Business And Economy Archive

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Hurlobacca wrote:

By the way, you are mistaken in what the issue at hand is. Smugglers are asking that Merchants not be able to sell illegal items on their vendors, so really it's the Smugglers trying todictate to another profession and not the other way around.As far as I'm concerned, that's none of the Smugglers' business. Just because I buy a buff from a doctor doesn't mean he should be able to tell me not to go hunt krayts with his buffs. Once the smuggler has sliced a weapon their involvement is over unless they've bought the weapons themselves to sell on their own vendor which they are certainly entitled to do.

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You are mistaken in what the issue at hand is. The issue is "illegal" items are not "illegal". If they were actually illegal, how does it make sense that they are bought and sold the same way you buy food/weapons/armor?

Also, I believe the poll is just to see what the general smuggler feeling is, to guage what kind of change or fix we would like to see. There are many ideas, and we understand that we cannot step on the merchants toes, time and time again we have been shown that all other professions > smuggler.

One idea is that one of the merchant skills opens up some type of 'smuggler associate' abililty, which could allow a smuggler to somehow 'enable' the vendor to sell illegal goods, maybe with some small commission...maybe not.. either way, this allows a chance for more interdependancy and evens adds a bit to merchants in a way that, with the correct skills, does not really change the buying/selling of 'illegal' items, and actually makes the items illegal, which could be the start to actually having/moving contraband for a reason i.e. smuggle.

The point is, we arelooking at ways to satisfy both communities now that we have generated this much commotion over the idea of making illegal items illegal, and what that means to vendors and merchants in general.

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Whiteness wrote:

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Hurlobacca wrote:

By the way, you are mistaken in what the issue at hand is. Smugglers are asking that Merchants not be able to sell illegal items on their vendors, so really it's the Smugglers trying todictate to another profession and not the other way around.As far as I'm concerned, that's none of the Smugglers' business. Just because I buy a buff from a doctor doesn't mean he should be able to tell me not to go hunt krayts with his buffs. Once the smuggler has sliced a weapon their involvement is over unless they've bought the weapons themselves to sell on their own vendor which they are certainly entitled to do.

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You are mistaken in what the issue at hand is. The issue is "illegal" items are not "illegal". If they were actually illegal, how does it make sense that they are bought and sold the same way you buy food/weapons/armor? That's really a smokescreen issue. Smugglers are upset due to a perception that they are somehow left out of the loop whena merchant sells sliced goods even though all sliced goods are already sliced by smugglers.

Also, I believe the poll is just to see what the general smuggler feeling is, to guage what kind of change or fix we would like to see. There are many ideas, and we understand that we cannot step on the merchants toes, time and time again we have been shown that all other professions > smuggler. I agree smugglers are in need of some serious attention. I don't agree with any profession being improved at the expense of another, not when there are alternatives that would really incorporate smuggling.

One idea is that one of the merchant skills opens up some type of 'smuggler associate' abililty, which could allow a smuggler to somehow 'enable' the vendor to sell illegal goods, maybe with some small commission...maybe not.. either way, this allows a chance for more interdependancy and evens adds a bit to merchants in a way that, with the correct skills, does not really change the buying/selling of 'illegal' items, and actually makes the items illegal, which could be the start to actually having/moving contraband for a reason i.e. smuggle. This is a great idea, you must have read one of my other posts Smugglers should also be able to craft the new looted stims instead of them being a loot item. Other things need to be done as well.

The point is, we arelooking at ways to satisfy both communities now that we have generated this much commotion over the idea of making illegal items illegal, and what that means to vendors and merchants in general. Smugglers just need to come to terms with the fact that sliced items are everywhere and everyone uses them. They could make scans more frequent and effective but I don't think players really want that, though we don't mind it happening from time to time.Trying to make them hard to find doesn't really match the direction the game seems to be heading but that doesn't mean we can't give smugglers a role beyond the slicing aspect.

Thanks for the feedback. I've said my piece and am now retiring from this debate.

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What they should do is start a constructive post, on how their profession can be improved, not nerfing sales of sliced armor/sale. At the end of the day if they ban sliced weapons/armor from vendors etc same should be done for smuggler spices and components needed for slicing i.e WUK's AUK's Molecular clamps then they will shafted beyond belief. They can't have it both ways.

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FignarKrynn wrote:
What they should do is start a constructive post, on how their profession can be improved, not nerfing sales of sliced armor/sale. At the end of the day if they ban sliced weapons/armor from vendors etc same should be done for smuggler spices and components needed for slicing i.e WUK's AUK's Molecular clamps then they will shafted beyond belief. They can't have it both ways.

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1. We have pages of constructive posts of how to improve the smuggler profession.

