Business And Economy Archive
Thread: The Unfortunate truth about Credits.*UPDATED*
KlingonUnicorn
Sat Mar 12, 2005 12:41 pm
#66
I find this thread interesting and read just about every reply. I am not going quote or paste from all the different replies here to make my points. I started this game about a month after it was released, I played for over a year and decided to leave quietly and go back to another game because I was disheartened with the game as a whole. I have various reason as to why I was disappointed, but I am not going to state them here in this post. Obviously I came back a few weeks ago and I have been pleasantly surprised at the changes. With that being said..
In my minds eye there is no ecomony in these MMOG's. I have to laugh at how people break down economics in any game I have played. The ecomonics in these games is what you are willing to pay. Period. As in real life I am a bargin shopper and that mentality follows me in the games I play. It's actually taking the time to "shop" around for the bargins. I check the bazaar first and have found some really good things for cheap. I have shopped around at player vendors and have found the same. It all boils down to what you are willing to pay for something. What you think it is worth and how much you have to spend. Just as in real life, you cant write hot checks, you have to have the money in the bank.
To the posters that was saying you -have- to have the buffs, the high end gear and weapons to do anything in this game, No you dont. Maybe for what challenges you, but not everyone is like that. If having millions in the bank and having all the "Uber" stuff gets you off..then so be it..its how you play the game. Kudo's to you. 
I have 2 characters on different servers. Both were master dancers (and very poor) and I enjoyed that part of the game until the jedi grind came and the cantina's became flooded with AFK bots just grinding for the profession and moved on. It ruined the game for me and that aspect of the game that I enjoyed and why I became a dancer. So I decided to do something about it and try something different. Both of my characters are pistoleer's so I can hunt with friends and see other places and be able to survive if I get ganked by aggressive mobs. Anyways..I decided to make a chef. I was poor and struggled through the whole grinding process of this profession. I had friends that helped if I needed resources to grind on they would leave them for me, if they found good quality stuff I would save it for when I started to make things to sell. I did almost everything on my own. I had help in various areas, but as far as credits goes, I worked for it. I did missions to keep my harvestors going for the next week to keep my houses maintained to store my stuff and I would buy grinding resources if they were affordable to keep me going if I had ran out before my harvestors could pull up more for me. It was a job to get through this profession. Surveying to find resources, checking harvestors and grinding for that next box and then taking time out to do what missions I could get on my own to make some credits to last a few days to maintain what I -needed- to keep going.
I did not have "uber" armor or weapons (I still dont have uber gear). I had mabari armor when I hunted. I had a FWG5 Featherweight pistol. No skill or armor attatchements, no buffs. Just what I had for my own HAM and a good supply of stim b's. A friend that is a BE made me a attack kitty to help me out when I -needed- it. She was a good kitty and protected me when I needed her. I used her only when I needed to hunt to make my credits. Mind you during this time I didnt even have my own box vendor yet in the merchant line. I sold various things on the bazaar that I felt others could use that I would not and that made a little money on the side for me. Other than that missions were my life to survive.
Sure I -wanted- the crafters apron, but I didnt have 500k to 1 million credits to afford it, I -wanted- the skill tapes as well...but..I couldnt afford them. So I worked with what I had on my own and it didnt stop me from playing the game nor going up the chef line. Even now with the skill tapes and attatchments that I might want or need for my character that cost out of the roof..I am not willing to pay..I hope to find them on my own. Its not a game breaking thing if I dont have these things to play.
Friends and guildmates are wonderous people in these games. I couldnt afford a food factory, but they allowed me to use theirs to start making crates of things I could do to sell on the bazaar. They would make me my little armor for free so I could do my hunts and gave me a crate of the FWG5's so I wouldnt have to look for weapons if I need one. Some made me admin on their houses and gave me a room to store resources so I wouldnt have to put up more houses to maintain as I was running out of room to store things. We would do group hunts for harvesting meats and things when someone found a good quality so I would have that in stock to make whatever. I owe alot to them for the little things they did to help me keep going. The things I wanted I would save up for or figure out a way to get it on my own. I refused to pay the prices that people wanted for them. Thats the break down of the ecomony folks...Its what your willing to pay.
