Business And Economy Archive

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PoetDancer wrote:

Sounds like a lot of players. The new gentleman bringing the initial thread not being one of them.

Because how can we lie to this person and say that he is the one who doesn't want to "work for it," when we have players that equally don't want to work for it, either? I see them every day outside the major cities gaining experience whilst unattended, or even in some of the POIs unattended as well.

And I know of several players who don't use their ranger abilities to make money. They simply harvest things for their guild, and get payment in kind. Sometimes the ranger and the armoursmith are on such good terms, the ranger won't even ask for payment in kind....that is of course if the player controls both characters. Indeed, one doesn't need to be a ranger at all to gain ranger abilities. One only needs a droid.

And I can see several players daily who want it all, but are unwilling to put in the meager effort to advance. In fact, scratch that. Getting a mastery of a profession, income loots, and success is very meager these days to the point of being senseless. Just get another account, or get your friends in a guild to set one up with the equipment one needs, set a macro at a static spawn, and mastery and the tools for economic success can be achieved without much real effort at all.

And I disagree that one needs friends to succeed in this game. One can buy friends for the price of software and subscription fees. And the good thing about the friends one buys in this manner is that they can do exactly what one needs them to do for us, without any sort of self-interested motivation. As a mayor, I'm sure it is a rather convenient thing to buy a dancer/musician friend for $35.95 and $15 a month. Negotiating with oneself is a rather easy negotiation.

And these players who create an insulated and self-sustaining "protection racket" with their multiple accounts made their choice to invest all this real world money into creating the economic benefits they do. And they are living with the consequences....living quite well, it seems. Because I would argue that those who are in this thread explaining to xplan4u that he is wanting "gimmie levers," I would venture to say, have "gimmie levers" themselves that they are loathe to give up.

So if you are looking for a game experience that values hard work, fun, and truly living a Star Wars fantasy, xplan4u, you are in the wrong place. Its not about those things here. Its about multiple accounts, shrewd manipulations of in-game systems, and throwing the spirit of the game out the window for the sake of creating stable "gimmie levers" that puts you above the player unwilling to do those things.

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 02-22-2005 03:27 PM

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 02-22-2005 03:31 PM

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Then how do you account for players like me - Who have one account, limited playing time, don't use AFK measures - And still find the game fun, challenging, and rewarding? I don't have "gimme levers" - Far from it. yes, i am what I suppose other players would call "comfortable" - I am neither in game rich nor in game poor. And it's due primarily through what you say isn't a possibility - In game friends. I am in a guild. We share the play experience, we share the rewards earned. That alone to ME makes my $15 every month worthwhile. The hunting, attacking MOBs, etc are just icing on the cake.

Certainly, there are those who are exactly as you describe. But they aren't the issue at stake here. The issue was Quest based Weaponry and Armor. Certainly not a bad idea, but IMO, out of place in this particular game. The system was designed to make players inter-dependant upon each other. And for the most part, it works. Oh, there ARE multi-accounters out there whose sole pleasure is the acquisition of credits and/or loots. Them I feel sorry for, because without exception, they have limited their type of gameplay. I have not, and I am enriched by my experiences.

Reading your response makes me wonder why you continue to play this game. If you are that disheartened and cynical, why haven't you moved on? Is it possible you have made friends with others in game? Is it possible that despite your vitriol, you actually like the game?

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PoetDancer wrote:

I account for you, Phael'yn, the same way I account for myself. We are trying to make the game work as best we can, enjoying it for what it is, and optimistic for what it could be. The only difference between us in terms of what we do in the game is that you share PA tags with your friends, and I do notsharePA tags with my friends, since I am not in a PA. But I think we are a lot more similar than different. We put effort into the game, and put effort into being immersive. And we take pride in our accomplishments, because they are ours, and we have earned them.

The one thing I would add is that we also not the minority in the game - We are the majority of players. It is the "few" who have louder real world monetary voices that throw the balance out.

But it seems players like you, I, and even xplan4u have to work so much harder to make the game work for us, since there are so many players out there that are ready and willing to put more effort into fast tracking things, and making it not work. That is what I think is essential in xplan4u's post. Not the specifics of gaining items without paying for them.

However, i do not see the possibilities as being non-existant. Some poeple in other threads have used words such as "Impossible" or "Unable" to get ahead in the game due to the vocal minority as mentioned above. While we can all agree it is difficult - It is not impossible. As I've said before, I feel pity for our "fast tracking" brethren, because they are missing many of the nuances in the game. By not stopping to smell the roses, they have missed great amounts of content, and have limited their gameplay. I fully believe that when it comes down to the wire, players like us will always be here far longer than those who fast track - Because we see the game for what it IS, and what it can be.

Because if it were about that, then xplan4u has the ideal situation he wants right now. The most rare and sought after weapons and items in this game are not player generated, they are loot generated. Some are only partly loot generated, such as Ackly batons and Scythes. Others, and ironically, the most sought after and valuable weapons: the DOTs, are utterly loot generated.

As I read from his post, he was referring to "Base" model weapons being rewarded through a Quest system. While not at all a bad idea, I just can't see how it would be implemented into the game at this stage of it's development. The problem with the weapons above also would compund xplan's problem - He may indeed loot the schematics and needed items - But he still has to entrust to the Weaponsmiths on any server to do him justice in making him a weapon. That is why I suggested to xplan that we already do meet somewhat the requirements he seeks - Just in a different mode. He suggests that he receive a Quest based basic weapon for his profession. I suggest that (At least on my server, I can and will not dare attempt to speak for other servers) for the price of one mission, he can already receive the same weapon through a weaponsmith - Both methods are 1 Mission, 1 weapon - Just 2 differentmechanics are employed.

