Business And Economy Archive

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MikeMonger1 wrote:

One other thing...

If, as you say, the factions should be completely even, then really, who cares if you're imp or reb? The only difference between the two is what ships you can fly in JTL.

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canova wrote:

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MikeMonger1 wrote:

One other thing...

If, as you say, the factions should be completely even, then really, who cares if you're imp or reb? The only difference between the two is what ships you can fly in JTL.

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Rebs and imps should have different armors, should have different weapons, different combat styles, and skills. They should not be unbalanced though, just different. Kinda like in JTL yes, I don't see the problems.

imps and rebs in JTL have different ships and skills. Kinda cool. Imps don't get more money off the rebs ships they kill.

but imps pilots don't have a Imp destroyer pet they can call to help them in dogfight /rofl

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MikeMonger1 wrote:

The thing is, the whole "at-st lets people get higher paying missions" issue really isn't as huge as you claim it is. Have you ever gone to the MO or one of the player cities on Dant, and seen lines of at-st's parked together, while their owners are off doing solo missions and making millions?

The answer to that question is...no.

So, what are these people doing? They're calling the pet, ordering it to group, getting their missions, storing the pet, going out and doing their missions, and repeating.

The extra stepsare the big reason why most imps DON'T do it. It's a pain in the butt.

Yes, I know many who do it, they call the ATST, group with it, pick two missions, then store the ATST, then fly to the mission. Like CH do. And I would do it if that meant I can get 4 to 5 times more cash from the mission.

But even when they do it that way, all that extra time adds up. In other words, you're doing more 12k missions than I'm doing 30k missions. Which means ultimately, IF I'm making more money than you in the same amount of time, it ain't much.

As a master rifle, I can pull 6k faction missions, to max 7-8k missions solo, not even sure, but let's assume it is possible somewhere in a stronghold on a certain planet.

With an ATST you can pull 30/33k missions on dantooine for sure. So yes it is a big difference. You need to spend a much longer time doing missions to make the same amount of money.

You're still clinging to the whole concept of the solo group. It's gone. Get over it. I thought it was a stupid change myself, but it went through. The days of making huge amounts of money quickly doing terminal missions are long gone, with or without an at-st.

And no offense, but if you got killed by an at-st in a PvP match, you did something wrong. They're just not that tough. They have terrible resists and, if you're wearing comp, do next to no damage.

No, was not wrong, stop being so bad fait, my master pistoleer, fencer, desperado hasvery high range defense, max dodge but the ATST would still hit every shot. Taking down an ATST wiht pistols is taking too long and I had to deal with a Player who was about same strengh than me. The ATST's huge accuracy and damage even with a PSG, compo armor and food reducing damage (psg and food finally wore out after a few hits) combined with the states applied to me by the player meant death. I could have escaped but for the fun I still tried to fight as good as I can.

WIth my master rifle / doc I also have trouble soloing ATSTs, cause of the damage they do to mind. I need to break agro and let mind recover at least once (unless I use conceal shot but that is not available in PVP).

it is sad to me that it seems so hard for some players to admit when they benefit of an unfair advantage. I never denied it, myself, when I had an advantage I felt was unfair. Yes I feel the rebels get a better loot than imps, I also feel like it was unfair the way they did decide who won the cried of alderan quest (it should have been according to the proportion of faction players who completed the mission so for example 5 imps out of 10 on server win against 30 rebels if they are 200 on the server) and I admit the faction point we still get for completing this quest should be removed now.

How can one be so self centered that he feels like posting all the bad faith arguments when someone is pointing at some unfair advantage he has. it is sincerely so childish.

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CharPrime wrote:

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canova wrote:

I would like to post a thread to underline something that appears to me to be particularly unfair.

Since solo group were nerfed, it is impossible to earn 30k per mission unless you are using exploits or using your pets if you are a Creature Handler.

I

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what exploit?

you can always go imp

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SeCKSEgai wrote:

While being able to do 30k missions was nice and convenient, it lowered the overall value of credits as so many players were doing them and a huge continuing inflation resulted.

On my server, I did not see any change in the prices of the equipement I need to buy on a regular basis : food crates, armors and weapons.