Would I have gotten as far as I did without the help I had? Sure I would have figured out how to do it, how to manage my time and resources and what all I needed to do, but it was great that I had help to a point. Even if you are alone, it can be done. It took me 6 months to master chef because I had to do what I needed to do to get there. Now once I got there, I didnt have the tapes for extra points. I couldnt afford the BE crates to enhance the brandy or foods I wanted to make so what was I to do? Well I made crates and crates of brandy. None of it was BE enhanced. I couldnt advertise on the map for my vendor, so my only resource was the bazaar ( I -love- the bazaar! Its such a wonderful thing to have!). I looked on it..saw all the uber brandy that sells for 6k. So at first I thought I didnt stand a chance against all these chefs that could make things that players wanted. But I took a chance and put my brandy up for sale on the bazaar. It was +206/40 minutes/7 to 9 doses. Not that great, but it was the best I could do as a master without the enhancements. So I took a crate and broke it down and sold each drink for 1200 credits each. You have 25 slots on the bazaar so the crate was perfect to do this. I had 25 chances to sell something. I would do this every friday afternoon to give the players on the weekend a supply. I would put my waypoint for my little vendor in the details and would have crates of this brandy selling for 30k each.
In all honesty...I didnt think I would get very far with this at all. I had started planning on what profession I might try next, but I was going to give it some time and see what happens. To my surprise I logged back on Sunday evening and every brandy I had on the bazaar sold. I sat here stunned for a moment as I went through my emails and I had orders from people wanting more, my vendor was sold out and holy cow I had money in the bank! I didnt sell out to people buying me out to resell, I paid attention to who's name were on the emails and how much they bought. This gave me a little boost and so I made more, did the same thing Friday evening and made sure my vendor was stocked. All sold by sunday.
This gave me some breathing room to do other things in the game. I didnt have to worry about maintaining harvestors or my houses as much now. I had some credits in my pocket to keep going for a while.
Not all crafters are rich. I was far from rich, but I had what I needed and what I was willing to pay for if I needed something. If I wasnt willing to pay the price I found a way to get it on my own. I wanted a medium house to display things, it wasnt for storage it was for show and to make me feel like I had a home in the game. It was a -want- not a needed thing and I saved to be able to buy this house. I do enjoy decorating and looking around at what others create and see if I can do it as well. I became a Imperial just for the loot things I could do on my own like the Emperor's Retreat and the quest for the Endor painting. I am not a PvP person and this was a challenge to do without getting ganked by players. I found ways to achieve what I wanted without the millions in the bank. I made friends that helped me along as well and I did alot of things on my own. I did not do the Solo Groups, I was my own solo group and did my little 3 to 5k missions, I did not buy doctor buffs nor look for that uber weapon or armor.
With time you do achieve things and its a great feeling to train in Master and know you did it all on your own (no macro's..I did it all by hand) and that players were buying my products even if they were inferior to the other chefs. I felt I was providing a service to those like me who could only get what they needed and could afford. It worked.
By the time I cancelled my account my chef had made 1.6 million credits. Not alot compared to the millions that people have now in the game and what things sell for, but I did it all on my own. I am still very proud at what I achieved with that character.
I am back to playing the game but I did not go back to my chef character. I went back to the orginal character I started and she is still a master dancer and last night I finally made it to Master Pistoleer. I know some are thinking.."Big Deal" but its a big deal for me and I still do the things I did with my chef character. I find ways to get what I need and work for the things I want.
I am enjoying the game again, enjoying the changes they have done for the GCW to where I can be in my faction and play in the war without being ganked by real life people or griefed by them. That was the biggest thing that caused me to leave the game. I like that I have choices now and I am able to -work- for the things I want out of it now. I am enjoying space as well now. Its hilariously fun and I am still a noob at it all but having a blast learning and figuring things out.
If you want all the uber things out of the game..well..work for it. Dont buy it and complain how much things are when your looking for them. Find out where it is and go get it! Oh wait your saying you need the uber gear and weapons and buffs to get it? My suggestion is..do your missions, save your credits and take a day and just go shopping around. You'd be suprised at what you might find on some unknown vendor out in the middle of no where.