I do not believe in a loot based economy. The game I was in at launch had basic weapons available at the recruiters for a nominal cost, as well as generated via looting. But the weapons that really set the bar were generated from the steel, wood, bone, and effort on the part of so many miners, weaponsmiths, and merchants. It was wonderful, intriuging, and truly put the effort in the hands of players over the random vagueries of fortune and attempts to powergame. I believe xplan4u would like things a whole lot better back in those days. I certainly did.

I was also too late into the game to miss those halcyon days - They do indeed sound wonderful

But I feel what xplan4u needs is not lectures on why he isn't working hard. Both he, I, and we all I think can agree that the reality of the game does not support the idealistic claims that an individual in it for the fun of the thing can achieve the sort ofsuccess andextreme advantagesome players have on the servers these days. What he needs is advice, understanding, and real in-game examples of what he can do right now to better his circumstance. I applaud those who have done this.

However, make no mistake. I don't think anyone who is truthful with the reality here can say that the rewards in the game have much to do with the spirit of the game, nor does it reward the sorts of things we'd like it to reward to the degree we wish it would. Free markets are wonderful, as they set prices themselves, give individulas incentives to produce exactly what is needed, lead to efficiency, and give producers and consumers a direction.

But free markets can have the opposite effect if there are no limits as to what a producer or consumer can do to gain an advantage. Third world economies can boast a few, highly wealthy, and ambitious elites. They also contain monopolies, a lack of incentivesfor upward mobility, nepotistic tendencies, "selective" applications of justice, and the competitive advantage based not on the desire to be rewarded for individual excellence, but to be rewarded on the basis of one's ability to "exploit the system." Right now, I fear we are giving "first world advice" to xplan4u who does not have the first world protections to ensure a competitive and fair market system.

Unfortunately, that is the only advice I have to give, as I have not been on the receiving end of the above. My experince thus far HAS been self rewarding, and if an obstacle were set in my way, I looked for other avenues around them That is the only good advice I have for xplan - If you are blocked on one avenue, seek another. There ARE people out there who sell for less than the "legendary" crafters, and their items are every bit as good. Not everyone price gouges. It's unfortunate that time and effort must be expended to find these philanthropists - But they can be found - And once you find them - The road gets easier to follow.

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xplan4u wrote:

The game is fantastic, but there is an issue that is bothering me immensely: credits...SWG is a game... games are made for enjoyment

Enjoyment is objective. SWG has the most involved Player Economy of all MMORPG. It is integral to the game and there are a very large number of people who enjoy it.

It is challenging enough to advance through the proffesions, in my opinion

It is challenging to advance through the professions? I could master any profession in a week with a small amount of money. SWG is almost boring with how easy it is.

For example: i want a scythe blade, yet they will cost me anywhere from 500,000 to 5,000,000 credits. Why isn't there a way of EARNING one. Yea,yea, i know about the schematic quest, but that is not enough...

So you did the quest and have the schematic, eh? And you went to a weaponsmith and they said they would make it for 500k to 5,000k? Um, yeah, right. How many weaponsmiths did you talk to to get this outrageous range of prices and did you try to barter?

imagine seeing someone with a Scythe blade and knowing that they earned it through a tough quest. Again i know about the schematic quest, and i have completed it

I would see someone who not only did the quest but also managed the interpersonal quest of negotiating with other players to complete the final task of the quest: Getting it crafted.

As you finish reading this remember the manual that came with the game stated this.........."there is no 1 way to play SWG." BUT, there is only one way to get what you want.................credits credits credits.

I could choose to play SWG as a homeless bum. I'll get some rags and sit around Mos Eisley asking for free handouts. I could make that choice if I wanted too with the objective of just seeing people and maybe saving money so I can go to Coronet to hang out and beg so I can save up to go to Theed and do it. It is a choice I can make with goals I establish for myself.

What you want is objective. If you want to be the pinnacle of success you have to succeed on many levels.

I don't want to "work". I want to advance... i could play the proffesion of my choice, without the consequences of money issues... why should i be forced to get into the credit making part of the game?

This is to me a want for a "Gimme Lever"

You don't want to work. You don't want to use your Ranger abilities to make money. You don't want to negotiate with a weaponsmith. You just want it all for the meager effort it takes to advance. You do not need to make credits to succeed in the game if you make friends. Make your choice and live with the consequences.

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Message Edited by Fidgiter on 02-22-2005 12:13 PM

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xplan4u wrote:

of all of these replys the majority of them have been slaps in the face about not "working hard enough", or wanting everything handed to me. that is why i made the statement about how i HAVE WORKED HARD. but i feel i shouldn't have to get a lesson in economics

You posted on the Business and Economics forum. If you don't want a lesson in Economics it is not the right forum to visit. The Items and Loot forum would likely have been the better forum to state your case. I'm sorry you got smacked around a bit and apologize for my pith response.

but i took that advice. i ran some rebel pilot missions and made some good credits. i went and collected some good hides earlier today, and i am in the process of selling them for a good profit. either one i had no clue about.

Excellent. Once you start to sell it you'll make contacts and it only gets easier from there.

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xplan4u wrote:

i own battlefront. and i will decide whether this game is for me or not. where is everybody getting off saying that i don't want to work?!! i am a master swordsman, master scout, and master medic! so i didn't have to work to get there? not bad for 6 weeks, huh? my problem is that i want to move up the ladder, but i am broke. and f.y.i. I am a little burnt out on hunting from the grinding, so i find it tedious to hunt just for money.

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