Business And Economy Archive
Thread: The Unfortunate truth about Credits.*UPDATED*
Tinkergirl wrote:
I think my 'problem' is that people see anything lower than the most powerful MOBs and/or 'dungeons' as not challenging.
I see it as all relative.
If I only have Novice Marksman, what I find challenging will be quite different to what a Master Pikeman finds challenging.
Challenge, to me, is what's fun.
At any level, buffed or not, I should be able to find challenge, find fun, and get the satisfaction from a fight well fought.
I agree that if someone wants to loot a dozen crystals in a couple of hours, then they'll have to pull out all the stops (and their virtual wallet).
I also agree that 'the best' is available to only the very few - or it's not the best.
But to me, the game is about fun. It's about challenge. It's about risk.
I don't need to be the best for that, and I don't need to pay 'best' prices for it.
Great post.
Message Edited by NiomiMoonstar on 03-11-2005 05:01 PM
Myth #1: "I can't afford all I need". well in your own words, pvp does require stuff you can't necessarily afford. unless you wish to die very quickly you must compete with the enemy. this is not really a myth. what it does is give you a reason to be scrounging for cash...if pvp is your goal. Creating a goal in game by definition creates the NEED, it is no longer a want. therefore saying i don't have the money for what i need to be successful in pvp is a completely valid statement.
Myth #2: "I can't get a +20 Attachment without Millions in the bank". again back to what your goals are, it may well be that you do need it to acheive those goals. and with endless macro'd looters taking over all the static spawns, you can either pay millions or attempt to compete. one takes significantly less time than the other. a second example is, i wish to be the best WS on the server...well you won't manage that without 12 point since this is an example of a goal where everyone else's perceptions are what matter and 12 point changes people's perceptions of your crafting dramatically. most dedicated crafters probably have to pay even their friends for something for the rarest of tapes even if it isn't market value.
Myth #3: "Doctors are over-charging us on Buffs" hmm prices vary from server to server and yet everyone is buffed. the price cant' be too high if the doc still has customers so have to agree with you on this one lol
Myth #4: "I can't make money as a fighter now that there are no Solo Groups" yeah have to agree with you here too. even if i do break down and do missions for a buff period i'm doing just fine
Myth #5: "Crafters are the only rich people in the game, and they do it by charging too much" I don't believe this one is even a myth anymore for most people. the fact is that the wealthiest people in the game (on the servers i play on anyways) are NOT crafters...they sell attachments/loot or resources. loot h00r is the best paying profession in the game imo, not even close to being a myth
Giamai wrote:
as with everything, its all in the perceptions. i don't necessarily agree with you but i may have different goals in game than you.
but with that sad, my 2 overinflated credits
Myth #1: "I can't afford all I need". well in your own words, pvp does require stuff you can't necessarily afford. unless you wish to die very quickly you must compete with the enemy. this is not really a myth. what it does is give you a reason to be scrounging for cash...if pvp is your goal. Creating a goal in game by definition creates the NEED, it is no longer a want. therefore saying i don't have the money for what i need to be successful in pvp is a completely valid statement.
PvP however is NOT forced upon people. You must actively choose to PvP, making it a player created need- Saying you don't have the credits to PvP is indeed a valid statement, but the game can be played entirely without PvP, hence it still staying a Want as opposed to a Need.
Myth #2: "I can't get a +20 Attachment without Millions in the bank". again back to what your goals are, it may well be that you do need it to acheive those goals. and with endless macro'd looters taking over all the static spawns, you can either pay millions or attempt to compete. one takes significantly less time than the other. a second example is, i wish to be the best WS on the server...well you won't manage that without 12 point since this is an example of a goal where everyone else's perceptions are what matter and 12 point changes people's perceptions of your crafting dramatically. most dedicated crafters probably have to pay even their friends for something for the rarest of tapes even if it isn't market value.
From experience, I did just fine as a 10 point weaponsmith. I knew I didn't make the same damage and condition as a 12 point - SO I priced my goods accordingly. Actually ended up making more money as a 10 point than I did as an 11, then 12 point. Notice that your own statements use terms such as "Either, or" and "I wish to.." - Are those not choices you are making? You are deciding that you wish to accomplish something, and create the Need - The Need is there because you Want it to be.