2. We want everthing that is illegal to not be sold as they are currently, this includes spices and slicing tools

3. You are missing the point COMPLETELY

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Whiteness wrote:

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FignarKrynn wrote:
What they should do is start a constructive post, on how their profession can be improved, not nerfing sales of sliced armor/sale. At the end of the day if they ban sliced weapons/armor from vendors etc same should be done for smuggler spices and components needed for slicing i.e WUK's AUK's Molecular clamps then they will shafted beyond belief. They can't have it both ways.

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1. We have pages of constructive posts of how to improve the smuggler profession.

2. We want everthing that is illegal to not be sold as they are currently, this includes spices and slicing tools

3. You are missing the point COMPLETELY

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Infact its you who is missing my point, what you don't realise is alot of smugglers (refering to those on my server) make money from selling items such as molecular clamps, spices (chef revamp hit this very very hard), AUK's, WUK's and offering their services to slice armor in bulk for armorsmiths such as me. Now you outlaw all things related to smuggler how on earth do you expect to make any where near cash you currently do? All you will be left to do is feign death oops you can't even do that now with out being death blowed. I'm all for realism and some element of roleplay but some ideas border on stupidity and lack of thought which this one clearly does. If sliced armor is outlawed it doesn't affect me cause i'll just sell it unsliced but for smugglers its bad as they already got shafted when the chef revamp hit and ruined the sale of muon gold for them.

Simple fact is this may be good for the roleplay aspect for smuggler and realism of the game but for the economic and income based impact it will have on the profession it will render it useless and i don't really want to see that happen. So unless there is some form of compensation for the loss of revenue i think this idea should be forgotten.

Message Edited by FignarKrynn on 02-25-2005 03:49 PM

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FignarKrynn wrote:

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Whiteness wrote:

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FignarKrynn wrote:
What they should do is start a constructive post, on how their profession can be improved, not nerfing sales of sliced armor/sale. At the end of the day if they ban sliced weapons/armor from vendors etc same should be done for smuggler spices and components needed for slicing i.e WUK's AUK's Molecular clamps then they will shafted beyond belief. They can't have it both ways.

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1. We have pages of constructive posts of how to improve the smuggler profession.

2. We want everthing that is illegal to not be sold as they are currently, this includes spices and slicing tools

3. You are missing the point COMPLETELY

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Infact its you who is missing my point, what you don't realise is alot of smugglers (refering to those on my server) make money from selling items such as molecular clamps, spices (chef revamp hit this very very hard), AUK's, WUK's and offering their services to slice armor in bulk for armorsmiths such as me. Now you outlaw all things related to smuggler how on earth do you expect to make any where near cash you currently do? All you will be left to do is feign death oops you can't even do that now with out being death blowed. I'm all for realism and some element of roleplay but some ideas border on stupidity and lack of thought which this one clearly does. If sliced armor is outlawed it doesn't affect me cause i'll just sell it unsliced but for smugglers its bad as they already got shafted when the chef revamp hit and ruined the sale of muon gold for them.

Simple fact is this may be good for the roleplay aspect for smuggler and realism of the game but for the economic and income based impact it will have on the profession it will render it useless and i don't really want to see that happen. So unless there is some form of compensation for the loss of revenue i think this idea should be forgotten.

Message Edited by FignarKrynn on 02-25-2005 03:49 PM

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you're still missing it.

we want to develop ideas that would still allow the sale of sliced items, spices, smuggler tools but in a manner which would keep them illegal.

we COMPLETELY understand that any change to smuggler cannot negatively impact the community in a large way.

The poll is mostly to get an idea of what paths we should look at, and now it looks like we want them to be illegal, the next step, as I said, is to generate ideas that can benefit everyone.

I personally don't care about roleplay, but if nothing is ever actually 'illegal' I will never have any reason to smuggle, that is the plain truth. So, to further repeat myself, and maybe apologize to the nature of my last post, let's generate ideas that can make things illegal, and a way to sell them. There are threads in the smuggler forum and people involved in this like yourself are more than welcome to chime in with ideas.

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MadeEvil wrote:
I hope they get banned.

To me its not about making money..

Its about publicly selling illegal goods.

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Hmm, so these illegal good are illegal for the Rebellion too? Haven't seen too many Rebel probots doing scans.

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CenoKreFey wrote:

I would support the smugglers on this. It detracts from the logic of the game to have "illegal" weapons on public store shelves for sale (the equivalent of having full automatic weapons for sale at Walmart or your corner convenience store). If this was implemented in the beginning as it should have been, this wouldn't be an issue now. But when/if that goes into effect, they should simultaneously allow smugglers to have a choice of what to slice (enc or eff on armor, speed or dmg on weapons) to offset the change.

This is not the correct forum for ideas, but a cool addition for smugglers would be the ability to slice player vendors, to allow them to carry smuggled goods. This would institute another 'maintenance' fee on the vendor (and somewhat more expensive than regular maint, say 2k-5k credits/day). Also, that maint. fee would pay straight into the smuggler's pocket.

I understand the smugglers view as well as merchants, so the best way to handle this is find a middle ground that suits both parties.

