Business And Economy Archive
Thread: Pub 23 Inspiration Buffs Negative Impact on Economy
It depends on how we define "interaction." If I am engaging, and amusing, am I not "interactive," if the audience is responsible for the buff as in the passive system?
And by the same token, if I spam that I'll authorize a buff for 2000 credits, I hear the E-Mail beep, take the credits, click on the popup, and forget the patron even exists, does that make me more interactive?
It seems to me that this "semi-active" buffing system doesn't promote interaction. Rather, it gives us excuses not to be interactive.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-26-2005 02:43 AM
Pawlin wrote:
As I understand it right now the inspiration buff requires no interaction at all. Am I wrong about that?
If what you mean by interaction is some sort of command to give players "permission to /watch me for a buff," then you are correct.
The point I am trying to make is that those sorts of active protocols to permit individuals to /watch, or /listen to us are not the sorts of interactions that make cantina work fun, make intuitive sense to the patrons, and nothing that promotes the vibrant and active playing of these classes.
Yes, by being passive, and requiring no "button mashing" to get a buff, you have the potential to have AFK dancers, and musicians. But they do not make good tips. Nor do they need to sequence a process with spam, because they have nothing to do with determining who gets what they go to the cantina to get, and who wastes their time.
In the current system, I as an entertainer have an interest to put forth the effort to amuse from the moment the patron walks in the door, to the moment they leave. Because if I do not, I may get tipped less, or not at all.
But if you have to ask permission from a dancer, or musician in order to get the mechanics, like on TC currently, and you tipthe performerbefore you even start the buff process, what incentive does the dancer or musician really have to put on a good show?
They have no incentive to be interactive to gain income beyond the charge they levy for the menu click. Which changes the intent of the profession entirely. No longer is entertainment the attempt to amuse, but it is the attempt to "sell menu clicks."
The problem though is, what is a menu click really worth? It costs me nothing to give, and it has nothing really to do with how good of a performer I am. Getting paid to issue out menu clicks is a degrading game for me, because nobody has to be entertaining to do it, and nobody has to be interactive to get paid to do it, beyond the simple menu click.
The old entertainer game took skill, because our creative and interpersonal skills were the criteria we were judged upon. But the moment it was in our power to choose who can and cannot /watch, or /listen to us, one entertainer was just aseconomically viableas another of the same level.
That game doesn't help the good entertainers, the live entertainers, and the entertainers that make the cantinas fun. It only helps the dullards, the macroed, the spammers, and the ones that make the cantina dreadful.
If we are paid on the basis of being amusing, the ones who enjoy entertaining, and are good at it will prosper.
But if players only care about getting a menu click, then being a good and skilled entertainer won't matter anymore. The only thing that will matter in the end is if we click the box.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-26-2005 05:45 PM
This change doesn't turn you into mindless button clickers. It gives you a new buff method which AFK folks can't do. It gives younew customers which you didn't see before.
The customers will either value your style or not. That hasn't changed.
Its up to you to win more business from the other ATK entertainers.
Giamai wrote:you don't understand...the definition of quality itself is in questionits a relative thing...if i make slightly better weapons because i have better resources than i can actually say i make a quality product. if my weapons are exactly the same as everyone else's then the only reason people need bother going to me or them is dependent on who has a stocked vendorthere is no longer anything left to make you stand out. this means prices will even out, but that doesn't mean they will go down.consider the plight of the tailor. its already this way. there is no difference between the shirts from one tailor or another with the sole exception of BE clothes.quality itself no longer exists as crafting becomes more and more homogenous. it isn't simply this publish, its the changes that came with the CU and have continuted since then. there is no such thing as a quality product...there is only a product, mine versus yours. no difference.
If this went through, we might as well have had NPC vendors.
Little-Green-Guy wrote:
Mandinga3 wrote:
It will definitely have a negative impact on my rare resource business, If this goes through I'll probably take around a 20 to 30mil hit. There will be virtually no point in the 30k resource kitsand I will have no incentive to pick up my harvesters and move them around, "Static Harvester" lots here I come. I guess we will get those 45.00 crafting stations that our server has been lacking, yippee! Looks like its time to get out of the resource business and grind out that Jedi "Character Unlock"I'vebeen neglecting sincelaunchso Ican be like most of the other cattle out there.I think it's great that Entertainers and Crafters finally got some attention and I hope they get even more attention in the future but there are other things they could do to help them out.Mandinga
i don't think your understanding....now....your third and fourth best resources...should be as pricey as your best resource of each class. you just hit the jackpot.btw, static harvs = exploiting. ...don't give in to it.
Yes, but the less rare a resource is, more people will have it. So the price will not rise. And the value of top end resources will fall.
PoetDancer wrote:
No, these buffs do more harm to the professions than good at the new levels. Because all it really helps are the powergaming hoarders, and their decision to overlook entusiastic lower leveled entertainers in favour of boring master dancers, and master musicians.
Which would you rather tip for? An entusiastic and fun 1% resource buff from a live player? The poor girl is wasting her time, no?