Myth #3: "Doctors are over-charging us on Buffs" hmm prices vary from server to server and yet everyone is buffed. the price cant' be too high if the doc still has customers so have to agree with you on this one lol
Myth #4: "I can't make money as a fighter now that there are no Solo Groups" yeah have to agree with you here too. even if i do break down and do missions for a buff period i'm doing just fine
Myth #5: "Crafters are the only rich people in the game, and they do it by charging too much" I don't believe this one is even a myth anymore for most people. the fact is that the wealthiest people in the game (on the servers i play on anyways) are NOT crafters...they sell attachments/loot or resources. loot h00r is the best paying profession in the game imo, not even close to being a myth
115% true - Loot IS the mega rich player nowadays.
D8alus wrote:
NONE of what you said answers the one question I have.
WHY are the prices so high? WHY should I have to pay so much for something that costs so little to make?
As far as WANT vs NEED, everything in this game is WANT. So that completely invalidates 90% of your argument. Now that we've established that nobody NEEDS anything in this game, how do you intend to address the problem of overpriced crap?
Actually, my statements are not invalidated in any way. People NEED weapons in order to join PvE combat - Sure, they can use their trusty CDEF - But then they would never move up to the next level of game content, and so on ad nauseum. Crafters NEED resoures in order to craft. Musincians and Dancers NEED customers in order to get XP. The game is indeed full of needs - That's why it's difficult to know the difference between what is needed and what is merely wanted.
As far as prices - You are speaking of your specific server - I can't begin to speak to the prices on Eclipse, as I don't know the,. I can speak of Radiant however - Nothing on Radiant is beyond the means of a few hours work. I hear other servers charge up to a million credits for 40% Stun armor.. I can get it for 250k on Radiant. The examples can go on and on.
The easiest answer is to of course do it yourself. It's not a popular argument - But it IS true. Don't like what you pay for Armor? Become an Armorsmith, and fight fire with fire. Or just do it long enough to make yourself enough armor to last your virtual lifetime.
The BEST way to not pay high prices is to... Not pay high prices. I'm not sure if they exist on Eclipse, because again, I am not ON Eclipse. But I AM on Radiant, Bria and Flurry. And I see high priced stuff all over - And then turn around and find a vendor with the exact same items MUCH lower. Maybe I'm more willing to shop around than others - But I always find what I want at a price I am willing to pay eventually.
PvP however is NOT forced upon people. You must actively choose to PvP, making it a player created need- Saying you don't have the credits to PvP is indeed a valid statement, but the game can be played entirely without PvP, hence it still staying a Want as opposed to a Need.
this is actually the crux of the matter...defining want versus need. for the myth to hold true, it must be true for all. i don't believe it is although i did agree with other parts of your post
irl i need food, i want steak. i can get sufficient nutrition frommany foods cheaper than steak thus it is a want and not a need.
in the game on the other hand, it is a matter of are you getting the most of what you can to truly enjoy the game. yes it is about choices but choices create needs from wants. if you can't get what you perceive you need to enjoy the game, you cancel your subscription.
yes you can play the game without pvp but for some the game is boring without pvp so what you need to be reasonable in pvp is a need, not a want. this isn't about choices per se, my needs may be your wants and vice versa...i can choose to play the game anyway i want as we all can, but if there is a huge entry fee keeping you from enjoying the game then it is by definition a necessity because without it, you quit.
As said previously, SWG, as with all MMO's, is composed of players who have, and those who do not. To advance in Star Wars Galaxies, and JTL, with any kind of seriousness and to truly have fun, you need to be able to expand your character, and by this I mean getting that next great weapon, the next great armor, and so forth. Now, what I myself cannot understand are the persons arguing how you don't need armour, or buffs, or stims; that mindset I have yet to fully understand. In order to truly appreciate the aspects of SWG more fully, that is going around "exploring" those "other" planets besides Tatooine, armor, stims, buffs, and decent weapons are a must. I must honestly state that in my mind, no one playing this game can truly enjoy SWG simply killing those little frog things, gubburs, grubbers, bah, for their entire account life. Without character development on a competitive basis, whether it be against the NPC's and animals found throughout SWG, or PVP, I feel that no one could have any fun without the things I myself regard as an absolute need. I scoff at the notion that a player could advance, on a pace somewhat reasonable, with absolutely no buffs, no food/drinks/stims, very little-to-no armor, and CDEF, and still have fun.
falllacy wrote:You need food. you need swoops.And pvp, for many people, isn't a 'choice'..it's an integral part of the star wars universe.
First off I have to give the original poster a 5 Star for that very well written post.
