if someone didnt have put down a guild hall but made a different type of building with different little shops in it to seperate the vendors to give it more of a mall feel to it. Have big malls and small ones for the smaller cities.

Not part of a city or have a vendor in your house..maybe there is something they can do for that..like maybe open up the closed off buildings in the cities and let people rent shop space for their vendor. Put a sign out front with the name of that persons company or goods they sell. Nothing really long in the name but just enough to let you know they are there. I think this would open up the NPC cities a bit more and make then feel more useful and alive. It would be up to you as a player to pickyour choosen city wisely in order to sell your goods.Let them decorate it with some things and maintain that area and if they dont pay their rent..they loose their shop and the doors close.

People that have mastered merchant should be the first choice in letting them have the primo shopping spaces in the NPC cities. If you dont have merchant (like me) but want a small vendor to put up your loot stuff, then maybe they can impliment something for that as well. Not as many choices but we could be given a fair chance as well.

I rather have 1000's of choices than no choice at all in trying to find things.

I'm sure my opinion has all kinds of flaws but its my little opinion and the frustration in trying to find things. I dont care about the ecomony..there really isnt one, its what your willing to pay and thats what drives any kind of ecomony and this is a game ecomony not a real life one.

I just want to be able to find the things I need (food, weapons, armor and even house decorations) without spending my entire day in game traveling and searching to find empty vendors. I am notasking for anything put instantly in my inventory from a far away planet. I am willing to travel to the location. I dont mind that at all! But at least I would be able to find what I am looking for even if I have to sift through lots of pages.

I am sure its gonna be crazy if this get implimented and people are going toover react or quit or whatever. Give it a chance and let them work out the kinks. I am willing to endure it to make my game play better and bring my business to your door if your price is right!

WineGuyJr

Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:01 pm

#97

I would like to add that I don't think this change would end SWG by any means. In fact, for me personally, it would likely be of immense help as I've gone out of my way to make some of the best products on my server (if I can match Ledao in quality then I figure its right up there) while also matching him in price. So barring a massive change in pricing, it would be an easy way to expand my business compared to having vendors on multiple planets (3, at the moment).

But within a month, there would likely be only a few med crafters left (who produce a full line of products, not just buff packs) and it would be even harder for someone new to come along and establish themselves. They would either need to go slowly and collect the resources they need over several months or invest a ton of money buying what little there is to be had (other than what the major producers have for their own use) of the older stuff. And most people aren't going to be patient enough to slowly gather in what they need. And there aren't very many aspiring crafters with the huge bankrolls to buy what they'd need...and even then, they'll be hard pressed to make a good profit if they're going to try to undercut the established producers who, thanks to the Global Search, will likely be keeping their prices fairly low. At least now, a new crafter can gradually ease their way into becoming a major producer...particularly if they have a good location for their vendor(s).

I don't think this change could do anything to increase the number of crafters (at least, I assume that Valcyn's medical crafting community isn't an exception to the rule). I just see it consolidating the crafting business to a few people in each profession (per server, obviously). On the positive side, the products would probably be as cheap or cheaper than they already are and the overall quality would be higher. So in that sense, consumers would come out ahead. I just don't know if that's good for the game or not. If you want to at least tenatively assume that I'm correct, I'd be interested in knowing what everyone else (ok.....maybe not EVERYONE else) thinks.

I agree that it would be interesting if it ended up with a number of crafters in each profession focusing on different meds. But I can only speak for medical crafting and I don't see Ledao just doing Buffpacks and stims, while Billy only does wound packs and I do poison cures and rez kits. Most of the meds we can make ask for pretty generic stuff. The hard part is getting the resources for the components. After that, you can just plug in a nice flora spawn and gemstone and make stims, wound packs, cures, etc. I would be interested in hearing about other professions and whether specialization is likely to occur there, or if it would likely be the same as what I see for the med business.

