Business And Economy Archive
Thread: AT-ST unfairness
Greywulf0
Tue Mar 29, 2005 11:43 am
#14
Regardingthe 'unfairness' of being able to use an ATST for high paying mission. Well, we need to have high paying missions if we want to buy the million credit Victory poster that only rebs can get.
I know that you are upset that it seems unfair, but there are only two actions that I can see to fix this, and both have a potential devastating outcome.
1. Re-write the code so that pets do not figure into the mission payouts, nullifying the AT-STs. Consequence: This will hurt CHs, also, since their pets are their weapons.
2. Nerf the AT-STs. Consequence: This will make CHs the only profession that will be able to get the higher paying missions. Exactly how long do you think that will last before other professions start crying, "unfair."
Greywulf0
Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:53 pm
#15
Phaelyn wrote:
Actually, there IS a 3rd way, and it's not as drastic as the other 2 suggestions. Make the AT-ST usable while Special Forces only. Yes, Imperials will still receive the payouts, but with the possibility of their AT-ST coming under Player attack, there would be consequences and danger added to reflect the added payouts.
That doesn't solve the problem of Rebels being unable to get the mission payout. Quite frankly, you also won't put the ATST at much risk, 1) just go to a SF base, 2) summon your ATST and grab your mission there (protected by very powerful spawns), 3) then store your ATST and complete the mission.
Sure, you are vulnerable to attacks by other players, but unless you are a jedi, no real damage will be done.
Edit: Just realized that this only works for imperial missions. So to get other non-imperial missions, just go to your local imperial controled player city on Dantooine.
I did leave another alternative off though:
3. Nerf the 30k missions. Now no one can pull those missions and everyone is equal.
Message Edited by Greywulf0 on 03-29-2005 01:02 PM
Phaelyn
Tue Mar 29, 2005 12:59 pm
#16
Greywulf0 wrote:
Phaelyn wrote:
Actually, there IS a 3rd way, and it's not as drastic as the other 2 suggestions. Make the AT-ST usable while Special Forces only. Yes, Imperials will still receive the payouts, but with the possibility of their AT-ST coming under Player attack, there would be consequences and danger added to reflect the added payouts.
That doesn't solve the problem of Rebels being unable to get the mission payout. Quite frankly, you also won't put the ATST at much risk, 1) just go to a SF base, 2) summon your ATST and grab your mission there (protected by very powerful spawns), 3) then store your ATST and complete the mission.
Sure, you are vulnerable to attacks by other players, but unless you are a jedi, no real damage will be done.
Well, speaking as a former Rebel and ALSO a TKM/Swordsman - Real damage could be done. Trust me 
MikeMonger1
Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:02 pm
#17
One other thing...
If, as you say, the factions should be completely even, then really, who cares if you're imp or reb? The only difference between the two is what ships you can fly in JTL.
MikeMonger1
Tue Mar 29, 2005 2:04 pm
#18
GrayFox9420 wrote:
canova wrote:
The ATST is currently working as a credit harvester and that function should either be nerfed or offered to the other faction.
I agree.
All of the Imperials I know that have an AT-ST have it for this purpose only.
Being a Rebel without an AT-ST to group with, there is no longer a way to make a decent amount of credits quickly as a combat-centric character.
Uh oh. The whole "I can't make money as a combat character without solo groups" argument.
I used to believe that. Until the solo group nerf hit. Then I realized, that while I wasn't getting as much money per mission, I was doing a whole lot MORE missions, because they were so much easier and closer. So, instead of making 1 mil a buff session, I was making 750k a buff session.
Of course, this was mind numbingly dull, so I moved on to other income sources....
LukeBorgman
Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:30 pm
#19
/agree
Faction/GCW perks (of either faction) should not effect mission payouts of non-GCW missions. You're not allowed to use faction perks to attack the non-GCW targets, right? The faction perk should therefore not be considered in boosting mission payout eligibility. Non-GCW targets are not valid for an AT-ST. That's misappropriation of Imperial assets for personal gain (profiteering) and would likely be met with executionby the Empire in a role-playing sense.
It's an implementation oversight that imps can get better payouts on non-GCW missions with AT-STs currently.