Second, to falllacy, As I can see from your Registration date you are a veteran and have been playing since July '03. You DO NOT NEED SWOOPS. Do you not remeber walking everywhere?
Another thing about pvp, IT IS A CHOICE. By you clicking the "enroll to faction" button you made a choice. The consequences of that choice are pvp. If you don't want to PvP go and click the "Resign button". You dont need to be a faction. If your a crafter or a pve person why even bother enrolling into the faction rebel or imperial. If you are going to whine about how expensive it is or how you don't want ot get jumped the Resign button is always there.
Message Edited by Diaso on 03-11-2005 10:20 PM
WiseBobo wrote:
I am going to have to agree to disagree with the thread starter on this one.
As said previously, SWG, as with all MMO's, is composed of players who have, and those who do not. To advance in Star Wars Galaxies, and JTL, with any kind of seriousness and to truly have fun, you need to be able to expand your character, and by this I mean getting that next great weapon, the next great armor, and so forth. Now, what I myself cannot understand are the persons arguing how you don't need armour, or buffs, or stims; that mindset I have yet to fully understand. In order to truly appreciate the aspects of SWG more fully, that is going around "exploring" those "other" planets besides Tatooine, armor, stims, buffs, and decent weapons are a must. I must honestly state that in my mind, no one playing this game can truly enjoy SWG simply killing those little frog things, gubburs, grubbers, bah, for their entire account life. Without character development on a competitive basis, whether it be against the NPC's and animals found throughout SWG, or PVP, I feel that no one could have any fun without the things I myself regard as an absolute need. I scoff at the notion that a player could advance, on a pace somewhat reasonable, with absolutely no buffs, no food/drinks/stims, very little-to-no armor, and CDEF, and still have fun.
Giamai wrote:
PvP however is NOT forced upon people. You must actively choose to PvP, making it a player created need- Saying you don't have the credits to PvP is indeed a valid statement, but the game can be played entirely without PvP, hence it still staying a Want as opposed to a Need.
this is actually the crux of the matter...defining want versus need. for the myth to hold true, it must be true for all. i don't believe it is although i did agree with other parts of your post
irl i need food, i want steak. i can get sufficient nutrition frommany foods cheaper than steak thus it is a want and not a need.
in the game on the other hand, it is a matter of are you getting the most of what you can to truly enjoy the game. yes it is about choices but choices create needs from wants. if you can't get what you perceive you need to enjoy the game, you cancel your subscription.
yes you can play the game without pvp but for some the game is boring without pvp so what you need to be reasonable in pvp is a need, not a want. this isn't about choices per se, my needs may be your wants and vice versa...i can choose to play the game anyway i want as we all can, but if there is a huge entry fee keeping you from enjoying the game then it is by definition a necessity because without it, you quit.
Yes, you are correct - But again, as I have pointed out to others in the past, the reason for NEEDING all of the Foodstuffs, Armor and Buffs stem not from a broken economt, but from a broken Combat system. It is unfair to categorize the economy as the culprit - If PvP IS the "End Game" as many are saying, and the combat system requires all the items that equate to "God Mode" - Perhaps the system is flawed. That is the reason these items are so expensive - They have been made necessary (which really does NOT mean needed) for the ability to compete in the selfsame "end game".
I have a feeling that once the CU/RB hits, people will not be relying on these items for PvP any longer - Instead, they will be needed for PvE, as with balanced Combat comes balanced PvP - Leaving "God Mode" relegated for high end PvE content such as Nightsisters and Krayt Dragons.
WiseBobo wrote:
...I feel that no one could have any fun without the things I myself regard as an absolute need. I scoff at the notion that a player could advance, on a pace somewhat reasonable, with absolutely no buffs, no food/drinks/stims, very little-to-no armor, and CDEF, and still have fun.
I am the living embodiment of your disbelief. *laughs*
I am having fun, lots of it. I do not buff, wear armour (99.99% of the time, and never composite), drink brandy or any chef foods. I use no weapon that a plain old Master Weaponsmith could make, and at the moment a non-Master could satisfy my weapon needs, if only I could find one
I've never mastered a profession with the character I'm playing - hadn't felt the need to.
And yes, I go out and kill gubbers, crazed durnis and the rest of the creatures you won't even look at. I collect some hides, milk some critters, sometimes sell it, sometimes not. It doesn't matter. No pressure, few outlays and slow, relaxed progression through the skill boxes.
It's my fun.