At any rate, I just wanted to offer an up-and-coming med crafter's view about this.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pavadin Spencer
Master Swordsman / Master Doctor
Ponder Stibbons
12 pt BE / Master Merchant / 14 pt Master Artisan
Fenix-
12 pt Master Weaponsmith / Master Merchant
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All Acounts Canceled on 11/17/05

Drecki

Thu Mar 17, 2005 1:46 pm

#98

Ledao wrote:

Drecki wrote:

The point YOU are ignoring or missing is,your profit/loss situation won't change in ANY way, whether your products are available on global search or not. Again, what is the difference between now, when you are taking "normal" prices, and in the future? What should make you cut down the prices down to where anybody else can't compete with, just because your products are now on global search? This would be interesting for 2 reasons:

My limiting factor now is not the number of items I can produce, or even the number of items I can stock. It is rather the number of items I can sell. Again, my resource have no value in themselves -- just because I paid 400 cpu for some avian meat before the resource kits came out doesn't mean it's worth more than 50 now...

This doesn't answer my question at all, and I ask it for the third time: If you don't undercut the pricesnow without galaxy wide searchto a point where others can't compete any more, why would you do it tomorrow with this new function?

.:Todeco:. ~ .:Jedi ~ Freelancer Pilot:.
.:Xanija:. ~ .:Tailor ~ Image Designer ~ Merchant:.
.:Lyana:. ~ .:Creature Handler ~ Carbineer ~ Rebel Pilot:.
.:ToC ~ Zitadelle des Chaos ~ Talus:.

bluejanus

Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:55 pm

#99

GraySeven wrote:
It seems to me most of the ego driven players would be in PvP, where you get instant gratification for a "pwn"
Pwning merchants? I'd like to say it couldn't happen, but human nature says this is true...

The problem is, we all have valid points. And, quite frankly, I think we will see EVERYTHING here, from vendor lag (got that now) to undercutting.

I can only say that I'm going to wait and see. It may be I'm wrong, its been known to happen. Could be some of you are wrong...heck, we could all be very, very wrong and it might not do ANYTHING.

We've all made our positions known, now all we can do is sit back and wait to see who gets the opportunity to say "I told you so".

Is that TC-Bria still around? They should deploy this idea on a larger TC group.

Isander Aperin - Kettemoor Master Architect (home: Serenity, Naboo)

Structures vendor in the HorkCo Shop near Coronet, Corellia (CLOSED)

Structures vendors in the Mos Mesric Mall near Mos Espa, Tatooine (CLOSED)

Structures, jedi kit, crafting station and resource vendors in Serenity near Kaadara, Naboo (CLOSED)

Pawlin

Thu Mar 17, 2005 5:17 pm

#100

Scudder wrote:

Poldano wrote:

Pawlin, I think Scudder might have meant the items crafted from the schematics are hard to find. In this particular case, the schematics are all over the place, but there are not that many finished technical consolepieces of furniturearound. I don't find this hard to understand at all, the market is probably becoming saturated and loot sellers want more for the schematics than the finished items will be likely to bring.

Saego, Wanderhome

You are correct... sorry I wasn't more clear on that point. Thanks!

Ok, you said: "crafters probably believe that the wide spread availability of the schematic must mean that the item itself is wide spread."

Why would you assume that crafters would believe that wide spread schematics "must mean" that the item itself is wide spread?

Why would you assume that crafters would assume something likethat?

If you can see the items are not abundant than why would crafters not be able to see that too? Cause you think we don't have knowledge of the market for the products we make and sell?

Note that I have a crafting tool full of free, unlimited use schematics, sodo you think I also assume that all of those items are wide spread? I mean those schematics are free and unlimited... thats better than "wide spread" but stillfinite like the tech console schematics...

Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ
Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain

** Please refer to Elyssa's answer

Ackew

Fri Mar 18, 2005 6:08 am

#101

I'm just wondering why they just did'nt remove the price and item cap on the bazzar instead of wasteing all this time and effort on this Would'nt that of done the allmost the same thing?

I'm also wondering why thier (soe) trying to destroy something they spent so much time in the 1st place creating. If you think people will enjoy crafteing that much you spend a large amount of time and effort creating the BEST crafteing/harvtesing system EVER in a computer game let along an mmmorpg. Why do you nearly 2 years later set about destroying it. I mean why bother creating it in the 1st place. If they wanted to create an MMOFPS based on star wars why start it as an MMORPG and then turn into an FPS. Does'nt make sense. But then again when has anything soe does made sense i suppose.

