Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Cross Server lot trading

Cafa
Thu Jan 20, 2005 2:46 pm
#53


Other problem points by single admin include:


No more vendor malls.

No more guild common safe houses

No extended rental of factory lots

More lost items from trades that bug constantly as it is


Just a thought.


Fivo Asia

Message Edited by Cafa on 01-20-2005 01:47 PM



- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

MadeEvil
Thu Jan 20, 2005 3:16 pm
#54

If you want to get rid of alot of the cross server lot swaps its fairly easy.

We can't really stop people from placing houses. but we can make it where only elite crafting proffessions can place anything bigger than personal harvesters.

I know I know alot of resources will be drained out of the economy

Anyway no one is going to want to master a elite crafting proffession to just do a server lot trade, well most of them anyway.

Also you could have it where only owners can put money into harvesters and only a set amount of cash each time to where it is a pain to keep putting money into harvesters that you don't use. No one is gonig to want to log on and put money in someone's elses harvesters every week or so.

You can't totally stop it but you can at least slow it down. maybe limit the amount of structure's people can have admins to....

Just my idea's really



- Elmer
Ybagi
Thu Jan 20, 2005 5:47 pm
#55

Make havestors need tune ups, say every 2M units mined the havestor will need to be redeeded and tuned up by an architect (I'm sure they could use the business?).


If harvestors were used as they are intended this would not be a big deal, but it would be a dreadful pain for lot traders.



Yv
Undead Warrior
Alchemist
Malganis Server
World of Warcraft
Alukolli
Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:14 pm
#56

madeEvil wrote


Also you could have it where only owners can put money into harvesters and only a set amount of cash each time to where it is a pain to keep putting money into harvesters that you don't use. No one is gonig to want to log on and put money in someone's elses harvesters every week or so.
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what with the peoples who have more then 1 account. why should it be more work for them if they uses lots from their own char and only play with 1 of them?


i know i would hate that i needed to run around on my harvys with the different tons evry time.



____________________________________________________________________________________ Name: Craminu
Profession: Trader-structure-enginnering
Vendor: 1810 4749 Jackpot on LOK
Vendor goods: Architect Structures-Resources-
Custom orders: yes by mail-Architect/artisan goods
Guild: Charm
Mayor of jackpot
Cafa
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:14 pm
#57


Ultimately, I think the funniest thing that people wishing for some manner to kill cross server forget that the nerf bat is blind justice. It doesn't make exceptions nor have them either.


The implementation of some nerf like this would only make people, like me, with many toons, better able to play and succeed in the game economy over competition. When I finish the FS xp grind I will have 150 lots that are my toons. Accounts that I own and login. If people have no way of renting lots, or using cross-lots, or using guildies/friends' lots how can they compete without buying more accounts? In my case, my family plays on the toons, but they move where directed to help the in-game family and guildies. If the in-game advantages of guilds dissolved crafters would have even more reason to never trust anyone.


In my mind, things like contracts, auction centers, improved in-game trade systems and multiple advertising venues are far more useful and effective at imporving game play and fun than (yet another) nerf bat.


Fivo Asia

Message Edited by Cafa on 01-20-2005 08:15 PM



- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

MadeEvil
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:18 pm
#58

Well cafa we are not all like you...

People can still compete just not at the volume that you do.


they can make 100 guns you can make 15000 guns



- Elmer
Ybagi
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:36 pm
#59






Cafa wrote:


150 lots that are my toons.



LMAO


SWG OWNS YOU!!!!!





Yv
Undead Warrior
Alchemist
Malganis Server
World of Warcraft
Cafa
Thu Jan 20, 2005 9:42 pm
#60



But Elmer, you miss my point. It is not to laud my family's number of toons. There are MANY people that play this game with 12 characters to themselves (alone) and pay other people to grind them to padawan.


As to what they do with their money, I never ask. But they have far more credits than me.