I have 80% resist composite armor. I paid 5k for each piece. Its what I was willing to pay and it gives me the protection I need to do the bigger things. I love the armorsmith who does the armor. He has armor for all types and different scales of prices. He has the uber armor and the 5k armor I buy. As long as he is playing the game and keep producing he will always have my business. Same thing with my weapons. Its not impossible. Doctor Buffs..I get them from time to time and 12 to 15k for 6 buffs really isnt that bad. Take into account the time for gathering the resources, putting them together and the time the PERSON behind the keyboard is giving to do the buffs, its worth the credits for. When I need them..I get them. Its not a everyday thing.
Its funny how people want everything handed to them in a game. I do not understand this. Isnt part of the adventure just finding what your wanting and achieving things? Well it is for me..I've made a point to not make this game a -grind- I did the grind thing in Everquest and I just dont wanna do that anymore. I want to be able to live in the Star Wars Universe when I log into the game to escape what is going on around me. Its too bad others dont as well and expect us all to be powergamer grinders and wanting all the uber things to see the end game. I never saw the end game in Everquest..and if I never see it in this game..oh well..as long as I have fun and enjoy my time and do what I want to do..that is all that matters.
There is no ecomony in this game..its what your willing to pay that makes it what it is.
And that is my 2 credits worth on this. Not sure if I made good points or not, but this is my view on things and how I go about to achieve goals in the game. Not everything is about the uber end all to the game. Not everyone is rich even after playing for a long whileand not everyone is willing to pay the crazy prices that people come up with. So instead of complaining about it, just don't buy it. Take the time to look around and find it cheaper!
AraDanBynobi
Sat Mar 12, 2005 1:59 pm
#67
Good posts, good thread from all. I agree that the economy is technically not broken, but the mentality of most of the players is certainly in need of a rework, which I believe will get a gear shift during the CURB. And perhaps through that weening period throughout the year.
I am speaking from a non-hardcore, in fact non-player for the last two months, AND a have-not kinda player perspective.
I enjoy SWG the most when I am in a group or providing a role to others. I remember the orginal BETA well, because unfortunately that was when I had the most fun in SWG (apart from a few fun RP sessions) we had to group to see certain Mobs and grouping meant we could be diverse and share the experience. The lack of need for groups thanks to everyone being greedy and buffing, then subsequently soloing everything for credits was what, for the most part, ruined the game for me.
Sure, I want a cool DE-10 (as a pistoleer) and I would love to have a AV-21 and the best of everything, but not at the expense of time. To me, its WORK not FUN to have to grind out more then a few missions in a row. I guess personally I have come to the point where I am saying, where's the fun? The economy isn't really the thing that has ruined that prospect of fun, its more lack of interactions and immersion that ruined it for me.
Star Wars should be about finding a group of people, taking on a grand quest to save the galaxy, or your small part of it, and roleplaying your part in the adventure. It should be about filling a niche not the FOTM, and actually needing other players to get by on the tough missions/quests. This 'one-player-does-all' is really just the wrong way to play, its not the economy, its the whole system.
Imagine how you would play if all armour was basically the same, just looked different, and all weapons just did there logical damages and weren't all that much more impressive then each other when compared. Everyone would be extremely well varied in there style and eclectic in almost everyway. The CURB sounds like it will do this on some level. All things being equal, diversity will thrive.
Wanting grouping and variety to come back to the game soon...
Ara-dan
I am speaking from a non-hardcore, in fact non-player for the last two months, AND a have-not kinda player perspective.
I enjoy SWG the most when I am in a group or providing a role to others. I remember the orginal BETA well, because unfortunately that was when I had the most fun in SWG (apart from a few fun RP sessions) we had to group to see certain Mobs and grouping meant we could be diverse and share the experience. The lack of need for groups thanks to everyone being greedy and buffing, then subsequently soloing everything for credits was what, for the most part, ruined the game for me.
Sure, I want a cool DE-10 (as a pistoleer) and I would love to have a AV-21 and the best of everything, but not at the expense of time. To me, its WORK not FUN to have to grind out more then a few missions in a row. I guess personally I have come to the point where I am saying, where's the fun? The economy isn't really the thing that has ruined that prospect of fun, its more lack of interactions and immersion that ruined it for me.