Milgram
Tue Mar 29, 2005 4:50 pm
#20
Perhaps i am missing something here. Are you being prevented from going imp? If so, that really sucks man. I think everyone should be able to go imp and get an atst. If you want to solo grind missions for $$$
- Figure out who is forcing you to stay rebel, and beathim or herup (most likely liar liar or fight club style)
- Go imp and kill rebels.You will be amazed at how good it feels.
- Get an atst.
If you have problems doing any of these, this might help you.
Greywulf0
Tue Mar 29, 2005 5:04 pm
#21
/rofl
Milgram wrote:
Perhaps i am missing something here. Are you being prevented from going imp? If so, that really sucks man. I think everyone should be able to go imp and get an atst. If you want to solo grind missions for $$$
- Figure out who is forcing you to stay rebel, and beathim or herup (most likely liar liar or fight club style)
- Go imp and kill rebels.You will be amazed at how good it feels.
- Get an atst.
If you have problems doing any of these, this might help you.
Smart_Darwin
Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:16 pm
#22
So what exactly would rebels get as the equivalent to the chicken-walker? Maybe Rebs can get Ewok logs and ropes as factional pets...
I don't think I wold mind the logs, but ewoks LOOK smelly!
CharPrime
Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:28 pm
#23
canova wrote:
I would like to post a thread to underline something that appears to me to be particularly unfair.
Since solo group were nerfed, it is impossible to earn 30k per mission unless you are using exploits or using your pets if you are a Creature Handler.
I
what exploit?
you can always go imp
Ryche_Mykola
Tue Mar 29, 2005 6:36 pm
#24
How does someone earning more money than you affect your gameplay? I make XXXXX amount per day as an Armorsmith, what impact does that have on you?
Also, whats preventing you from going Imperial and getting your own AT-ST? The sad thing, that is the only thing they are good for, to get more money from missions. You do realize they take a lot of Skill points to get also? Also, if you try to PVP with them, say bye bye to it in about 20 seconds.
When Imperials are given a choice between 1 AT-ST or 1 Stormtrooper, its really a no-brainer. Plus the Imperials are vastly outnumbered, we shouldn't even be having a Civil War.
Greywulf0
Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:06 am
#25
Phaelyn wrote:
Well, speaking as a former Rebel and ALSO a TKM/Swordsman - Real damage could be done. Trust me
I meant lasting damage, such as item decay. I'm not a PvPer, so I could be wrong, but I thought item decay was removed during PvP death.
canova
Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:16 am
#26
mmm please everyone, let's be serious one second, and not too much bad faith.
First I know that the loot imps gets from rebel npcs is crap and i even find ridiculous and not logical at all that the posters of vader is lootable on imps npcs by rebels who should not want it. Now, most of this loot that we get from stormtroopers is usually pretty much crappy : reward poster, you can buy them for 1k on bazaar... and victory posters. I give them to my imps friends when I get a chance... I don't feel like you can put this and the ATST problem on the same level.
I am not trying to ask for a nerf of the ATST on a fighting problem, since I agree it is a cool thing for imps to have, and that there should be differences. Now stop saying it is totally useless. A few weeks ago, my master pistoleer, desperado, fencer was killing stormtroopers overt in an imp outpost, and a jedi came over and declared to fight me. He was not a high level one, I assume, since he would not make me much damage; but at some poin he ran away and called an ATST. I kept trying to fight him, even though he would remain in the ATSTs legs, and that thing ended up killing me.
ATST is still an huge asset to have in some PVP situations, and yes it can be taken down by fast by a squadron of rebel elite fighters but I would not like to have one on my butt on a one on one duel with an imp of about the same level.
The CURB might make it even more valuable if they don't nerf it.
So stop complaning you still have a very cool pet, the only factional pet worth it in game, which allows weak imp combat players (like crafters or entertainers) to get faction points (rebels can't).
I did not even complain about the fighting abilities of the ATST, when I could have asked that rebels be given something different to counterbalance that.
And I totally disagree about the idea that since the Empire is supposed to rule the world they should have tremendous advantage and be overpowered. That is not a movie, where would the fun be if the imps were as strong as in the movie? every one would be imp and you could kill and slaughter dozens of harmless rebels in you ATATs... The challenge for the devs is to create an illusion of imperial domination but preserve a balance in the game. Would you enjoy playing any game with your opponents having a huge advantage on you? in all sports and in all games the opposing parties are balanced. THis is were lies the challenge and the fun. You don't see football teams with unequal numbers of players, you don't see chess games with the white having more queens than the black etc...