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Following the logic that sliced weapons/armor are illegal (since slicing is illegal), technically the tools required to slice should also be illegal, plus anything that a smuggler can sell should never be able to go a vendor or the bazaar. This pretty much leaves smugglers to do their business away from well-patrolled areas like starports, shuttleports, hospitals, and main roads. And of course you wouldn't be able to do it at Imperial cities, the smuggler will set off the mines. The Empire might even start posting smuggler bounties at the bh terminals.

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Whiteness wrote:

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FignarKrynn wrote:

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Whiteness wrote:

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FignarKrynn wrote:
What they should do is start a constructive post, on how their profession can be improved, not nerfing sales of sliced armor/sale. At the end of the day if they ban sliced weapons/armor from vendors etc same should be done for smuggler spices and components needed for slicing i.e WUK's AUK's Molecular clamps then they will shafted beyond belief. They can't have it both ways.

---

1. We have pages of constructive posts of how to improve the smuggler profession.

2. We want everthing that is illegal to not be sold as they are currently, this includes spices and slicing tools

3. You are missing the point COMPLETELY

---

Infact its you who is missing my point, what you don't realise is alot of smugglers (refering to those on my server) make money from selling items such as molecular clamps, spices (chef revamp hit this very very hard), AUK's, WUK's and offering their services to slice armor in bulk for armorsmiths such as me. Now you outlaw all things related to smuggler how on earth do you expect to make any where near cash you currently do? All you will be left to do is feign death oops you can't even do that now with out being death blowed. I'm all for realism and some element of roleplay but some ideas border on stupidity and lack of thought which this one clearly does. If sliced armor is outlawed it doesn't affect me cause i'll just sell it unsliced but for smugglers its bad as they already got shafted when the chef revamp hit and ruined the sale of muon gold for them.

Simple fact is this may be good for the roleplay aspect for smuggler and realism of the game but for the economic and income based impact it will have on the profession it will render it useless and i don't really want to see that happen. So unless there is some form of compensation for the loss of revenue i think this idea should be forgotten.

Message Edited by FignarKrynn on 02-25-2005 03:49 PM

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you're still missing it.

we want to develop ideas that would still allow the sale of sliced items, spices, smuggler tools but in a manner which would keep them illegal.

we COMPLETELY understand that any change to smuggler cannot negatively impact the community in a large way.

The poll is mostly to get an idea of what paths we should look at, and now it looks like we want them to be illegal, the next step, as I said, is to generate ideas that can benefit everyone.

I personally don't care about roleplay, but if nothing is ever actually 'illegal' I will never have any reason to smuggle, that is the plain truth. So, to further repeat myself, and maybe apologize to the nature of my last post, let's generate ideas that can make things illegal, and a way to sell them. There are threads in the smuggler forum and people involved in this like yourself are more than welcome to chime in with ideas.

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Perhaps they should change all the top tier SW designs so that they HAVE to have some smuggler-made sliced items and have security ships/stations scan you. And of course you have devices to counter the effect, let's say a good one works 8 out of 10 times. Or you can hire a smuggler to do a patch job on your ship, so it has a similar effect but a lower success rate, say 7 out of 10 times and only lasts a few jumps to lightspeed.

Speaking of JTL, I was very disappointed that they made SW one class. I was expecting a bodywork crafter, a defense crafter and a ship weaponsmith. Perhaps smugglers can handcreate charged disrupter weapons to cause equipment malfunction for some small amount of time. Or maybe make fake IFF beacons.

I assume some similiar system could be worked in with shuttleport tickets to Imperial/Rebel held territory. How about a smuggler spice that has a 50/50 chance of fooling a scanner? Course with these changes, none of the smuggler items would be able to make it to the vendor/bazaar and you wouldn't be able to put them in bags (you can get the error message, the object won't fit).

Add a significant time delay to slicing. Something crazy like what the ID folks have to deal with.

Smugglers should expect sweeps of cities and player cities. So a factory found making illegal items found within the scanning range of a sweep should be shut down.

Oh yeah get rid of the ADK and use a separate skill to slice in a particular way like damage which will require more tools with say a 70% of failing and getting a terrible slice of something other than what you wanted. But if you succeed, something quite a bit nicer. Oh yeah it would take a little longer than a regular slice.

Increase the scanning range of any trooper/probot scanning and have them call in a shuttle for backup if necessary to eliminate the miscreants.

It's too bad there's no TEF. Sliced terminals should flag you if you opted to use the smuggler payout in the radial (it would of course be higher) instead of the regular payout.

How about a smuggler spice that can somehow hide a Jedi? It would break once it wore off or if a Jedi tried to wield a weapon and then he/she would be frozen for some odd amount of time (of course it would be made for a bunch of resources, including some hard to get like meat and the duration of the effect would be very dependent on quality, unlike the no stat required spices that can currently be made).

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bluejanus wrote:
The Empire might even start posting smuggler bounties at the bh terminals.

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Yeah, us smugglers wish.