Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Cross Server lot trading
kazmoony
Sat Jan 22, 2005 5:56 pm
#66
Personally, I think its pretty sad that the devs have not yet responded to this question, but who can blame them, Combat Revamp is a priorty, and if they answer the question wrong, it will come back to haunt them, so better to ignore the question for them, but at least they could have the honor to state some thing like "We are currently reviewing the matter".
Anyways, here are my thoughts on solution to lot trading I posted back in November and the original link, http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=Naritus&message.id=220855 :
As you know, every CD Account Key comes with up to 8characters on 8 different servers. To be honest the majority of players I know do not want to go make new friend all over again 8 times!!!!! Instead, SOE could offer a different option, where each CD Account key comes with 8characters to which ever serversthey want, but each CD Account Key offers only ten lots per server and one jedi per server, regardless if you have all eight characters on one server. So you can have all eight charactres on one server, or you can have them spread out how ever you like, but in the end its only ten lots per server and one jedi per server regardless if you have 8 characters on one server from the same CD Account Key. How ever if you want to purchase additional lots for the same server or have another jedi for the same server, you will have to buy another CD Account Key. I mention that last part, because if its not profitable for SOE then its not going to pass.
Cafa
Sun Jan 23, 2005 3:21 am
#67
kazmoony wrote:
[snip]
Instead, SOE could offer a different option, where each CD Account key comes with 8characters to which ever serversthey want, but each CD Account Key offers only ten lots per server and one jedi per server, regardless if you have all eight characters on one server. So you can have all eight charactres on one server, or you can have them spread out how ever you like, but in the end its only ten lots per server and one jedi per server regardless if you have 8 characters on one server from the same CD Account Key. How ever if you want to purchase additional lots for the same server or have another jedi for the same server, you will have to buy another CD Account Key. I mention that last part, because if its not profitable for SOE then its not going to pass.
Having looked at WOW allowing multiple toons on the same server, I'll gladly look at any option. I've often stated that I would pay for more storage on a monthly basis to enjoy the game.
Someone mentioned that factories are the driving factor behind hording, but that's just not true. I still have 2.4 million units of the best OQ/CD copper ever on our server and it spawned 29OCT2003. That's what drives hording.
Fivo Asia
tyaa
Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:58 am
#68
Greetings,
I read through the full thread and I have a thought that might be implementable and eventually would cause the economy to rebalance without a sudden uber nerf like some other issues have been dealt with in the past.
First, let me state that:
1. I have played for a long time and have operated with just my own lots for quite a while, then I added leased lots from friends on my own server and then I tried out cross-server trades. I believe that the ideas presented here regarding an overall increase to a Characters lots is good with an additional boost if that character is pursuing a crafting trade or multiple trades and would eliminate much of the need to make cross server lot trades.
2. I am a Master Architect and have been so for a long time. I am a supporter ofhaving some driving factor added to the game to cause people to replace items that do actual work (eg: Harvestors and Factories).
3. I fully agree that something must be done to correct the storage issues. The way that it is currently is not acceptable and drives many people to succumb to lot trades(even if they think that they are not really how the game was intended to be played).
My idea is this:
1. They already have to keep track of all of the Harvs and Factories in the Database. If it does not already exist, they should be able to easily add the capability to keep track of the total of how many units a Harvestor has mined and how many units a factory has produced.
2. Using that data, they could then develop a table or formula that would increase the maintenance cost of that structure as it grows older and has been used (for example: At 2,500,000 units mined by a Heavy Harvestor, the maintenace factor on the unit increases by 25%, for each additional 500,000 units the Maintenance goes up by an additional 25%. This will cause folks to replace their equipment based on wear and economics and, while it does not prevent cross server trading, it does make it more work if folks still want to do it.
3. Leave the Admin of structures as it is. There are far too many issues with forcing single character admin and people would bailout of the game for that World of Warcraft wierdness.
4. I love the idea of having a Warehouse facility or a vendor like capability that would allow you to both store your materials and actually sort the lists by the material type and maybe even by critical stats.
There is my two cents.....
Osskot
Sun Jan 23, 2005 12:01 pm
#69
This subject can't be addressed without addressing the underlying root problem of their database and ridiculous storage limits. The "house storage nerf" was one of the factors leading to lot swapping.
Balance must be considered. Every change made in this game has ripple effects. I've explained this before - in a lot swap debate in one of the profession forums months ago - but looks like this is the proper thread to bring it up again.