What I am trying to put across is that anyone has the ability to compete now, even without cross-lots, through developing relationships in-game where trust is built up enough to use free lots for whatever exchange or intent. IMO, that is both what the game was supposed to promote and yet the nerf bat would kill that community development by any means I can see plausible.


Geez, Elmer, you made a city where people put you on admin to take care of their structures, I believe. Didn't you manage anyof the houses placed on Talus you managed to keep the arrangement of that city?


That would have never been possible with this lovely nerf bat that magically solves cross-lots, IMO.


Just for you Elmer: I started this game with one character that my son purchased for me, and I did pretty good with my businesses when I just had one character and a guild to back me. My desire to expand that success led to the purchase of another copy of SWG because I wanted to experience another side of the game without losing my ability to be a TKM/Doc, and Fivo was born. I didn't intend for the game to get this popular as a central family activity but most of my familybecame enthralled by different aspects of the game. Every toon in the collection (except Cafa and Fivo) represent family members of the real world. Now that two of the kids are in college and one is off on other things there are only three members of my family that play regularly. But we keep everyone's toons active and have strived to create communities and businesses within the game. We could be our own guild but choose to try for loftier goals.


Central to the coordniation and community aspects of any crafting communities is the sharing of lots. No sharing = no coordination activities. I think that's important enough not to nerf. Many here seem to think destroying those gains, those communities doesn't matter as long as they correct some perceived problem they cannot even provide a single statistic as to being a game problem. How many things have been destroyed in this game with the darn nerf bat? Quite a few, IMO. Nerfing should not be the first choice of a central game function.


Fivo Asia

Message Edited by Cafa on 01-20-2005 09:02 PM



- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

Cafa
Thu Jan 20, 2005 10:05 pm
#61






Ybagi wrote:





Cafa wrote:


150 lots that are my toons.



LMAO


SWG OWNS YOU!!!!!






hehe


I can understand your point, but most of my friends spend more on golf, sailing and travelling on a monthly basis than I do on a year's worth of SWG's subscriptions for8 toons.


Fivo Asia




- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

ZinaTheMaker
Thu Jan 20, 2005 11:40 pm
#62

i posted this in the naritus forums a while back. i do not cross server trade. but this is how i see it:



We play in an economic system that is based on supply and demand.


Example #1:


Loot kits. At first, they were rare. Rug adhesives would fetch 2 million, if not more. 2.5 million for a completed rug was NOT out of the question. Then they switched it so that meatlumps dropped the adhesives. In this case, it is a slighly more complicated matter than just pure supply and demand.


at 2.5 million pre rug, or gong or what have you, that limits the prospective buyers to anyone who can justify spending 2.5 million on a rug that doesn't do anything. the original demand for the rugs was somewhat high, original supplywas low. so with a high demand, and a low supply, the results, of course, were 2.5 million credit rugs. in the case of our server, our economy defined the prices on rugs.and in most cases, the wealthy will more or less dicated the initial offering price.


enter meatlumps dropping adhesives. the supply greatly went up. as a result, the competition between potential "rug sellers" increased inorder to move merchandise, and inorder to undrecut each other, the price lowered. what was once rare, is now common. but in lowering the price, the demand, in this case, probably increased. the increase here occured because:


  • at 500k or under per completed rug, the market for potential buyers increased. 500k vs 2.5 million is a big difference.

so in this example, the price lowered as a result of the supply increasing, and at the same time the demand increased because the item was



  1. desireable
  2. affordable

Cross-server Lot Trades:


Some people say that cross server lot trades have hurt the game. In a sense, yes, because they have made manufactured items much more common. But i would argue they are actually good for the game, for the game's economy and for the players.



  • Less competition among crafters to buy resources, because the supply of the resources is vastly increased

this simple fundemental is beneficial to 99% of the server. not every crafter buys resources, but a large majority of us do. a crafter's prices begin at the source, and the source in this case, is resources.