Star Wars should be about finding a group of people, taking on a grand quest to save the galaxy, or your small part of it, and roleplaying your part in the adventure. It should be about filling a niche not the FOTM, and actually needing other players to get by on the tough missions/quests. This 'one-player-does-all' is really just the wrong way to play, its not the economy, its the whole system.
Imagine how you would play if all armour was basically the same, just looked different, and all weapons just did there logical damages and weren't all that much more impressive then each other when compared. Everyone would be extremely well varied in there style and eclectic in almost everyway. The CURB sounds like it will do this on some level. All things being equal, diversity will thrive.
Wanting grouping and variety to come back to the game soon...
Ara-dan
WiseBobo
Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:45 am
#68
bluejanus wrote:
bluejanus wrote:
Perhaps your not being able to understand how people can play without buffs or armor is because you don't understand how other people can have different playing styles.
But I do think you have a point about character development. However, character development doesn't mean you have to have the best of everything. The best of everything generally costs a lot and I think it should. So does the basis of a broken economy mean that your average avatar can't afford the best of everything? If every player could afford the best and every player kicked butt, what's the point of playing? What you mentioned about character development is key here. There has be some end game to your playing style, something to work towards. If the best of everything were easily attainable, character development wouldn't be challenging or fun. Your efforts wouldn't mean anything, since every other player had the best of everything at the same time. Time is the critical factor in this game, it all depends on when you have such and such item. For some of the whiners, they would prefer it to be soon or right now. They're frustrated by the slow character development and would prefer things to go a lot easier for them. Seriously, how much fun would the pvp or pve folks have if every player looted legendary equipment every day. That competition you spoke is how you show progress - that you're "winning". It sucks not being able to afford the best and sure it'd be nice to have that great weapon/armor/food/ship/magic missile/hocus pocus. Work for it.
When I speak of playing without buffs or armor, I am obviously not referring to your politicians, and your crafters, and your musicians. I myself would consider that more of a sidenote in the game as opposed to actually *playing* it, but that is just me. Some have fun raising taxes and sitting in Cantinas, chatting up a storm. Sure I like to run my mouth, but to me, that's not what I want to do in game.
I never said that the "best of everything" should be available to all players, and nor do I think it should. As a combat character develops up from the ground, updgrading gear and attaining the next "level" if you will is a near constant goal. Now this is exactly where the economy comes into play, and thusly so, the flow rate of credits. Currently if you ask me, the economic state of SWG, or just on my server, is rather lopsided. It is entirely composed of those who have absolutely enormous sums of credits, and those who have very little, for the foothold of the market has already been taken up. Now, this is where it gets tricky, and if you ask me, where the equilibrium [good movie by the way]is lost.
Whenever I walk up to a mission terminal, whether it Imperial, "normal", and whatnot, the sums of money are rather low. Lets say in this scenario that the award is 7k, it's a small rebel base, and it is 2,000m away. It takes me roughly 10 minutes to run a single mission of this type. I go there, kill all the rebels, destroy the base, get my reward, as well as my faction bonus, and I'm done. Now, if I had been a doctor, and I had a line of 5 or so clients, in nearly the same amount of time, I could have made 700% more credits. Now, what I am trying to say is I don't feel the doctors are being unfair, for they are doing what they are supposed to do, helping people like me be able to do whatever missions I take on, but you must think of how these outrageous prices came to be.
Earlier today outside of the Coronet Starport, I heard a player talking about selling a DE-10. A very nice pistol as we all know, and a great addition to any Master Pistoleer/Bounty Hunter's arsenal. What was the going price? 10 million. Another spoke of it as if that were nothing, and if memory serves me right, he had no less than five of them. If I feel upgrading my character via armor, pistols, and skill blocks, and I am only making 7k a mission, should I be expected to not be able to do so because people with x amount of credits can pay this enormous prices, and I cannot? The fact of the matter is that I cannot afford to upgrade my character without going beyond as what I define as fun. As of right now, I cannot go out and solo a nightsister, or even a force mystic, let alone a Kray Dragon, and "reap" the benefit of doing so. I can't do this because A) I lack the overall skill and template bonuses, B) Because my availability of credits limits what armor and weapons I am able to purchase, and finally, C) I cannot get my skill and template bonuses because I lack the ability to grind effeciently without the said armor and weapons. Even if I complete my skill sets and my BH/Pistoleer Template, I am still going to have to kill a high-end PC to get a wad of credits, but I will not be able to because I lack the credits to purchase a high-end weapon and good enough armor. It is a completely circular loop.