But unlike Mikemonger says, I do not say the imps should not have that pet. I just say it is getting extremly unfair that the imps should have a huge advantage even out of the GCW context on neutral and rebel players.
And no, sorry, one player should not HAVE to go imp, change his faction, the roleplay identity and consistency of her toon, to be able to make 3 or 4 times more money than the others.
As to the solution that would nerf CH more, I totally exclude it, cause they have suffered enough nerf and sincerely, I think that this ability to pull higher paying missions is a good reward for the huge investment of barely useful skill points they put into their profession.
I beleive there are other ways to balance this problem. Making the ATST Special Force only is one solution, like Phaelyn suggested... also you could make the ATST work only for a limited period of time. Like X times pulling it out or using it... that way you make an investment in faction points that you need to make worth by hunting a lot with it. You would kinda trade faction points for credits or a significant advantage in little PVP skirmishs.
But sincerely, I noticed that I used to make from 30 to 35k credits per mission in the past. Now I see almost no interest in grouping in terms of cash, since I can pull 6k faction missions, and that is basically the share you now get in group missions.
And again it has nothing to do with the GVW.
First I know that the loot imps gets from rebel npcs is crap and i even find ridiculous and not logical at all that the posters of vader is lootable on imps npcs by rebels who should not want it. Now, most of this loot that we get from stormtroopers is usually pretty much crappy : reward poster, you can buy them for 1k on bazaar... and victory posters. I give them to my imps friends when I get a chance... I don't feel like you can put this and the ATST problem on the same level.
I am not trying to ask for a nerf of the ATST on a fighting problem, since I agree it is a cool thing for imps to have, and that there should be differences. Now stop saying it is totally useless. A few weeks ago, my master pistoleer, desperado, fencer was killing stormtroopers overt in an imp outpost, and a jedi came over and declared to fight me. He was not a high level one, I assume, since he would not make me much damage; but at some poin he ran away and called an ATST. I kept trying to fight him, even though he would remain in the ATSTs legs, and that thing ended up killing me.
ATST is still an huge asset to have in some PVP situations, and yes it can be taken down by fast by a squadron of rebel elite fighters but I would not like to have one on my butt on a one on one duel with an imp of about the same level.
The CURB might make it even more valuable if they don't nerf it.
So stop complaning you still have a very cool pet, the only factional pet worth it in game, which allows weak imp combat players (like crafters or entertainers) to get faction points (rebels can't).
I did not even complain about the fighting abilities of the ATST, when I could have asked that rebels be given something different to counterbalance that.
And I totally disagree about the idea that since the Empire is supposed to rule the world they should have tremendous advantage and be overpowered. That is not a movie, where would the fun be if the imps were as strong as in the movie? every one would be imp and you could kill and slaughter dozens of harmless rebels in you ATATs... The challenge for the devs is to create an illusion of imperial domination but preserve a balance in the game. Would you enjoy playing any game with your opponents having a huge advantage on you? in all sports and in all games the opposing parties are balanced. THis is were lies the challenge and the fun. You don't see football teams with unequal numbers of players, you don't see chess games with the white having more queens than the black etc...
But unlike Mikemonger says, I do not say the imps should not have that pet. I just say it is getting extremly unfair that the imps should have a huge advantage even out of the GCW context on neutral and rebel players.
And no, sorry, one player should not HAVE to go imp, change his faction, the roleplay identity and consistency of her toon, to be able to make 3 or 4 times more money than the others.
As to the solution that would nerf CH more, I totally exclude it, cause they have suffered enough nerf and sincerely, I think that this ability to pull higher paying missions is a good reward for the huge investment of barely useful skill points they put into their profession.
I beleive there are other ways to balance this problem. Making the ATST Special Force only is one solution, like Phaelyn suggested... also you could make the ATST work only for a limited period of time. Like X times pulling it out or using it... that way you make an investment in faction points that you need to make worth by hunting a lot with it. You would kinda trade faction points for credits or a significant advantage in little PVP skirmishs.
But sincerely, I noticed that I used to make from 30 to 35k credits per mission in the past. Now I see almost no interest in grouping in terms of cash, since I can pull 6k faction missions, and that is basically the share you now get in group missions.
And again it has nothing to do with the GVW.
Message Edited by canova on 03-29-2005 09:23 PM