Without Lot Trades:


low supply of resources, means crafters have to fight over the lots of resourcesamongst each other. in this case, it is pure demand. the demand exceeds the supply and as a result, the price raises. when the rich buy every lot, then, what you have, is the rich producing the best goods, frankly because they have the best resources. this does not do a lot for the part time crafter. their good(s) will be viewed as inferior if they do not have the resources to keep up with the richer crafter. the richwill have a somewhat monopoly on their trade, and they will always, and i repeat, always, beable to pay top dollar for resources/enhancements for their wares, often at the expense of others. when the rich can produce a product that noone else can match, then they can charge a premium for their good because, it IS the best.


With Lot trades...


but with lot trades, the resources are now so much more abundant, that anyone can acquire the given resources because there is always going to be a lot going around. because of the abundance, which in this case, is a high supply, the price will go down of resources. again, this is the heart of a crafter, his/her resources. and when you lower the initial price to produce, the price of the end product lowers. now, take this into consideration. with more able to afford/acquire the top resources, the rich aren't going to be the only ones producing the "best products". by allowing anyone to craft the "best", competition is created, which results, in players undercutting each other to get business.


One Variable:


Choice: One of the major variables is that of "choice". Without lot trades, if a 3 great spawns comes up, then a player, or miner for that matter, must "choose" which spawn(s) to mine. With 10 lots, that player may choose to split 3/3/4, maybe 5/5 and not mine one, or maybe put all 10 on one resource. Regardless, the player must choose and will not get as many units as he/she would if he/she had say...10 or 20 more lots. The direct result is that crafter did not meet their quota, and must find a way to subsidize the quota. In most instances, this means going to the open market and paying someone else for the resource. and without lot trades, there may not be a high supply, as miners and other players will have probably had to make the same choices.


Obviously there are a ton of other variables which can directly and indirectly effect the above scenerios. But i think you should get the basics of the system.


Summary:


Don't ask why i posted this info. For many, its fundemental. But for some, its interesting to get a look into the crafting industry. many players have never ventured down that line and are not all too familair with the processes we go thru daily.


There are items in this game right now that in 3 or 4 months will be worth considerably more than they are now. The reason? The supply is going to go down, and the demand will either stay constant, or increase. But the question begs, what items are those?




Zina
Best served chilled
seline
Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:03 am
#63

Sorry from all but I don't buy it makes everything cheaper.


Let's say you have a static field of harvester. You pay those 100K a week, This field does not have materials you need always, but for not loosing it you pay it anyway. At end of week, you think to yourself "I paid 100K and walked every 30 harvester by myself" this needed a lot of work, so I call my price 100K per item.


No, sir, no. Just because you can not do detailed math because of "lot" crowd, you can't even math your own price, you just kick a price in. Economy increases in wider. Since someone without math increases prices, rest should increase as well.


eg. Infinity's mostrich chef and with her static harvester fields has triple prices of same quality item. When I talk to another chef, she said this is what costs, this is what you buy because people buy it thinking "expensive = better", no way...


Prices are expensive because YOU want to earn MORE with LESSER effort. There is always demand for quality products, but just because there is demand, telling costs are a lot is just lame...






Hail to my all fellow players.. Time for us has ended.. New Era may not come.. May the Force be with you all.. always..
Account 1 | Account 2 | Account 3 | Account 4 | Account 5 | Account 6
Do you realise how sad to burry R.A of Intrepid (PRE-PUB9 Jedi), S.A of Infinity (POST-PUB9 Jedi) | .. and nameless 18 other living breathing characters?

GrafvonSoden
Fri Jan 21, 2005 10:13 am
#64





Cafa wrote:


I can understand your point, but most of my friends spend more on golf, sailing and travelling on a monthly basis than I do on a year's worth of SWG's subscriptions for8 toons.







Will you be my friend

Diorchas
Sat Jan 22, 2005 10:15 am
#65

How about the devs reinstitute the Miner profession then?


Have it so only Miners can place harvesters larger than personal size. That would reduce the feasibility of cross server swaps greatly, as in order to reap a resource windfall you would have to be a Miner.


There's a lot more I could write about this, but I'm busy at work so I'll leave it for you all to discuss.
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