broombug
Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:48 am
#69
I agree with the original poster about needs vs wants. Its 100% right on. The game is what you make of it.But I must admit I have a lot of "wants" in this game. And inflation is high. I am a chef and I solda lotof food before I had the money to buyall thetapes to my +2 suit. Most of the tapes were given tome by guildies wantingfood in trade.I decorated a house and received a AV-21 powerplant as payment. I traded food and resources for armor, harvestors, factories, loot, ect. I got good deals on BE additives because I provided the resources myself. So, although I have a lot of credits in the bank, I still find ways to trade for things instead of throwing credits around. When I go on my shopping sprees, its to find good deals. I refuse to pay top dollar. If I have to have it, and its too expensive,I send a /tell to the merchant and work out a deal (or not depending on the merchant). To my guildies I am very generous with my time and services, and I always repay a favor with a favor. In return, I find I spend very few credits for most of my "wants" and "needs". But this is oneof amillion play styles and it does require a lot of time. I guess my point is, working around the inflationis just asfun and challenging for me as figuring out how tosolo a kimo with no buffs and armor. 
Matisse
Tavtrin
Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:54 am
#70
D8alus wrote:
And you miss my point. You don't NEED to play this game....period. So as far as WANT vs NEED. EVERYTHING IS WANT.
I believe the needs he was referring to were what you need to access/participate competively inthe majority of the content in the game.
Crafters don't NEED 20mil credits in the bank.
Actually a crafter may need to spend 10 or 15 mil on a rare resource to create the best weapons/armor can really need such high amounts of credits available tokeep a successful large business running. Now the richest people aren't only the crafters, that is only a misconception made and passed on by lazy fighters who want to pretend its hard for them to get money. And even if crafters were all of the richest players, it takes much much more work to make money crafting then fighting. I have done both, and getting money fighting is much much much easier. Some of the richest people are the fighters who kill animals for resources, or loot. It is so amazingly easy to get money in this game that I don't really see how a fighter can play and not make enough(butsome people manage to). I've probably played 10 hours in the last 4 weeks at the most, and yet I have made at least2 mil. Do I grind missions? Do I camp loot spots? Do I have uber gear? Do I do anything 99% of elite combat profession master couldn't do? Nope, all I do is kill high end creatures for the challenge. Many of them drop things crafters will buy. I am not foolish enough to offer items to vendors without asking, as that would be rude and pretty stupid. Instead I either email the crafters I know in advance and see who gives me the best offer. I then sell it to them, if a friend doesn't want it.
For you to tell me that I don't NEED something in a game that I PAY A MONTHLY FEE for is so incredibly selfish and just plain ignorant that it makes me sick.
It is not selfish, look up the word selfish and then try and figure out what it has to do with the people you are accusing. And if anything ina game or about a game ever makes you sick, I would advise unplugging your computer and throwing it out the window. Because caring that much about it is unhealthy for most people.
You don't pay any more than I do (and I'll wager I paid MORE because I'm one of the dumbasses that paid $80 for the CE back at release) so why should YOU get to decide how I get to have fun in the game? Don't give me any "good enough" crap.
No one else is deciding how you play, you can play however you want to. It seems that you are accusing others of being greedy and trying to tell them how to play.
I hate this game's economy and I have just as much right to say it's broken as you do to tell me that I don't NEED the good items.
Well for whatever reason you hate it and think it's broken, it certainly doesn't seem to apply to me. I can easily play 1 hour a week and make a huge profit doing basically any mid to high level fighting.
But while we're talking about virtual NEED, consider this: To do ANYTHING other than low-end missions, you NEED a doc and ent buff, you NEED composite armor, you NEED high end weapons....without those, you're reduced to hunting torturs and snorbals.
You don't need an ent buff, I can fight nightsisters without ent buffs and I am by no means uber. Food definitely helps though if you don't have mind buffs, and migrating stats also helps a lot. And high end weapons aren't needed a good non enhanced weapon will do the job. But your right about composite, it helps a lot although ubese protects against many creatures almost as well and is cheaper.