But there are so many ways to have fun with this game, don't get lost in greed. 10k picket missions should be more than enough to cover your general expenses. Explore the game and all it really has to currently offer, and you too will see why there's no real reason to be unhappy you can't do the boring 30k missions imperials can do if they choose =P

I am not lost in greed, and am not talking about having fun, if I was greedy I'd be camping all the time those POIs for good loot or I would have stocked up enough credits when solo groups were avaialble to be ok for a while. I am mostly a roleplayer and when I headed out to make money by making missions I was really bored. But at least, I could make a decent amount pretty fast, covering the cost of food I needed to solo those missions, and also allowing me not to spend a too large part of my gaming time doing this.

As a matter of fact I am slowly, slowly working on my FS xp... to do that I usually go to hard POIs, or travel through endor. It requires a lot of food (mind, am a twi lek rifleman) and lot of armors. And now it is a pain for me to afford this and keep paying my maintanance etc...

I would not mind suffering this, considering devs intended to do it to lower inflation, but if all players were supposed to abide by the rules. But by allowing the imps to keep getting such benefit, not only is it unfair on a personal standpoint, but it makes it much more unlikely that the inflations will be suppressed. Again, prices remained the same, and it will take longer for them to get down if a certain number of players still can do lot of money easy.

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canova wrote:

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MikeMonger1 wrote:

The thing is, the whole "at-st lets people get higher paying missions" issue really isn't as huge as you claim it is. Have you ever gone to the MO or one of the player cities on Dant, and seen lines of at-st's parked together, while their owners are off doing solo missions and making millions?

The answer to that question is...no.

So, what are these people doing? They're calling the pet, ordering it to group, getting their missions, storing the pet, going out and doing their missions, and repeating.

The extra stepsare the big reason why most imps DON'T do it. It's a pain in the butt.

Yes, I know many who do it, they call the ATST, group with it, pick two missions, then store the ATST, then fly to the mission. Like CH do. And I would do it if that meant I can get 4 to 5 times more cash from the mission.

You need to go to different planets. I can go to Yavin or Endor, and get 12k missions without ANY pets whatsoever. And I'm just master tka. So, you're getting slightly less than 1/2 the mission payout. However, if you're one of the people who actually kills all the critters when you get to the mission waypoint, you're spending much less than 1/2 the time doing each mission. That means that you can doroughly twice the number of missions. In other words, you CAN make almost as much doing 12k missions as you did doing 30k missions in the same amount of time. I know this for a fact. I've done it.

But even when they do it that way, all that extra time adds up. In other words, you're doing more 12k missions than I'm doing 30k missions. Which means ultimately, IF I'm making more money than you in the same amount of time, it ain't much.

As a master rifle, I can pull 6k faction missions, to max 7-8k missions solo, not even sure, but let's assume it is possible somewhere in a stronghold on a certain planet.

With an ATST you can pull 30/33k missions on dantooine for sure. So yes it is a big difference. You need to spend a much longer time doing missions to make the same amount of money.

No. As a master rifle, you can go to Yavin or Endor and pull 12k missions. So no, when you factor in the additional time to call and store the pet, and the fact that 12k mission critters and lairs take literally zero time to kill, as opposed to, say, 15-20 seconds, it really isn't that big a deal. Try going to different planets, instead of clinging to Dantooine.

You're still clinging to the whole concept of the solo group. It's gone. Get over it. I thought it was a stupid change myself, but it went through. The days of making huge amounts of money quickly doing terminal missions are long gone, with or without an at-st.

And no offense, but if you got killed by an at-st in a PvP match, you did something wrong. They're just not that tough. They have terrible resists and, if you're wearing comp, do next to no damage.

No, was not wrong, stop being so bad fait, my master pistoleer, fencer, desperado hasvery high range defense, max dodge but the ATST would still hit every shot. Taking down an ATST wiht pistols is taking too long and I had to deal with a Player who was about same strengh than me.

So, in other words, you didn't get killed by the at-st. An at-st does about 700 points per shot. If you're PvP'ing wearing 90% comp, with the right food and such,that 700 points is reduced to literally nothing. You got killed by not stacking the way you need to when you PvP.

The ATST's huge accuracy and damage even with a PSG, compo armor and food reducing damage (psg and food finally wore out after a few hits) combined with the states applied to me by the player meant death. I could have escaped but for the fun I still tried to fight as good as I can.

See above. If PvP battles with players that hit for 2000-4000 points a shot can be won, the at-st's contribution was negligable.

WIth my master rifle / doc I also have trouble soloing ATSTs, cause of the damage they do to mind. I need to break agro and let mind recover at least once (unless I use conceal shot but that is not available in PVP).

Never fought anat-st myself, but like I said...I've seen them solo'ed quickly3, 4 times. And not bymelee stackers.

it is sad to me that it seems so hard for some players to admit when they benefit of an unfair advantage.