Or a spamming, macro driven 2% resource buff from a player who puts the game on minimize while having the character spam, "buffing 2% here for 2000 cred, PST, bank tips only," and puts the screen up long enough to click on the radial box, and go on minimize again? That's what players would rather have, don't you think? Who really cares about who gives you the buff? As long as its 2%, and the price is right, it seems to me a spammy minimized player is all we really need.
And you'll get it, I'm sure.
Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-25-2005 07:28 PM
Actually I prefer ents I can conversate with. AFK ents are little better than NPCs.
JaxonLuxor wrote:
Giamai wrote:
2% is less damaging overall but it does still present some issues
many of slim's points are still valid
on the plus side for entertainers, it does still mean that the buff is an absolute requirement (for example)
Christ it went from 10% to 2%....As an aspiring Weaponsmith, I liked this change b/c it means that I can compete with the horde of resources that the old time weaponsmiths who have a stranglehold on my server have. More compeition leads to more choices, more choices leads to more aggressive prices, more aggressive prices are best for the consumer.
This change would give people the chance to actually be business people and not just crafters. That is what is missing (at least on my server) from the game.
And what's wrong with being a crafter? I like my game to be somewhat challenging.
Pawlin wrote:
JaxonLuxor wrote:
...
As an aspiring Weaponsmith, I liked this change b/c it means that I can compete with the horde of resources that the old time weaponsmiths who have a stranglehold on my server have.
...
I think that issue is a valid concern. RIght now you have 1 option of using a 30k resource deed but those go for 3M range usually so thats 100 cpu. Other than that if theres a key resource that spawns infrequently or hasn't spawned with the extremely high stats then you're stuck waiting... and waiting and waiting.. which isn't fun.I think it would be better if they increased the frequency of high stat material spawns.I think if we could expect a 990+ level stat spawn every say 4-6 months on average then that would pretty much wipe out the issue of those ancient hordes of uber resources.Cause within 4-6 months someone who's working to collect the best could expect to. And they wouldn't be forever at a disadvantage to someone sitting on a 19 month old spawn of OQ 1000 stuff.
I like the current system actually. Opportunity cost plays a major part of our economy. Because alternatives to resources can't be guaranteed or expected, people have to cope with what is available at whatever the market will bear. People have to choose between settling for something now or waiting till they could get something better/cheaper later.
JaxonLuxor wrote:
Giamai wrote:
2% is less damaging overall but it does still present some issues
many of slim's points are still valid
on the plus side for entertainers, it does still mean that the buff is an absolute requirement (for example)
Christ it went from 10% to 2%....
As an aspiring Weaponsmith, I liked this change b/c it means that I can compete with the horde of resources that the old time weaponsmiths who have a stranglehold on my server have. More compeition leads to more choices, more choices leads to more aggressive prices, more aggressive prices are best for the consumer.
This change would give people the chance to actually be business people and not just crafters. That is what is missing (at least on my server) from the game.
Do you think that long-term crafters are not business people? Do you think they started with hordes of resources? This isn't actually about resource hoarding at all, despite what some might have you believe.
Let's talk about competition. A 10% resource stat increase would have enabled many WS to reach 100% on everything. Competition then, as you quite correctly state, would have turned to price rather than quality. While in the short-term this is beneficial to the consumer in the long run it isn't.
Let's assume a couple of things for a moment, althoughone, the fact that many longer term crafters have stocks of resources, isn't so much an assumption as a gimme. But that's a fact for any long-term crafter. Secondly, and this is an assumption although a widely held belief, all long-term crafters are rich. Competition on prices ensues. A longer term crafter who is determined to gain a largemarket share can produce top quality weapons and can afford to sell them at a loss for a certain period, and even give them away if they are that determined. How does that benefit anyone in the long-term? The newer crafters will soon get disillusioned and give up, no one else will be inclined to enter the market.
Build your business up over time, get yourself a reputation for good service, gather the good resources when they spawn and love your profession. In time you will be renowned server wide and respected. You can't get respect, or a long-termincrease in business, from a quick fix.
I have been a WS and gathering resources for well over a year. I am what you would class as a 'hoarder' but you know what, better resources spawn all the time, I am constantly replacing resources with better ones. The fun comes in using those new resources and seeing how they improve the end product. If I knew that nothing would ever again improve what I can craft now, that I am already at the peak and tumbling down the other side, where's the incentive? Where's the fun?
I wish you luck as a WS, as with any crafting profession that is dependent on resource quality it's a long trip, but once you set out it's not a journey you won't be in a rush to finish.
Crafters in this game, infact all non-combat professions, seem to be a different type of person to your hack and slash combat types. The non-combat professions are what really sets this game apart from other MMOs, despite all its faults. Let's not dive head-long into something there will be no coming back from.
Message Edited by Muzz on 08-28-2005 01:57 AM
Vastar wrote:
I was just wondering if anyone knows, can you self buff? I mean, if I took up novice musician (or whatever the hell), could I give myself a resource buff? That would save me those trips to the cantina which is my main (not only but main) issue.
No, unfortunately it seems not. Would solve a ton of problems if you could, seeing as this buff is now basically obligatory.
bluejanus wrote:
Heh, it's grind ent time.
Yep seems that way. As this buff is obligatory for any serious crafter and finding an ATK Ent is such a pain they're the new FOTM!!
Message Edited by Muzz on 08-28-2005 11:15 PM