You can't take on 20k and 200k ham troops with a measly <1k HAM and bone armor. It just doesn't happen.
Your right so to kill those 20k and 200k ham mobs it is important to first tackle lower level mobs and learn how to fight(learn to do obvious things such as intimidate) and gain enough money to buy composite and a weapon and some buff money.
So stop trying to justify being greedy.
Greedy you say? Well let's see what I did today that was greedy. I put 100s of items up on my vendor for only 200 creds each, no. I gave a newb 2 mil, no thats not greedy either. I tried to give away my imperial uniform, no that wasn't greedy. I complained on the forums about crafters who put effort into making money getting money, while I put no real effort into getting money and got none that is really greedy. But it was you who did it.
Message Edited by D8alus on 03-13-2005 02:32 AM
D8alus
Sun Mar 13, 2005 1:30 pm
#71
Phaelyn wrote:
D8alus wrote:
NONE of what you said answers the one question I have.
WHY are the prices so high? WHY should I have to pay so much for something that costs so little to make?
As far as WANT vs NEED, everything in this game is WANT. So that completely invalidates 90% of your argument. Now that we've established that nobody NEEDS anything in this game, how do you intend to address the problem of overpriced crap?
Actually, my statements are not invalidated in any way. People NEED weapons in order to join PvE combat - Sure, they can use their trusty CDEF - But then they would never move up to the next level of game content, and so on ad nauseum. Crafters NEED resoures in order to craft. Musincians and Dancers NEED customers in order to get XP. The game is indeed full of needs - That's why it's difficult to know the difference between what is needed and what is merely wanted.
As far as prices - You are speaking of your specific server - I can't begin to speak to the prices on Eclipse, as I don't know the,. I can speak of Radiant however - Nothing on Radiant is beyond the means of a few hours work. I hear other servers charge up to a million credits for 40% Stun armor.. I can get it for 250k on Radiant. The examples can go on and on.
The easiest answer is to of course do it yourself. It's not a popular argument - But it IS true. Don't like what you pay for Armor? Become an Armorsmith, and fight fire with fire. Or just do it long enough to make yourself enough armor to last your virtual lifetime.
The BEST way to not pay high prices is to... Not pay high prices. I'm not sure if they exist on Eclipse, because again, I am not ON Eclipse. But I AM on Radiant, Bria and Flurry. And I see high priced stuff all over - And then turn around and find a vendor with the exact same items MUCH lower. Maybe I'm more willing to shop around than others - But I always find what I want at a price I am willing to pay eventually.
And you miss my point. You don't NEED to play this game....period. So as far as WANT vs NEED. EVERYTHING IS WANT.
Crafters don't NEED 20mil credits in the bank.
For you to tell me that I don't NEED something in a game that I PAY A MONTHLY FEE for is so incredibly selfish and just plain ignorant that it makes me sick. You don't pay any more than I do (and I'll wager I paid MORE because I'm one of the dumbasses that paid $80 for the CE back at release) so why should YOU get to decide how I get to have fun in the game? Don't give me any "good enough" crap. I hate this game's economy and I have just as much right to say it's broken as you do to tell me that I don't NEED the good items.
But while we're talking about virtual NEED, consider this: To do ANYTHING other than low-end missions, you NEED a doc and ent buff, you NEED composite armor, you NEED high end weapons....without those, you're reduced to hunting torturs and snorbals. You can't take on 20k and 200k ham troops with a measly <1k HAM and bone armor. It just doesn't happen. So stop trying to justify being greedy.
Message Edited by D8alus on 03-13-2005 02:32 AM
weaponmaster88
Sun Mar 13, 2005 2:49 pm
#72
falllacy wrote:
is crafting a choice, too? if so, you can choose to get all the tapes necessary for your profession..or you can choose to craft and not sell anything. LOL not everyone in the world is a 12pt. uber smith... i'm a 10pt with decent resources, some i bought some i mined. i've spent a good amount of money to buy krayt tissues just because i can, but i have sold over 12million credits in gernades after spending only about 1mil in resources. and i am only a 10pt smith.... so YES IT IS A CHOICE.