Because whenever someone can do something someone else can't do, it's an "unfair advantage". If you want the soloing capability that an at-st gives, you have the freedom to become imp and get one. If you want the krayt killing ability that the melee stacker has, become a melee stacker. If you want a doc's healing abiliity, go doctor. This game is all about the choices you make. Each choice has advantages and disadvantages. As a reb, your advantage is superior loot. Your disadvantage is you can't get as much from solo missions. But, as has been repeatedly demonstrated, that's not that big a deal, because you can go do MORE 12k missions and make about the same amount of money in the same amount of time. However, you refuse to acknowledge this. You cling to "I want 30k missions too." Hey, I have 2 at-st's, and instead of using them to do fewer 30k missions, I use nothing and do more 12k missions. What does that say?

I never denied it, myself, when I had an advantage I felt was unfair. Yes I feel the rebels get a better loot than imps, I also feel like it was unfair the way they did decide who won the cried of alderan quest (it should have been according to the proportion of faction players who completed the mission so for example 5 imps out of 10 on server win against 30 rebels if they are 200 on the server) and I admit the faction point we still get for completing this quest should be removed now.

How can one be so self centered that he feels like posting all the bad faith arguments when someone is pointing at some unfair advantage he has. it is sincerely so childish.

Bad faith arguments? I've demonstrated repeatedly that, if you want to make the bulk of your money running solo missions, you can still do it, and make almost as much money. That's not bad faith. That's me giving you an alternative. Apparently, it's an alternative you DON'T want. It seems you WANT to deny imps ANY advantage, while keeping all reb advantages (I don't hear you calling to nerf reb loot). It's just a case of the have not's complaining about the have's, when the simple fact is, the have not's can achieve the same things the have's can. They just have to do it differently.

Because the simple fact is, as a tka master, I could do 2 30k mokk/janta missions roughly every5 minutes. However, I can do 4-5 12k endor missions of various critters in about 6 minutes. Do the math. I might be making slightly less, but that slightly less would appear if I were taking the time between mission runs to call, group, and store my at-st, too.

So keep clinging to the false belief that we imps have this HUGE advantage when it comes to making money running solo missions, instead of trying alternatives. Keep crying about how unfair it is that us imps are still making "millions" off of solo missions, while you rebs wallow in poverty. It's not true, but if you and other rebs keep crying about it, then they will eventually kill the LAST use of the at-st. And you'll win.

That's what irritates me the most about your post. You're saying stuff that simply isn't true, but you've chosen not to listen to the reasons why it's not true. Start an alt on another server. Get him up to an elite combat master, become an imp, and get yourself an at-st. Then go and see what happens when you use it to get 30k missions. Then use your current character and do 12k missions, like I've repeatedly suggested you do. Then come back here, and tell me how big the cash difference is.

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MikeMonger1 wrote:

So, in other words, you didn't get killed by the at-st. An at-st does about 700 points per shot. If you're PvP'ing wearing 90% comp, with the right food and such,that 700 points is reduced to literally nothing. You got killed by not stacking the way you need to when you PvP.

No, cause food reducing damage only works for a limited amounts of hits, and it is the same for the psg, before the ADK. Not everyone has an ADK. My template is really cool for PVP, I win a lot, that guy I could have killed him, but the ATST plus him was too much for him. For most templates, including some useful anti / jedis and anti / melee stackers PVP templates, the ATST is a pain in the ass.

See above. If PvP battles with players that hit for 2000-4000 points a shot can be won, the at-st's contribution was negligable.

That guy was not hiting me for so much damage, firstly cause he had low accuracy (he was fighting melee) and also cause alone he would not have managed to destroy my psg and food reducing damage so fast. The ATST made for him the difference between death and life.

He just knew how to use it well, if you do know how to use it well, it is a very good asset in a one on one pvp duel.

WIth my master rifle / doc I also have trouble soloing ATSTs, cause of the damage they do to mind. I need to break agro and let mind recover at least once (unless I use conceal shot but that is not available in PVP).

Never fought anat-st myself, but like I said...I've seen them solo'ed quickly3, 4 times. And not bymelee stackers.

Ihave non looted rifles, as 99,9% of the players, just with a good damage slice, and it takes some time, and I take some damage cause they hit mind a lot. Dealing with it alone near abase isfine. When you need to deal in thesame time with PVP players, it is really a pain.

it is sad to me that it seems so hard for some players to admit when they benefit of an unfair advantage.

