Business And Economy Archive

Thread: Pub 23 Inspiration Buffs Negative Impact on Economy

PoetDancer
Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:27 pm
#27



No, these buffs do more harm to the professions than good at the new levels. Because all it really helps are the powergaming hoarders, and their decision to overlook entusiastic lower leveled entertainers in favour of boring master dancers, and master musicians.


Which would you rather tip for? An entusiastic and fun 1% resource buff from a live player? The poor girl is wasting her time, no?


Or a spamming, macro driven 2% resource buff from a player who puts the game on minimize while having the character spam, "buffing 2% here for 2000 cred, PST, bank tips only," and puts the screen up long enough to click on the radial box, and go on minimize again? That's what players would rather have, don't you think? Who really cares about who gives you the buff? As long as its 2%, and the price is right, it seems to me a spammy minimized player is all we really need.


And you'll get it, I'm sure.

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-25-2005 07:28 PM



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Giamai
Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:36 pm
#28






PoetDancer wrote:



No, these buffs do more harm to the professions than good at the new levels. Because all it really helps are the powergaming hoarders, and their decision to overlook entusiastic lower leveled entertainers in favour of boring master dancers, and master musicians.


Which would you rather tip for? An entusiastic and fun 1% resource buff from a live player? The poor girl is wasting her time, no?


Or a spamming, macro driven 2% resource buff from a player who puts the game on minimize while having the character spam, "buffing 2% here for 2000 cred, PST, bank tips only," and puts the screen up long enough to click on the radial box, and go on minimize again? That's what players would rather have, don't you think? Who really cares about who gives you the buff? As long as its 2%, and the price is right, it seems to me a spammy minimized player is all we really need.


And you'll get it, I'm sure.


Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-25-2005 07:28 PM




i'll probably still keep to my usual policy of no tips to the afk, 5k to those that actually talk to me


but it does mean that entertainers are less superfluous ... not a great fix for them, and a terrible one for crafters, but i'm trying to look at a slightly dimmed bright side





TGiamai Oewai (Elder Jedi without a clue)T
T Giaman Srawhe, 12 pt MWS [GS] Weapons, near Theed -3955, 3322T
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T*Not everyone who wanders is lost...*T
PoetDancer
Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:31 pm
#29

It does more harm to the entertainer professions.


Does one have to be ATK to give these? Perhaps to click on the menu. But a player doesn't have to really be responsible for anything else other than that. And I really don't think that patrons who want these things really care about anything else other than that menu click.


So it seems to me very natural, given everything I have seen in the game, that players are going to automate everything but the menu click. Just set up a spamming ad, put the screen on minimize, perhaps play another character, and only check on the automated character if the E-mail sound comes through, with a fee. Starport buffing doctors before the CU pioneered the technique to an art. And I predict you'll see the same thing in cantinas. Entertainers who don't care about anything but setting a macro, collecting E-Mail fees, and clicking on menus.


Still though, a musician or dancer still has no capacity to "give" a buff. If they could, then patrons wouldn't be required to /watch or /listen for a set time.





Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Pawlin
Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:18 pm
#30

I really don't see how giving entertainers more stuff hurts the professions. Would you prefer not to have more buffs??


If you'd just prefer the buffs are implemented in a more interactive manner then thats another topic and something you could propose to your correspondent and the DEVs.





Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
PoetDancer
Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:02 pm
#31


I was always an advocate of transparency, and passivity as far as mechanics distribution. It seems to only make sense, and encourages vibrant cantinas.


I have made numerous posts trying to explain why the entertainment classes were designed like they were at launch. Frankly, it makes very little intuitive sense that a player can watch a dance, yet not be able to "/watch" a dance, without a command to "grant permission." It also compromises the ability for patrons to receive the mechanics, and performers to give the mechanics.


But nobody seems interested in that. It seems we'd rather have some means by which we can objectively prove that we do something important, so players would tip us. Unfortunately, by doing so, we also give every bad, annoying, spammy, and semi-attendedentertainer a means by which they can objectively prove that they do something important, so players will tip them.