Giamai
Sun Mar 13, 2005 3:02 pm
#73
weaponmaster88 wrote:
falllacy wrote:
is crafting a choice, too? if so, you can choose to get all the tapes necessary for your profession..or you can choose to craft and not sell anything. LOL not everyone in the world is a 12pt. uber smith... i'm a 10pt with decent resources, some i bought some i mined. i've spent a good amount of money to buy krayt tissues just because i can, but i have sold over 12million credits in gernades after spending only about 1mil in resources. and i am only a 10pt smith.... so YES IT IS A CHOICE.
i'll agree that a 10 point smith with fabulous resources can easily outdo a 12 point smith with lesser ones, however, and this may be server specific, customers unaware of the specifics of crafting only know what they have heard. i make far more money, on unenhanced items no less, as a 12 point simply because there are people who know i'm a 12 point smith. For me, it was less a choice, and more about allowing me to be competitive on a crowded server with a pretty tight weapons market which is much harder to do as a 10 point smith.
basically, spending tons of money on tapes is the single best advertising in the game.
bluejanus
Sun Mar 13, 2005 5:33 pm
#74
WiseBobo wrote:
bluejanus wrote:
bluejanus wrote:
Perhaps ...Work for it.
When I speak of playing without buffs or armor, I am obviously not referring to your politicians, and your crafters, and your musicians. I myself would consider that more of a sidenote in the game as opposed to actually *playing* it, but that is just me. Some have fun raising taxes and sitting in Cantinas, chatting up a storm. Sure I like to run my mouth, but to me, that's not what I want to do in game.
I never said that the "best of everything" should be available to all players, and nor do I think it should. As a combat character develops up from the ground, updgrading gear and attaining the next "level" if you will is a near constant goal. Now this is exactly where the economy comes into play, and thusly so, the flow rate of credits. Currently if you ask me, the economic state of SWG, or just on my server, is rather lopsided. It is entirely composed of those who have absolutely enormous sums of credits, and those who have very little, for the foothold of the market has already been taken up. Now, this is where it gets tricky, and if you ask me, where the equilibrium [good movie by the way]is lost.
Whenever I walk up to a mission terminal, whether it Imperial, "normal", and whatnot, the sums of money are rather low. Lets say in this scenario that the award is 7k, it's a small rebel base, and it is 2,000m away. It takes me roughly 10 minutes to run a single mission of this type. I go there, kill all the rebels, destroy the base, get my reward, as well as my faction bonus, and I'm done. Now, if I had been a doctor, and I had a line of 5 or so clients, in nearly the same amount of time, I could have made 700% more credits. Now, what I am trying to say is I don't feel the doctors are being unfair, for they are doing what they are supposed to do, helping people like me be able to do whatever missions I take on, but you must think of how these outrageous prices came to be.
Earlier today outside of the Coronet Starport, I heard a player talking about selling a DE-10. A very nice pistol as we all know, and a great addition to any Master Pistoleer/Bounty Hunter's arsenal. What was the going price? 10 million. Another spoke of it as if that were nothing, and if memory serves me right, he had no less than five of them. If I feel upgrading my character via armor, pistols, and skill blocks, and I am only making 7k a mission, should I be expected to not be able to do so because people with x amount of credits can pay this enormous prices, and I cannot? The fact of the matter is that I cannot afford to upgrade my character without going beyond as what I define as fun. As of right now, I cannot go out and solo a nightsister, or even a force mystic, let alone a Kray Dragon, and "reap" the benefit of doing so. I can't do this because A) I lack the overall skill and template bonuses, B) Because my availability of credits limits what armor and weapons I am able to purchase, and finally, C) I cannot get my skill and template bonuses because I lack the ability to grind effeciently without the said armor and weapons. Even if I complete my skill sets and my BH/Pistoleer Template, I am still going to have to kill a high-end PC to get a wad of credits, but I will not be able to because I lack the credits to purchase a high-end weapon and good enough armor. It is a completely circular loop.
I wasn't talking about the non-combat types either. While you're not going to be soloing most of the high end combat without armor and buffs, it doesn't mean you can't do combat without them either.