Preventing lot trades will give even more significantadvantages to those willing to pay more to play. It will empower multiple account holders over single account holders dramatically.
Comparing two Crafters A & B, that I'll call "Single" and "Multiple". Single (A) has one account. Multiple (B) has two accounts.
Both players have their "basic needs" met - for this case, I'm defining basic needs as the following:
Small House used for residence and storefront (2 lots)
SmallHouse used for resource & component storage (2 lots)
Two Equipment Factories (2 lots)
Case One - Analysis with no lot trading.
Player A ("Single") has 4 lots remaining and Player B ("Multiple") has 14 lots remaining. Note - this means that Player B doesn't have only two times the "disposable lots" that Player A has, he has 350% more.
Player B can use that 3.5X advantage for more factories, more harvesting, more storage, etc - all leading to a significant advantage over Player A.
Case Two - Analysis with lot trading - static trade with one server
Player A now has (10 + 4) = 14 lots remaining and Player B has (14 + 20) = 34 lots remaining.Player B's advantage is now only 243% more than A's.
Case Three - Analysis with lot trading -static trade with three servers
Player A now has (30 + 4) = 34 lots and Player B has (14 + 60) = 74 lots. Player B's advantage has dropped to only 217% as compared to Player A.
Case Four - Analysis with lot trading - full static trade (seven servers)
Player A has (70 + 4) = 74 lots and Player B has (14 + 140) = 154 lots. Player B's advantage is down to 208% (2.08X) over A.
So without lot trades, a person holding two accounts could harvest 350% more resources than a player with only one account. Lot trades level the playing field between those that use external resources (real money) to purchase additional accounts and gain an in-game advantage.
Are there problems with static lot trading - YES - I'm not denying that. But a "one size fits all" simple solution of eliminating lot trading will be bad for the game and only server to empower those with multiple accounts.
Tzosskinati
Mon Jan 24, 2005 8:21 pm
#70
All you people that are against lot trades just dont understand the consequences of getting rid of them.
SWG was made to rely on crafting. Under the 10 lot limit that is not possible for a Architect and many other professions.
You cant get rid of lot swaps...and the Devs understand this. I dont understand how all of you cant see this...reason being you all must be combatants. If cross server lot trades are taken away then the Crafting in SWG is Gone cus nobody will want to deal with the complications of trying to craft with the lots given. SWG will turn into a 85% combatant Game and the economy will Die...which will kill the game.
Ask yourself this.
Why havent the DEV's Blocked this cross Server Lot Trading.
Reason: They have more data than all of you that shows what I said is true..
SWG was made to rely on crafting. Under the 10 lot limit that is not possible for a Architect and many other professions.
You cant get rid of lot swaps...and the Devs understand this. I dont understand how all of you cant see this...reason being you all must be combatants. If cross server lot trades are taken away then the Crafting in SWG is Gone cus nobody will want to deal with the complications of trying to craft with the lots given. SWG will turn into a 85% combatant Game and the economy will Die...which will kill the game.
Ask yourself this.
Why havent the DEV's Blocked this cross Server Lot Trading.
Reason: They have more data than all of you that shows what I said is true..
Ewach
Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:43 pm
#71
Exhibit69 wrote:
Realativly decent analysis but you forgot one significant point. What if the cross server trades are done between players who have multiple accounts?
If player B trades only with people who have 2 accounts.. like he does.. then player a still has 74 lots, but player B has 294 lots.. still approximatly a 400% advantage.
No - that's not correct.Theoriginal numbers were right.
Player B has 2 accounts. At 8 characters per account, he has a total of 14 characters on other than his primary server. That comes out to 140 lots. The original post assumed he traded them all and you doubled it again in your example.
autie
Mon Jan 24, 2005 9:54 pm
#72
wow there are alot of stronge opinions on this matter but i love the fact people can lot trade
Exhibit69
Tue Jan 25, 2005 10:25 am
#73
you are correct, ewach. i rechecked my math, and i apologize for posting when i was so tired i could not think properly.
but let us look at the difference between a player like my self , that only has one account and refuses to do cross server lot exchanges, and the hypothetical, 1 account, full lot trader.
i get 8 lots for harvesting, 1 small round naboo home, and 1 factory.
hypothetical exploiter # 1 gets 74 harvesting lots, and some nice houses and factories, and hasacheived an approximatly 900 percent advantage...