The problem is, one doesn't have to be entertaining when all entertainment is about is clicking on a box when asked.You don't even need to be a player todo that. In fact, one could probably automate it using the same joystick one uses in JTL.


I have learned that--for better or worse--I have to place my faith in the audience, and my ability to amuse them for the time they are with me. Many performers, however, do not trust theaudience to reward their good work. Many feel that unless they have the ability to individually select who can and cannot /watch, or /listen to them, they'll never get players to tip.


I can't say I blame them. But for me, its rather degrading for me as an entertainer to be paid just to click on an interface window, which has nothing at all to do with "entertainment," or, "being entertaining." I want to earn it. The problem is, what is the point of earning it, when we have the power to force a payment without even having to amuse you at all?

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-25-2005 10:04 PM



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
PoetDancer
Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:03 pm
#32


DOUBLE POST

Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-25-2005 10:03 PM



Madame Sirii Ajaan
August 2003-September 15, 2005
"There is a difference between being /watched and being WATCHED."
Pawlin
Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:56 pm
#33

Well when you really look at it all any of us ever really does is click the right button at the right time in various ways.


But I hear ya. It would be nice if the game mechanics were more engaging and interactive.





Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
Wrathamus
Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:35 am
#34






Bockeroo wrote:
my chef account is already cancelled




now THAT's dramatic.

the reason i love changes like this is because people always have a hissyfit and quit the gamewith huge fanfair and explosions and cursing soe andi wasted my life andmy moneyand this and thatwithout thinking twice about it. then once the change doesnt happen or gets reverted (the xp changes) they come back all quiet and hope noone like menotices them come back to laugh at them and say i told you so.








PoetDancer wrote:



No, these buffs do more harm to the professions than good at the new levels. Because all it really helps are the powergaming hoarders, and their decision to overlook entusiastic lower leveled entertainers in favour of boring master dancers, and master musicians.


Which would you rather tip for? An entusiastic and fun 1% resource buff from a live player? The poor girl is wasting her time, no?


Or a spamming, macro driven 2% resource buff from a player who puts the game on minimize while having the character spam, "buffing 2% here for 2000 cred, PST, bank tips only," and puts the screen up long enough to click on the radial box, and go on minimize again? That's what players would rather have, don't you think? Who really cares about who gives you the buff? As long as its 2%, and the price is right, it seems to me a spammy minimized player is all we really need.


And you'll get it, I'm sure.


Message Edited by PoetDancer on 08-25-2005 07:28 PM




personallyi've never tipped an afk entertainer, and if they have a covercahrge i go elsewhere. however if i find a not afk entertainer that is there honestly trying to entertain people, or even better and rarer, ROLEPLAYING a entertainer, i'll tip them upwards 100k every time every time they buff me. (and that can be 4-5 times a day if i die alot hehe)

Message Edited by Wrathamus on 08-26-2005 10:39 AM

Pawlin
Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:46 am
#35






PoetDancer wrote:


...It seems to me that this "semi-active" buffing system doesn't promote interaction. Rather, it gives us excuses not to be interactive.


And besides that, the new buffs can be AFKed. Just not through the macro system. Is it against the EULA? Perhaps. But the EULA is not there to protect players. They'll just "redefine" the rules to accomodate third party buffbots, just as they "redefined" the EULA to accomodate the macrotainers.

...





As I understand it right now the inspiration buff requires no interaction at all. Am I wrong about that?

So adding some amount of interaction is a step in the right direction. More interaction is good. I don't see how adding this interactive feature to the buff is somehow "doesn't promote interaction"?Semi-interactive promotes interaction more than 0 interaction.



Yes someone could break the rules with a 3rd party program. But thats hardly a reason to complain about the game design. People breaking the rules can ruin anything and everything.


It seems like your bending over backwards to find something to complain about.





Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
Eerif
Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:55 am
#36






Wrathamus wrote:






Bockeroo wrote:
my chef account is already cancelled




now THAT's dramatic.

the reason i love changes like this is because people always have a hissyfit and quit the gamewith huge fanfair and explosions and cursing soe andi wasted my life andmy moneyand this and thatwithout thinking twice about it. then once the change doesnt happen or gets reverted (the xp changes) they come back all quiet and hope noone like menotices them come back to laugh at them and say i told you so.





The real funny thing about the chef account being cancelled is the fact that the buff (aside from Tailors) affected chef the least amount, in fact, it only made things better overall, even at 10%.


Chef, unlike other professions, is always affected by four resource stats, and has four lines of experimentation, thus meaning, it's impossible to get a perfect 100% item unless all of your resources are over 910 OQ/PE/FL and DR (980 in the reduced 2% buff).


This complaining from chefs is just pure BS. If you were a BE, or an AS, heck even an architect, you would have some right to complain. Not a chef, this helps you.



<~| Eerif Runningtide |~>
12 Point Chef
Vendor at (-795, 2851) D
antooine
Eerif Film Productions

JaxonLuxor
Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:17 am
#37






Giamai wrote:

2% is less damaging overall but it does still present some issues


many of slim's points are still valid


on the plus side for entertainers, it does still mean that the buff is an absolute requirement (for example)








Christ it went from 10% to 2%....


As an aspiring Weaponsmith, I liked this change b/c it means that I can compete with the horde of resources that the old time weaponsmiths who have a stranglehold on my server have. More compeition leads to more choices, more choices leads to more aggressive prices, more aggressive prices are best for the consumer.


This change would give people the chance to actually be business people and not just crafters. That is what is missing (at least on my server) from the game.





Jaxon Luxor CL90 Master Bounty Hunter(Old School)
Zaxen Luxor CL 90 Jedi
Zaxxan Luxor Master Weaponsmith
Jaxaen Luxor - Transporter/Smuggler
Help a Trando on the run..visit my vendor just East of Theeds @ -3595 3785.

EdOWar
Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:39 am
#38






JaxonLuxor wrote:


Christ it went from 10% to 2%....


As an aspiring Weaponsmith, I liked this change b/c it means that I can compete with the horde of resources that the old time weaponsmiths who have a stranglehold on my server have. More compeition leads to more choices, more choices leads to more aggressive prices, more aggressive prices are best for the consumer.


This change would give people the chance to actually be business people and not just crafters. That is what is missing (at least on my server) from the game.








A 2% bonus is still better than nothing. A week ago resource buffs weren't even on the radar.


When I started out as a WS I had to compete against established big-name weaponsmiths who had stockpiles of server-best resources (well, server-best at that time). I managed to survive and even thrive, and you will too, with or without resource buffs. How did I manage it? By beinga "business man": location, advertising and specialization (making only pistols)were how I competed until I built up my resource collection enough to be competitive in other types of weapons.


New resources spawn all the time. What's server-best today could be made obsolete tomorrow (made all the more likely with resource buffs). With time and dedication anyone can develop a great resource collection without even having to spend tens of millions of credits.


Smiths leave the game or change professions all the time. On Corbantis, not one single big-name weaponsmith from the beginning of the gameis still a WS today, and virtually all of the second and third generation WS are gone too. When established smiths retire or quit, they create an opening for new up-and-coming smiths to make a name for themselves. In time, those smiths will retire/quit too, creating another opportunity newer smiths.


Slim Vargo, Corbantis

AschMhaRhee
Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:21 pm
#39

Ok time to set some stuff straight....


An entertainer MUST BE ATK to give crafter buffs as they are NOT PASSIVE and can not be macro'd without third party software. PERIOD


Combat 10%xp and 10%fp buffs are still given passively without any interaction from the entertainer. Just watch or listen like we do now.


To get the full 2% buff for resource stat, the entertainer must be at least Novice Musician or Dancer


The power of the buff is not bound to number of elite skills trained but the duration of the buff is. If you are a dabbler,you will give very short buffs compared to a double master.


There is a lot more to the crafter buffs than just the resource helper.. there is also assembly and experimentation success bonuses that are very important to crafters.





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