I have a lot of credits myself. But it's taken me a good amount of time and effort to amass what I have. I started out like everyone else. While I had some friends in-game to start with for a while I was basically playing paycheck to paycheck so to speak. How does one afford anything expensive? You have to budget, make some sacrifices and save your money. What's the problem with your expectations? How quickly do you want to be able to get all the great equipment/loot?
Deadtech
Sun Mar 13, 2005 7:06 pm
#75
Falllacy wrote :
sorry, you lost all credibility about two sentences in...armor and buffs voluntary?
sure, if you want to not play the game. perhaps sit in the starport. or kill kreetles.
The fact is, to experience any of the high end content, you need armor, you need buffs, you need good weapons.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Have you ever seen about 35 people take out a Gorax with cdef's, no armor and most of em unbuffed. Check the ranger forums for pics of The Great Ranger Meet #6
bluejanus
Sun Mar 13, 2005 8:32 pm
#76
Deadtech wrote:
Falllacy wrote :
sorry, you lost all credibility about two sentences in...armor and buffs voluntary?
sure, if you want to not play the game. perhaps sit in the starport. or kill kreetles.
The fact is, to experience any of the high end content, you need armor, you need buffs, you need good weapons.
____________________________________________________________________________________________
Have you ever seen about 35 people take out a Gorax with cdef's, no armor and most of em unbuffed. Check the ranger forums for pics of The Great Ranger Meet #6
Wow, people did that? I've heard stories about people trying to do high end combat with cdefs, but I hadn't heard of such things except in stories told about beta and the start of the game.
Zadokk
Mon Mar 14, 2005 4:41 am
#77
I think this whole attitude stems from laziness. Player X can't be arsed to work hard and earn his credits and feels it should be handed out to him. I am horrified by the amount of times that the devs have yielded to the calls of the lazy people in this game. I get sense of worth when I can sit back after a few hours in game and realise that I've earned that skill box or those creds, or that new piece of gear that I spent it on. Just yesterday I went out, did some work and came back home with enough xp to get three skill boxes in three different professions - that gave me a great sense of achievement. I gave up looting a while back, I just didn't think it was worth spending 3 hours looking around for an NPC that in the end yields nothing but 2000 creds.
KOLBROOKIE
Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:05 am
#78
lol i agree here as well sorry and all, but im a total ranged mbh and i need to buy every thing in pvp
to fight any good againt jedi /i get a mission for 150k at the most when you complete the mission but most of the time i lose money more than make it ,
/its pvp i need the best stuff but im broke all the time
/been made outcast from the guilds for hunting there jedi,
/imp or rebel ,
/so now im bored of mbh missions and jedi are just no fun when they all exploit etc etc
/but when its 1v1 what a buzz
/so now im a junk dealer in spacelmao
/just to get cash to fight jedi ,food i need every type and pixie muon gold,weapons cost me a fortune ,so ive got to fight with crap weapons cos the good ones cost 50 - 200 million and the armour well dont even go there,
/armour for bh is so hard to find never mind the mando which is impossiable to get unless you got freinds with 20 jedi and the rest
but been mbh no one like your play sytle because you hunt jedi for a liveing
/
/and last but not lease what do i hunt for good stuff when every thing is being camped day and night
and its been like this for ages
for a ranged mbh
to fight any good againt jedi /i get a mission for 150k at the most when you complete the mission but most of the time i lose money more than make it ,
/its pvp i need the best stuff but im broke all the time
/been made outcast from the guilds for hunting there jedi,
/imp or rebel ,
/so now im bored of mbh missions and jedi are just no fun when they all exploit etc etc
/but when its 1v1 what a buzz
/so now im a junk dealer in space
lmao /just to get cash to fight jedi ,food i need every type and pixie muon gold,weapons cost me a fortune ,so ive got to fight with crap weapons cos the good ones cost 50 - 200 million and the armour well dont even go there,
/armour for bh is so hard to find never mind the mando which is impossiable to get unless you got freinds with 20 jedi and the rest
but been mbh no one like your play sytle because you hunt jedi for a liveing /
/and last but not lease what do i hunt for good stuff when every thing is being camped day and night
and its been like this for ages
for a ranged mbh
Message Edited by KOLBROOKIE on 03-14-2005 08:08 AM