Message Edited by Exhibit69 on 01-25-2005 09:31 AM
tyaa
Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:35 pm
#74
I don't know if any of the posts that followed mine were refering to what I posted or not but my proposed idea would not get rid of cross server trades. It would simply make it so that every 3-4 months you would have toconsider replacing the harvs to get maximum efficiency per unit harvested and, if the folks you lot trade with no longer exist, you would have to find new partners to replant them.
This would theoretically start reducing the stuff that has been out there for a long time where there is no account holder anymore and it would create a base level of return business for Architects.
In short, I'mfor lot trades with folks that actually still exist and play the game!!
Ackew
Tue Jan 25, 2005 3:59 pm
#75
As usual NONE of the anti lot trade people have answerd the question of what will happend to the resource market IF they get rid of lot trades. Its becuase they KNOW it will VASTLY increase the price of resources esp grind. I have a load of harvs on traded lots and 99.9% of the time all they get is grind resources which i sell on for 2cpu. I know many other people who do the same. If you got rid of these lots all of us would stop geting grind resources and suddenly the demand would rapidly outstrip supply as very few people would bother to get grind res when they only have 6 lots to get all the resources they need. As a shipwright i need 19 different resources how am i supposed to get this with just 6 harvs. I can't so i have to PAY people to get others. The money for this comes from selling my grind resources. If i have none i must raise prices to get the money to buy the resources. As thier are a LOT less resources entering the market thanks to no lot trades.The price of EVERTHING will rise since the base cost of resources does. So if you want to kill the economy then get rid of lots trade. otherwise shut the &*"£ up.
Exhibit69
Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:13 pm
#76
Try to keep you language clean there man. And to address
/quote
I can't so i have to PAY people to get others. The money for this comes from selling my grind resources. If i have none i must raise prices to get the money to buy the resources
/endquote
thats exactly what i have been doing for a year!
Paying others to get my resources for me. On the other hand you lot traders get your resources handed to you on a platter, and then charge us 2cpu, when we both know your cost /unit is well under 1cpu.
And one more thing.. your static field of 70 harvesters stops me from getting hte resources i need, by monopolizing a Very large area.
Ackew
Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:43 pm
#77
Exhibit69 wrote:
Try to keep you language clean there man. And to address
/quote
I can't so i have to PAY people to get others. The money for this comes from selling my grind resources. If i have none i must raise prices to get the money to buy the resources
/endquote
thats exactly what i have been doing for a year!
Paying others to get my resources for me. On the other hand you lot traders get your resources handed to you on a platter, and then charge us 2cpu, when we both know your cost /unit is well under 1cpu.
And one more thing.. your static field of 70 harvesters stops me from getting hte resources i need, by monopolizing a Very large area.
Sorry but how excalty do i get them handed to me on a plate I still have to pay for the harv and itsmaint and power. SO thats hardly geting them on plate. The % under my staticsis never very good best is about 60 usualy 40 to 50 and quite often lower once again hardly handing them to me on a plate. If you don't like the price GO GET THEM YOUR SELF. Actually i don't have 70 harvs and even IF i did they would take a VERY small portion of a planet leaveing you quite enough room to get any and all resources you might need but since you don't even harvest stuff you can't complain. And AS USUAL you still failed to answer the question i asked. If all the traded lots go away like you want how much do you think resources will be then. A LOT more then 2cpu. esp for grind as no one will bother to get them when they have only 6 lots to get all the resources they need for them selfs. Infact ALL resources prices will rise and so will the cost of ALL goods.Go ahead and ban lot tradeing,I could'nt care less reallyas i have enough money to last me for as long as i wish to play this game and no it did'nt come from resouce selling but from shipwright. If the price for resouces gets to be to high i will simple stop crafting. So will everyone else. This is what will happend if you get lot trades banned.
Exhibit69
Tue Jan 25, 2005 8:40 pm
#78
So let me just get this straight. Your response to me saying that cross server trading is cheating is .. well why dont you start cheating too?
and i think i do harvest quite a bit withthe 8 lots that i use for harvesting, but i will NEVER be able to compete with someone who cheats.
The relative scarcity or abundance of resources makes ) difference to the way they are priced in my experiance. Witness the resource vendor outside of Theed Naboo on my server with 42,000,000 units of the best ever copper to spawn on our server, all priced at 100 cpu.
Message Edited by Exhibit69 on 01-25-2005 07:43 PM