RIP SWG April 27th 2005

KlingonUnicorn

Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:07 pm

#102

oh wow my first one starred post..weeee...pretty harsh when I didnt flame or insult anyone..just stated what annoys me most about looking for things in this game. hahahaha..oh well.

boceifus2000

Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:25 pm

#103

maigy wrote:

2. Who says the price you or others set for your items is the going rate?I don't have to price my items the same or close to yours if I don't want too. The way I see it, I price things at what I THINK they are worth, not what someone else SAYS the item is worth.Don't like it, don't craft. If I don't like your price, I wont buy, plain and simple. There are under cutters in the real world as well as the game. deal with it, adjust, and move on.

Wow, so you really don't care if this ruins the game for a lot people. But anyway my point is, I dont like it and I wont be crafting, and many people feel the same way and they will stop crafting, and you know what most combat players really won't care because the fewbigtime crafters can easily supply the entire server by themselves, but dont be surprised when even fewer people are playing teh game after this change happens.

Message Edited by maigy on 03-18-2005 02:57 PM

I have been playing this game since launch, you know how many times I have heard that since then? There have been many changes since launch that have "ruined" the game for a lot of people but they still paying their 15 a month AND buying the expansions.

There are many more people that play than you think, not all of the post on the boards. Don't think just because some of the crafters post on the boards they are the most well known, I knowmany that don't and got "well known" crafters beat for buisness volumn and prices. Many don't post on the boards for a reason, so don't limit yourself to the ones that do.The ones that postare generally the most expensive people on your server even though there stuff isn't any better than others that don't.

Message Edited by boceifus2000 on 03-18-2005 04:26 PM

Message Edited by boceifus2000 on 03-18-2005 04:29 PM

Colonel Boceifus Gadian (BotD)
Retired
Quote: I have seen too much death in my lifetime...

Balanor Gadian
Retired
Quote: I have made so many credits I can buy my own galaxy...

Ackew

Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:47 pm

#104

maigy wrote:

2. Who says the price you or others set for your items is the going rate?I don't have to price my items the same or close to yours if I don't want too. The way I see it, I price things at what I THINK they are worth, not what someone else SAYS the item is worth.Don't like it, don't craft. If I don't like your price, I wont buy, plain and simple. There are under cutters in the real world as well as the game. deal with it, adjust, and move on.

Wow, so you really don't care if this ruins the game for a lot people. But anyway my point is, I dont like it and I wont be crafting, and many people feel the same way and they will stop crafting, and you know what most combat players really won't care because the fewbigtime crafters can easily supply the entire server by themselves, but dont be surprised when even fewer people are playing teh game after this change happens.

Message Edited by maigy on 03-18-2005 02:57 PM

Thats the trouble with the WANT IT NOW players like him they DON'T care WHO's game thier ruin just so long as THEY GET WHAT THEY WANT AND GET IT NOW.

The thing is when this goes live they will have to spend EVEN MORE TIME trying to find things then they did BEFORE. Go have a look at the bazzar now you will find it has about1200 odd itmes in the inorganic minerals section. How many do you think will be in there when everyone and his dog who has business 3 and higher sticks his vendor on there. TEN OF THOUSHANDS. Do you REALLY want to wade though 100's of pages of crap just to find the one thing you want. It will be even worse if your trying to find a factory crate of something there will most likely be MILLIONS of them on the bazzar.

Then of course there will be an outbreak of silly names as everyone tried to get his item on the 1st page. We will see things like aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaachair or !"&* chair and then thier the people who will include the price and stats in the title so people CAN compare prices galaxy wide.

Strange how boceifus has NO crafting profession in his sig so as usual we have someone who IS NOT crafter trying to tell us crafters what to do. How about they make a mission terminal which instead of just giveing 2 missions any time you like only has ONE mission thet everyone who wants to take it has to BID on and the lowest one gets it. how does that sound? Sounds great to me. With this terminal only those who don't need the money from the missions could get any.

BTW a LOT of people I have talked to who do NOT post on here, and theywill do excalty what you said they DO NOT like this and and WILL NOT craft and they WILL quit the game. Please go try soloing a elder nighsister with NO ARMOUR, WEAPONS, BUFFS, FOOD, OR ANY THING ELSE THAN CAN BE CRAFTED AND SEE HOW FAR YOU GET.

RIP SWG April 27th 2005

Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Galaxy Wide Vendor Search on TC POLL