Because whenever someone can do something someone else can't do, it's an "unfair advantage". If you want the soloing capability that an at-st gives, you have the freedom to become imp and get one. If you want the krayt killing ability that the melee stacker has, become a melee stacker. If you want a doc's healing abiliity, go doctor. This game is all about the choices you make. Each choice has advantages and disadvantages. As a reb, your advantage is superior loot. Your disadvantage is you can't get as much from solo missions. But, as has been repeatedly demonstrated, that's not that big a deal, because you can go do MORE 12k missions and make about the same amount of money in the same amount of time. However, you refuse to acknowledge this. You cling to "I want 30k missions too." Hey, I have 2 at-st's, and instead of using them to do fewer 30k missions, I use nothing and do more 12k missions. What does that say?

I am sorry but again, i refuse the idea that a choice in terms of faction should grant that kind of benefits in non GCW content. If you spend SP in something, as CH do, yes it is fair to give you access to stuff other skill points do not give access to. That is the basic difference I was making.

It would be obvioulsy unfair if faction mission terminals for rebels would give missions up to 20k or 30k if imp mission terminal would give only max 6-7k.

if that was the case you would be right to say it is unfair, and I would support you.

Also the advantage rebels get in low value painting loot is not as good as the one you get from permanent credit harvester. The only painting we can loot from stormie which is not sold for 1k is the vader one and you get one rarely. In the same time you could have made many many 30k missions.

I never denied it, myself, when I had an advantage I felt was unfair. Yes I feel the rebels get a better loot than imps, I also feel like it was unfair the way they did decide who won the cried of alderan quest (it should have been according to the proportion of faction players who completed the mission so for example 5 imps out of 10 on server win against 30 rebels if they are 200 on the server) and I admit the faction point we still get for completing this quest should be removed now.

How can one be so self centered that he feels like posting all the bad faith arguments when someone is pointing at some unfair advantage he has. it is sincerely so childish.

Bad faith arguments? I've demonstrated repeatedly that, if you want to make the bulk of your money running solo missions, you can still do it, and make almost as much money. That's not bad faith. That's me giving you an alternative. Apparently, it's an alternative you DON'T want. It seems you WANT to deny imps ANY advantage, while keeping all reb advantages (I don't hear you calling to nerf reb loot).

Then read again, I don't deny the advantage we get from looting paintings, and ask my imps friends in game, I always sense it did not make sense rebels would loot vader painting and stormies painting. Rewards painting yes, since they are prolly willing to have them (unlike vader) and should be carried by imps NPCs. I also said I feel it would be fair to remove the alderan bonus etc...

It's just a case of the have not's complaining about the have's, when the simple fact is, the have not's can achieve the same things the have's can. They just have to do it differently.

Because the simple fact is, as a tka master, I could do 2 30k mokk/janta missions roughly every5 minutes. However, I can do 4-5 12k endor missions of various critters in about 6 minutes. Do the math. I might be making slightly less, but that slightly less would appear if I were taking the time between mission runs to call, group, and store my at-st, too.

I will give a try again to your yavin method, and see if I can make good money with it. I will see if it is so much faster, but again in any case, even if about as fast, it also means less xp, so it is still not as good (since I did kill jantas and I won't kill critters, just lairs, if I understood correctly).

So keep clinging to the false belief that we imps have this HUGE advantage when it comes to making money running solo missions, instead of trying alternatives. Keep crying about how unfair it is that us imps are still making "millions" off of solo missions, while you rebs wallow in poverty. It's not true, but if you and other rebs keep crying about it, then they will eventually kill the LAST use of the at-st. And you'll win.

That's what irritates me the most about your post. You're saying stuff that simply isn't true, but you've chosen not to listen to the reasons why it's not true. Start an alt on another server. Get him up to an elite combat master, become an imp, and get yourself an at-st. Then go and see what happens when you use it to get 30k missions. Then use your current character and do 12k missions, like I've repeatedly suggested you do. Then come back here, and tell me how big the cash difference is.

Problem is I don't want to have to go to another server, I don't wan't to grind another profession, I don't want to change my faction. given my profile, rebel rifleman on starsider something was taken of me, and imps still have it... And I still don't see any good reason for it.

Message Edited by canova on 03-30-2005 04:48 PM

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canova wrote:
Ok I will beleive you on the 12k mission on yavin, haven't tried it. So that means that reduces the advantage of 33k/12k, without the xp I got by slaining the 5 to 6 jantas in a few area shots.

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